Talk:island chain

Deletion debate

The following information passed a request for deletion.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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It's an [[island]] [[chain]]. Mglovesfun (talk) 07:17, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

If this is a sum of parts, why is there no emphasis on "chain"? In, say, "long chain" there is. Does n't that make island chain a compound?

Jcwf 04:36, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

In a word, no Mglovesfun (talk) 18:42, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

It definitely has many markers of set-phrase-ishness. We don't/can't speak of a "tree chain", or a "hill chain", or a "lake chain", although we can obviously speak of a "chain of lakes" et al. The only other landform that collocates with "chain" here seems to be "mountain". Coming at it from the other side, a lei is a chain of flowers, associated with certain islands, but no one would ever call it an "island chain". Nor would one be likely to apply the term to a length of chain from Guernsey. Looks to me like this is compositional but idiomatic, which is to say we can say something useful about it, but not a lot. Weak keep, with a view to the "Rocking chair" and "Easier said"[no, not this one; "Fried egg", I guess] tests in WT:SURVIVOR. -- Visviva 07:36, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

FWIW, the MI in COCA is 5.21, which is higher than "kitchen island" and "heat island" but lower than "island nation", "island lore" or "desert island". Hmmm... -- Visviva 07:36, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't think this is like rocking chair. Any chair can rock, but I think that island chain only refers to a chain of islands, ergo delete as unidiomatic. Mglovesfun (talk) 18:42, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, the "rocking chair test" in WT:SURVIVOR is supposed to relate to unusual patterns of stress and intonation (as per Jcwf above). You're right, though, that rocking chair would probably be kept for other reasons, regardless. -- Visviva 02:49, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Keep for that very reason. DAVilla 05:52, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Weak keep per Visviva. --Dan Polansky 11:08, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Likewise weak keep, although perhaps stronger than some others. A chain in every other usage I can think of has objects that are physically or chemically connected to each other. An island chain is arranged as if they were connected, but without any such physical connection. This seems to make the meaning idiomatic, at least to me. --EncycloPetey 12:59, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

The islands in an island chain are usually connected by an underwater ridge, very much the same way as mountains of a mountain chain. --Hekaheka 14:36, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

A chain of correct answer[s]? A chain of ideas? Of mountains? Nah, I still think this should be deleted. Mglovesfun (talk) 13:59, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

I would expect a chain of mountains to be connected at least by a higher elevation region at their bases. I would expect a chain of ideas to have a thematic connection. I can't imagine ever saying "chain of correct answer". --EncycloPetey 20:24, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Typo for answers. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:51, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Are islands in a chain also connected by higher elevation between them?​—msh210℠ 16:31, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Just as one definition of star is "point of light in the night sky", at least one definition of island chain has to relate to surface (above-surface !) appearances. This idea must be after some development of cartography, I would have thought, but before extensive knowledge of underwater topography. FWIW, "chain of islands" (1749) seems to predate "island chain" (c. 1810). "Island chain" is only about twice as frequent at COCA as "chain of islands".

delete. This doesn't seem like much of an idiom to me. DCDuring TALK 17:06, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Delete unidiomatic.​—msh210℠ 18:05, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

• Strong keep. As noted above, this is not necessarily a physically connected "chain", and certainly some islands are counted as being in chains which have in fact no physical connection. If you were a non-English speaker, and read that someone had gone to see an island chain, would you be inclined to think that they had visited a group of islands, or gone to see a piece of jewelry made from links that happened to come from an island? bd2412 T 21:53, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

I think all land is physically connected, unless the island is literally afloat in the ocean. Mglovesfun (talk) 13:37, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Kept Mglovesfun (talk) 20:32, 9 March 2010 (UTC)