Talk:even

Evenly even

"Evenly even" and "evenly odd" are old mathematics terms meaning, respectively, if I remember correctly, giving an even or an odd number when divisible by two. These definitions need to be confirmed. -- Paul G 14:50, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Confirmed, sort of. These terms are older and I can't track down an authorative reference. Mathworld uses "doubly even" for "evenly even" and I would think modern mathematicians would tend to recast in terms of remainder mod 4.

One random source on the web (http://www.domcentral.org/study/ashley/arts/arts301.htm) gives these definitions:

• Evenly even: 0 mod 4 (4, 8, 12, 16 ...)
• Oddly even: 2 mod 4 (2, 6, 10, 14 ...)
• Evenly odd: (2n + 1)2^k, or basically every even number not a power of 2 (6, 10, 12, 14, 18 ...).

But another random source (http://www.bendigo.latrobe.edu.au/sae/arts/tradcosmos/maths1.html) gives "Evenly even" and "evenly odd" as you have above.

In any case, these usages seem to belong more to numerology than mathematics, though they were once considered mathematical terms (and for that matter, mathematics and numerology used to have much more overlap). -dmh 15:27, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Usage note on Etymology 2

Yesterday I added the following note on usage to the second "etymology":

1. Usage note: Sometimes even is used rather in the opposite way to the above. For instance, it is proper to say "I didn't even make it through the front door", but one also hears:

   Did you even make it through the front door?

   Here making it through the front door is thought of as a minimal accomplishment, not a maximal one.

   The word even is often placed in what is technically the wrong place: "Assuming the perpetrator can even be found, such cases often hinge entirely on personal testimony" (New Scientist, 12 July, 2014, p. 16) instead of "Even if the perpetrator can be found...". Or:

   That was before I was even born.

   instead of "That was even before I was born".

This was immediately reverted by a user named user:Kephir, who objects to what I wrote, as well as to the formatting. I would like to defend what I said. As for the formatting, that is certainly not grounds for reverting!

If someone was planning to go into the headquarters of some corporation and throw a pie into the face of the CEO, one might ask him afterwards, "Did you even throw the pie into his face?" That would be correct usage. It's a question corresponding to the statement "I even threw the pie into his face." But to ask "Did you even get in the front door?" is the opposite. It corresponds to the statement "I didn't even get in the front door." I wonder whether Kephir sees the difference between the two questions.

In other languages I know, the second question would not use the same word to translate "even" as in the first question. For instance, in French, one would not say, "Est-ce que tu as même réussi à entrer dans le batiment?"

The other two examples I gave are not so much examples of using the word "even" when it shouldn't be used, but of putting it in the wrong place. (Note that I am using the word "wrong" here for simplicity, not because I'm trying to make people conform to what I think is right.) For instance, in the example with "perpetrator", the sentence is not saying "Assuming that the perpetrator is not only identified, but even found...". It is saying, "Even if one assumes that the perpetrator is found...". And in the example with "born", what is extreme is the point in time, not the birth. So technically the "even" should go before "before". Again, look at how this would be said in other languages. You wouldn't say "C'était avant que je sois même né", you would say "C'était même avant que je sois né'.

Eric Kvaalen (talk) 12:49, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Missing senses?

Chambers 1908 has adverb senses "so much as" and "still". Are we missing anything? Equinox ◑ 21:12, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

RFV discussion: May 2019

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even

"Also". When does even mean "also"? Equinox ◑ 21:09, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Speedied. Added by User:Osbri, who has a long history of adding inexplicable and utterly wrong senses to basic English words. Chuck Entz (talk) 21:57, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

When did I put that? And if I did put that, maybe I was thinking that when some show or say "I even did this", they would think "I also did this". Osbri (talk) 11:15, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

"I even did this" would be sense 2 ("In reality; implying an extreme example in the case mentioned, as compared to the implied reality"): e.g. I claim that you are lazy; you say "I'm not lazy because I did all the expected work; I even did some extra work afterwards". It isn't the same as a neutral "also". Equinox ◑ 11:16, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

I think I was thinking that 'even' would show or mean sense 1 of 'also'. But I think I understand. Osbri (talk) 11:47, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

even as

Isn't even as merely a SoP? --Backinstadiums (talk) 11:03, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Adverb: evenly

The road ran even over the fields, yet I am never sure whether a certain verb is being used as a linking verb--Backinstadiums (talk) 19:26, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

not even: SoP

not even: SoP? --Backinstadiums (talk) 17:22, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Even then/now

In spite of (something): Even then, after hours of talking about this, he still has his doubts. --Backinstadiums (talk) 22:17, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

@Backinstadiums: "Even last week he was still unwell." Clear SoP... again. Equinox ◑ 03:03, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

@Equinox: Notice that in my example even then is used with a present, ...he still does.... Would it work in yours? --Backinstadiums (talk) 08:56, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

You need to stop reading textbooks and learn the tiniest tiny part about the language. Your comment is stupid and wrong. Equinox ◑ 09:32, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

I know that the above user adds a lot of things on talk pages, but not all of it is useless. The quoted sentence isn't clear to me either and I think his comment was far from stupid. It should either be "even now" + present tense or "even then" + past or future tense. "Even then" + present would only make sense if it's a recurring thing. Is that how you interpret it? 88.65.40.9 12:32, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Slang (?) use

On the internet I read things like "What is even this?" or "What even happened here?" Doesn't seem to fit any of our definitions, does it? Seems to be synonymous with "the hell". It's been around for a few years at least. I don't have much exposure to spoken English, so I can't say if it's colloquial or youth slang or what. 88.65.40.9 12:39, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

RFD discussion: September–November 2023

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even

Chinese. Should it be considered as a Cantonese term? Seems only to be a code-switching.--Mahogany115 (talk) 13:57, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Keep. Not a code-switching as the meaning is different; the word "even" by itself in English does not mean “even though; even if”. – wpi (talk) 16:17, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

• RFD kept. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 15:55, 7 November 2023 (UTC)