Appendix talk:Given names derived from epithets of the Virgin Mary

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What the f-ck is this? Mglovesfun (talk) 22:21, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Deletion debate[edit]

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Alasdair (talkcontribs) is basically adding whatever he feels like. Certainly, at the very least the title is completely wrong because only the first column is Spanish (last time I checked, Basque, Latin, Catalan etc. are not Spanish) plus I can't see what possible relevance, more than that, even after starting a Beer Parlor discussion about this, nobody seems to know what it actually is? Are we talking about the Biblical Mary? I have no idea. Moving the page to User:Alasdair/Spanish names for María seems okay to me. Mglovesfun (talk) 08:05, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeah it looks like the various visages of the biblical Mary from around the world. While it includes other language columns, the content is primarily Spanish as "María name" column is in Spanish. It's sort of Wikipedia-ish since it deals with specific entities, but it might one day be a nice Wiktionary Appendix after some explanation is added, the formatting deals better with different name forms vs. translations, and it's converted to be English-centric. I'd say userspace is probably the right choice for now. --Bequw¢τ 01:02, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Keep and move to Appendix:Given names from Roman Catholic epithets of the Virgin Mary. I tried to clean it up. It's quite a sensible table, but impossible to understand from the title.
However, it's a very good idea that some appendices by Alasdair be moved to his own user space. He doesn't explain anything and he seems intent on making an appendix for given names in every language of the world. Here's a suggested list of appendices started by Alasdair that don't seem to profit anybody else at the moment:
  1. Appendix:Norwegian given names - pointless, just copied from Norwegian given name categories
  2. Appendix:Danish given names - pointless, copied from categories, and irritatingly half-done format
  3. Appendix:Estonian given names - stub, a handful of names copied from categories
  4. Appendix:Lower Sorbian names - stub, no references
  5. Appendix:West Frisian given names - stub without content
  6. Appendix:Given names with a certain meaning - illogical - where do you draw the line: names meaning "beauty", "sword", or what?
  7. Appendix:2 and 3 letter given names and Appendix:Doubling names don't seem quite sane to me either, but who am I to say?.
Could we make a rule that Alasdair should begin each one of his appendices in his user page space and only move it to the main space by community consent? Is it possible to make such rules - could we enforce it by moving the pages ourselves? It couldn't hurt Alasdair in my opinion. Not all the horrible given name appendices are his fault. Wikipedia dumps strange appendices here and anon additions are hard to control. But it's difficult even to begin cleaning up the appendices, or deleting the worst ones, as long as Alasdair keeps producing new ones without any explanation. --Makaokalani 13:27, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
I know he says it's "his passion" but I know he's just doing whatever he feels like rather thatn stuff that belongs here - and I was the one that reduced his block when Prince Kassad (rightly) blocked him, but I don't think my faith in him was as justified as I first though. Mglovesfun (talk) 15:25, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Delete 1-5 because they're pointless/redundant (entries that don't yet exist can be listed in the header of the corresponding category). Userspace 6 because it only deals with a limited # of qualities and languages. It could never be scaled well to be useful, and the better way to deal with the translations is on the individual entry pages. Userspace 7's until languages are clearly identified and dealt with. I think he'll get the hint when we enforce usefulness and quality standards. --Bequw¢τ 00:10, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
I felt sorry for Alasdair in the beginning too. He has never changed his editing style in spite of three years of protests, so it seems doubtful that he'll do it now either. The main thing is to find a way to remove content that is useless or embarrassing. Alasdair is 49 years old and quite tireless - he might go on for 30 more years. --Makaokalani 13:25, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
Makaokalani writes "He has never changed his editing style in spite of three years of protests". This is not true. I do changed my editing: I add references now in the appendices and I use the 'View editing (the 2nd button: In Dutch 'Bewerking ter controle bekijken') as much as needed. I also add comment (in Dutch 'Samenvatting') in the Comment box, before I saved the page. I don't want arguing with any of the administrators, but I seem like a red cloak in the eyes of a bull. Is this because I make so much (small) contributions that demands so much time of the administrators to monitor? In that case: I am sorry.

I am collecting personal names ('harvesting') from all over the world from all media and I list them in this beautiful place on the Internet. Maybe it is better to do this in a own 'working place' and put the definitive lists on its proper place in Wiktionary. It is true that there are appendices that have no content yet. I am not concentrating on one particular list, but I am adding the lists constantly. Last weekend I finished the Flemish appendix Given names. The content of the whole booklet is in the appendix. This weekend I will complete the Danish appendix and add the contents of my Danish name books. The Sorbian names are unique: I found them in an old encyclopedia in the University Library in Amsterdam. An Italian name lover asked for those names and I was started with two letters and I let it rest till I have more time to complete it. It is time that lacks me. A lot of contributions I make during my office hours. I am sad that you don't see the joy in the table 'Two and three letter names'. If I had more time I would make also a table of 4 and 5 letter names. Appendix:Given names with a certain meaning is the only appendix that makes no sense. I had an idea to see the names from its meaning and that was the beginning. It's funny, but not irrelevant. In Appendix:Names there are lots of Estonian names and I must add them in the appendix when I had time. The same for the (West) Frisian names. I like to add the content of the book in the reference in the appendix (that will cost me at least a week entering names, 4 hours a day). Please have patient with me and I am good willing.—This unsigned comment was added by Alasdair (talkcontribs) at 14:37, 4 September 2009 (UTC).

Alasdair, what I meant by your editing style is exactly what you are doing now: working faster and faster and adding more and more names, blind to all criticism. (And your boss ought to get you fired :-) We have 920 Norwegian and 620 Danish name entries, so who needs appendices any more? The missing names are already listed in Appendix:Names, so why must they be listed again? Also: I have seen you make so many mistakes in languages you don't know. Nobody has the time to check your appendices. Preliminary lists of names don't belong to the main namespace. Compare User:Gilgamesh/Tanakh names and User:Gilgamesh/Hebrew names.
Some of the old given name appendices might be kept if Alasdair can write good definitions to them. Meanwhile, let's decide the fate of the numbers 1-7 listed above. I support Bequw's suggestion. Moving them is OK with me too; anything to get them off the main space. Mglovesfun, what is your opinion? Any comments from others, please?--Makaokalani 13:11, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

(back on topic} The page has been moved to Appendix:Epithets of the Virgin Mary (Spanish) which is clearly wrong, because it's not about Spanish! I think just removing the Spanish is a good first step, but I still don't know what this page is or does, so I still see no reason to keep it. —This unsigned comment was added by Mglovesfun (talkcontribs).14:41, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

It's not about epithets, either, it's about given names in various languages based on the religious titles of Virgin Mary. The columns are in illogical order, but it's perfectly logical to group them together, and to give a translation table, since such names don't exist in English. (Dolores is an English name borrowed from Spanish, but Sorrows and Mary of the Sorrows are not.) My first reaction was, "Oh no! Of all the horrible appendices by Alasdair, Mglovesfun had to rfd the best one!"--Makaokalani 14:23, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
Now it has been moved to Appendix:Given names derived from epithets of the Virgin Mary. I spent over an hour putting the columns into a logical order. I cannot vouch for all the names, but it's a useful table.--Makaokalani 16:28, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
Kept as no consensus, since it's been cleaned up. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:36, 21 November 2009 (UTC)