Talk:Tabasco sauce

RFV

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for verification.

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What is this? If it is a brand name, it should be proper noun, shouldn't it? What is really the brand name here? Is it "Tabasco sauce" or "Tabasco"? Is there a common noun "tabasco sauce"? --Hekaheka 14:18, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

My feeling is it's a genericized trademark, though I don't have any strong feelings about whether it should be capitalized in that usage. I can certainly imagine saying "Please pass the Tabasco sauce" to a friend I'm eating dinner with, even if the sauce in question is not Tabasco™ brand pepper sauce made by the McIlhenny Company of Avery Island, Louisiana. —Angr 15:44, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Why is this here? Mglovesfun (talk) 20:37, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

With "here" I suppose you mean RfV, not Wiktionary. It's here basically because we need to verify whether "Tabasco sauce" is a noun or a proper noun, or both. Current POS is "Noun", but the definition appears to be for "Proper noun". If it is a common noun, current definition looks more like an etymology.--Hekaheka 21:26, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Even if Tabasco is a brand name, Tabasco sauce cannot be called a proper noun... Lmaltier 06:50, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Why? DCDuring TALK 12:58, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Because the difference between a common noun and a proper noun is related to the sense. The POS must be the same in Tabasco sauce, béchamel and gravy. Lmaltier 18:51, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

What is the nature of the relationship between the difference and the sense? Is the POS the same for "Ron" and "my brother-in-law", which are semantically identical and both hyponyms of "man", just as Tabasco and bechamel are hyponyms of sauce? DCDuring TALK 00:55, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Have a look at proper noun. Lmaltier 06:34, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

I have. I was hoping to be able to develop criteria to add to Appendix:English_proper_nouns#Proper_noun_as_Part_of_Speech_in_Wiktionary or insert in Wiktionary:English proper nouns. DCDuring TALK 12:20, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

I made a new version of the entry based on the assumption that "Tabasco sauce" is a common noun. The "official" way to write the brand name seems to be "TABASCO® Sauce". --Hekaheka 13:32, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

That it's capitalized in promotional material (including on product labels) does not mean that that's the official spelling of the brand name.​—msh210℠ (talk) 16:17, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

I am not a lawyer, but I have the impression that brand names are almost always in all-caps. eBay, for example, has [a trademark on http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4004:q1ifp1.4.32 EBAY], not on "eBay"; but its user agreement and privacy policy and so on, which amount to user-facing legal documents, all use "eBay". So in the general case, I don't think there's any such thing as an "official" capitalization, one way or the other. —Ruakh_TALK 16:34, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Ok. According to company's own web site [1] the trade mark is TABASCO®. Thus "Tabasco sauce" must be a common noun and the definition should be something else than "A trademark of..." --Hekaheka 21:02, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

I think it's Tabasco, brand name of a sauce. Even if the manufacturer never calls it that, people do. Tabasco sauce doesn't meet the idiomaticity requirement, I don't think.​—msh210℠ (talk) 21:06, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

"Tabasco sauce" should be deleted then? --Hekaheka 21:29, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

IMO.​—msh210℠ (talk) 16:39, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Surely not. Tabasco sauce isn't a "sauce" of "tabasco". ---> Tooironic 13:04, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

I've moved the information to Tabasco, deleted the content of Tabasco sauce as RFV-failed as uncited, but left a redirect pointing to Tabasco. How's that? - -sche (discuss) 00:26, 18 August 2011 (UTC)