Talk:Delčevo

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What are the criteria for inclusion? I am aware that this is not a big city, but it is one of only 34 urban settlements (towns and cities) in the Republic of Macedonia. The rest are villages. Hence, I decided to list all of them here. But if in spite of this, this is still contrary to the criteria, then let it be deleted. --B. Jankuloski 01:58, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

This discussion is too big for one entry. The discussion is in the Requests for verification. --EncycloPetey 02:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

RFV discussion[edit]

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We've had a whole run of Macedonian towns and cities. I picked this one because it has non-standard (for English) diacriticals. --EncycloPetey 01:28, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

  • As an administrator you should be well aware that there are many entries here with such diacriticals. Some langauges have to use diacriticals, as it is their only way of writing words in the Roman alhpabet. Macedonian is transcribed by a standard system and, if you look at the English Wikipedia entries for Macedonian (and many other languages), towns, names etc, they all stand like that. There is no other way to write them.

As for the large number of the Macedonian towns and cities, I thought I may put them all here, since there are only 34 of them in total. The rest are rural places (i.e. villages and hamlets). If this understanding of mine however, is against the criteria of Wiktionary, feel free to delete the ones you deem "insignificant". --B. Jankuloski 02:36, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

The question is twofold: (1) Whatever the Macedonian transcription, is this spelling demonstrably used as English? (2) The perennial question of place names. I wish I could tell you what our policy is on including place names, but we never seem to pin down what it is we allow, or how and where it should be entered. I'm seeking the opinion of the community in a general way, using this specific locale merely as a point of discussion for the wider issue. --EncycloPetey 02:51, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Yes, that is what I assumed as well. I am just pointing out to the community that this transcription is the only way of reffering to Macedonian placenames in English, and that this is indeed ubiquitously used in all Wikipedia articles, as well as the Web in general. --B. Jankuloski 07:18, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
google books:"in|to|near|of|into|from Delčevo" is telling.​—msh210 17:16, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, Delčevo is used in English, and Delcevo too. Lmaltier 18:08, 30 June 2009 (UTC) It's true that Delcevo seems to be the usual spelling in English (1 hit for the above request, 58 hits for the same request using Delcevo), except in Wikipedia (4 pages mention Delcevo, 25 mention Delčevo). It's easy to find other uses of Delčevo on the Web, though. Lmaltier 19:51, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

  • Yes, but that is only because people do not bother writing it properly. Many non-Macedonians do not actually know what the proper spelling is, and that is mainly due to the fact that and Macedonians themselves either have Macedonian (Cyrillic) or English on their keyboards, and very rarely the approapriate keyboard with diacriticals, i.e. that they obviously don't bother telling anyone about the correct way. I may suggest inviting users and admins from mk Wiki to testify to that. In any case, have a look at w:Romanization of Macedonian, I think it might be of use. --B. Jankuloski 21:04, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
    • Delcevo is the usual spelling in books written in English. The most correct spelling of a word in a language is the spelling usually used in books written in this language. Therefore, Delcevo seems to be the correct spelling in English (but I agree that Delčevo cannot be considered as incorrect). Lmaltier 21:36, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
    • [e/c] As Lmaltier just wrote, we care about how a word is actually used in the language we're claiming it's in. By "used" we mean used in durably archived sources, not including Wikipedia. Please see WT:CFI.​—msh210 21:39, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

RFV failed, entry deleted. To the above, I'd also add that our criteria for inclusion currently allow placenames only if they're "used attributively, with a widely understood meaning". —RuakhTALK 22:15, 15 December 2009 (UTC)