Talk:矢
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The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for verification (permalink).
This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.
Can anyone back up the chikau and tsuraneru readings for this kanji? I've never seen this used to spell either verb (usually written 誓う and 連ねる / 列ねる respectively), and none of the dictionaries I have to hand list it either.
For that matter, is there a specific policy on rarely-used ateji? -- Eiríkr Útlendi | Tala við mig 23:28, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
- My dictionary (漢字源, →ISBN gives all 3: "や/ちかう/つなえる" as the readings of 矢 (under 意読.) Haplology 23:17, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
- Fair enough; neither Shogakukan edition I have lists these readings (大辞典 and the 新装版), Daijirin doesn't list them, and Nelson's Japanese-English Character Dictionary doesn't either. Idoku are by definition non-standard readings, and as such are outside normal usage patterns and must generally be indicated by using furigana. Is there any consensus on including idoku? If we include them, would it be possible to indicate that such readings are non-standard? I'd hate for students of Japanese to unwittingly learn kanji in non-standard ways and then wonder why no one understands what they're writing. Just learning the Jōyō readings is enough trouble. :) -- Eiríkr Útlendi | Tala við mig 18:43, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
- As an addendum, ateji usage can be wildly inventive, such as a request to formally name a child 騎士, usually pronounced kishi and meaning "knight", but to be pronounced Naito. Consequently, I don't think ateji should generally be included unless their use is pretty common / well-known. (Some other interesting examples in Japanese here) -- Eiríkr Útlendi | Tala við mig 21:14, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
- To reply way too late, probably we should defer idoku readings until later until we have a high quality set of kanji pages with normal readings. I'd recommend modifying the kanji template to indicate idoku readings in the future. The dictionary I quoted is like the OED of kanji in that it has wildly rare stuff that nobody knows in the real world. If I'm not mistaken this is similar to the issue down at Japanese kanji entries and classical vs. modern readings in the Beer Parlour. Keep the good readings and build a fence around them Haplogy 02:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
- As an addendum, ateji usage can be wildly inventive, such as a request to formally name a child 騎士, usually pronounced kishi and meaning "knight", but to be pronounced Naito. Consequently, I don't think ateji should generally be included unless their use is pretty common / well-known. (Some other interesting examples in Japanese here) -- Eiríkr Útlendi | Tala við mig 21:14, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
- Resolved, AFAICT. - -sche (discuss) 03:22, 1 March 2012 (UTC)