Talk:阿凡達

(deprecated template usage) avatar gives this as a Mandarin translation of "digital representation of a person. Fugyoo 09:15, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

It was my translation. At the time of adding it I remember seeing it in this context but now I can't find it. It's all about the movie. Will check it later or ask other people. --Anatoli 09:38, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

The following information has failed Wiktionary's verification process.

Failure to be verified means that insufficient eligible citations of this usage have been found, and the entry therefore does not meet Wiktionary inclusion criteria at the present time. We have archived here the disputed information, the verification discussion, and any documentation gathered so far, pending further evidence.
Do not re-add this information to the article without also submitting proof that it meets Wiktionary's criteria for inclusion.

---

阿凡達

This is a word, but only in Mandarin I believe, being the title of the movie "Avatar" in that language. Not, as the suspicious IP user who has been known on many occasions to invent words, of the Japanese word あぼんたつ, abontatsu, or あはんたつ, ahantatsu, which would be the logical way to read this word if it did exist. Searching for both the string "阿凡達" "あぼんたつ" in Google gets 40 results, and just looking at the first page, all in the context of the movie in China or Taiwan, and all roughly saying "this looks like abantatsu at first" rather than using that reading seriously. I cannot say anything about the etymology, "From Sanskrit अवतार (avatāra)." Haplology 18:17, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, google:"阿凡達とは" gets exactly one hit, on an auto-generated page where the body text basically says "there's nothing here by that title." Searching for google:"阿凡達は" gets 36 hits at the moment; I just went through them all cursorily, and every single hit is about the movie. Most of these pages specifically say that "阿凡達 is the Chinese title of the movie 'Avatar'", and almost all of the pages spell out the word additionally in either katakana or Latin letters, likely out of a (probably correct) assumption that most Japanese readers would not know how to pronounce this word.

FWIW, the title of this movie in Japanese is アバター, as noted in the JA WP article: w:ja:アバター (映画).

Moreover, the EN WP article w:Avatar links to the JA WP article w:ja:アヴァターラ, which does not contain the term 阿凡達 anywhere.

And in addition, 阿凡達 is missing from both the JA WT (ja:阿凡達) and JA WP (w:ja:阿凡達), and searching on both sites comes up with nothing.

Combine that with the fact that I cannot find 阿凡達 in any of my Japanese dictionaries, either bilingual J-E or monolingual JA-only, I would strongly say that this word is not Japanese.

If someone can add the Chinese entries, that'd be peachy. -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 23:05, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Are you sure this is Chinese? The only instance that it's used in Chinese is the phonetic translation of the movie Avatar. The Hinduism use of the word avatar is translated into either 下凡 or 化身 (watch any TV series/movie that depicts the Monkey King, then you'd know what I mean). Jamesjiao → ^{T ◊ C} 23:30, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Even better! So this is a purely bogus term. Joy! Well, not entirely bogus, I guess, since it's apparently the name of the movie. James, would you be comfortable adding the Mandarin sense for 阿凡達 as the movie title? Or am I misled by what I've seen online, and this isn't even the proper word for the movie title? -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 23:57, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Can it also mean "avatar" as in the sense of a forum picture? I've seen it used that way but it may be influenced by the movie title or being just one of the transliteration of the English "avatar". It seems like what it is - a phonetical transliteration into Mandarin - all three characters are often used for this purpose. If that's the case, it could be used as a colloquial word for "avatar" in various senses for people not knowing the proper Mandarin word - 阿凡达 = 天神下凡. Worth an entry, anyway, IMHO. --Anatoli 00:11, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

No. Not as far as I know. I just randomly registered on a few forums in both simplified and traditional Chinese. All of the use the word 头像/頭像 (lit: image of the head) to describe an avatar. Jamesjiao → ^{T ◊ C} 01:53, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

As for the colloquial use of 阿凡达 in the Buddism/Hinduism context. I highly doubt that. The prerequisite is you have to be pretty good at English and pretty bad at Chinese to make a mistake like this. You have to remember a native speaker like me would grow up watching Chinese TV series, so even if someone decided to invent the term 阿凡达 for the movie, there is no way for me to make a connection to the religious concept without knowing the term for 天神下凡 in English. Hope I've not confused you. Jamesjiao → ^{T ◊ C} 06:30, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm happy for either/both of you two to create a Mandarin entry, but the Japanese one has got to go. Would you be so kind as to add at least a Mandarin stub entry so we can get rid of the Japanese without leaving the whole page empty?  :) -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 00:21, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

I have created a stub for both trad./simpl. to be verified later for senses, removed the Japanese section. --Anatoli 00:34, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, Anatoli! -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 00:50, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Um Wiktionary doesn't appear to include any other film titles. Fugyoo 14:16, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

@Fugyoo -- good point. Do we nix this entry in its entirety, then?

@Jamesjiao -- Could you check the Chinese translations at avatar#Translations? That list still includes 阿凡達, but it sounds like it should be deleted, if I understand you correctly. -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 16:24, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

I have taken the liberty to remove both entries. If anyone has any objections, let me know. Jamesjiao → ^{T ◊ C} 21:56, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

I object, as attestation of this term seems possible, and this is RFV rather than RFD. google books:"阿凡達" gives some hits, often as "《阿凡达》" but not always, as here. Furthermore, the finding that this term refers to Avatar movie but not to avatar as a common noun is a lexicographical finding worth documenting--that is a RFD consideration, though. If "Avatar" were the name of a movie such that there would be no common noun "avatar", I would support inclusion of the movie title, as that would be a single-word attestable name with interesting pronunciation and etymology. --Dan Polansky 10:49, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

FWIW there are a couple of google books hits that predate the film - they appear to be part of company names. Fugyoo 16:41, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

@Dan - I'm fine with that; the number of book hits does show sufficient use to merit inclusion. The question now is whether the meaning is just the title of a movie, or if the term is used in other ways as well. Does including 阿凡達／阿凡达 also mean including terms like (deprecated template usage) Ponyo, as found at google books:"Ponyo"? (And, incidentally, thank you for cluing me into the (deprecated template usage) b.g.c. template.)

@Fugyoo - Are you okay with including movie titles?

@James and other sinophone editors - I looked at a couple of the Google Books links, and must confess that my Chinese reading skills are not up to the task. Could someone read through a few of the google books:"阿凡達" hits and see if the uses of 阿凡達／阿凡达 imply some meaning beyond just the title of the movie Avatar? -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 16:53, 19 October 2011 (UTC)