Talk:I'll see you and raise you
Is this "X and Y" placeholder format acceptable on Wiktionary? Equinox 22:16, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
- I hope so, because otherwise I don't know how to handle this entry. Please click "entry" and then "What links here" and you'll see a list of special cases which all redirct here, such as "I'll see your". It would be a bad use of effort to make separate entries for each of those, and very hard to keep them synchronized if we did. Language Lover 22:19, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
- I dislike this solution, but it seems to be the best we can come up with. It would be more precise if the placeholders indicated grammatical function ("NP1", "VP", "Adj", "Adv", "Det"), but they would be even less searchable and intelligible to normal users. When applicable the "one", "someone", and "something" placeholders are nice to those who dislike formulas and mathematics. DCDuring TALK 15:45, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
- I would hazard that, at least in this case, see and raise have special senses individually; for instance, couldn't you "see a bet" (accept it) without mentioning any raising? Even if that is the case, "see [amount] and raise [amount]" is pretty much a fixed phrase, and I agree we can't do a lot about it when Wiktionary's entries are more "freeform" than semantically oriented (and the latter would need a lot of expertise, since I'm sure even the career academics wouldn't agree on the best approach to that). I wasn't trying to kill the entry on the basis of "X and Y", but on the other hand it would be disingenuous to think anyone would actually look it up in its current format. Equinox 17:48, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
- "see" and "raise" individually have pure semantics the same as together in "see and raise". We quickly get into pragmatics, which I persist in holding do not normally belong in Wiktionary, especially for phrases. If we could be a grammar and usage reference, perhaps, but I think that is not an easy thing for a wiki. DCDuring TALK 19:10, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
- When I made this entry, I knew noone would look it up in this form. The entry is just a convenient place for all the look-up-able things (like I'll see your) to point to. People could very well look those up, and it would be clunky to give each a separate entry. Language Lover 05:48, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
What is the "action" implied by the phrase (how much is put down)?
I arrived here wanting to use the well known phrase, but not knowing it well enough - the perfect use of a dictionary. Searching "C you and raise you", I appreciate the corrective value in finding this page.
However, discovering "see" instead of "C", and considering the examples, I was confused. I had assumed "C" was etymologically short for something like "Counter" or "Capture", reasonably implying one would "match" the bet and then raise it. However, the word "see" strongly implies no action, and the examples well allow that interpretation. "See" leaves ambiguous meaning, which I hope someone of knowledge might resolve.
Does "see your 10 and raise you 20" mean I lay down "20" or "30" (first matching, not just "seeing", the first 10)? Can I "see your 10 and raise you 5"? No such example if offered, but even so would be a roundabout way to clarify. I am sure this is obvious to you poker folk... and that is why you don't need this page. For me, I dug about for a bit on the net and came to no resolution, and then considered it should be left to a more knowledgeable source. Can someone address and clarify the ambiguity "see" raises?
Csmwww 21:32, 2 May 2011 (UTC)