Talk:keeper

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From RFC[edit]

Which of the following does the "football" tag refer to: soccer, american football, rugby union, australian rules football, rugby league, gaelic football? — Hippietrail 20:27, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it's Gaelic football. Widsith 17:10, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Damn those Gaelic football purists who staunchly believe only football should be used as the name for their sport! I should just be bold and rename the whole tag to prevent further confusion. — Hippietrail 17:15, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Um, please be reasonable. {{soccer}} is the only un-ambiguous name for non-US football. And American football is only called "football," unlike soccer. --Connel MacKenzie T C 20:02, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

um, but to most of the world, including a lot of the non-English-native-speaking world, "soccer" is called "football". US-rules football is, well, like Rugby football, or Aussie-rules football: a foreign curiousity Robert Ullmann 19:41, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
This is the English Wiki. Only English is considered English. All other languages (a lot of the non-English-native-speaking world) are foreign languages and are only provided by way of translations. For this term, we only need to consider what it is called in GB, the U.S. and Canada, and Australia/New Zealand. —Stephen 19:50, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
okay ... but in for example Kenya, the official language is English, while more people speak Swahili and a vast number of tribal languages; and it is football. As in FIFA World Cup Football. So there is lots of English in places not US-CA-GB-AU-NZ. A native speaker of Swahili who does not speak English (or not much) will use the English word "football" in a Swahili sentence since there is no Swahili word. (You can say, e.g., kucheza mpira, play ball) Similarily someone speaking Luo, etc. It is very common to include English words, or French words in Francophone african countries, when speaking tribal languages with small vocabularies. I've heard the English word "football" in a lot of Swahili conversations in the last month! Robert Ullmann 20:28, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
That simply means that "football" is Swahili for soccer (probably noun class 9). The Russian for soccer is футбол as well. There is nothing unusual about foreign languages using words that we do not use. For 300 million Americans, football in the sense of soccer is completely foreign. For our many people, soccer is the only name of the game, and football is another game altogether. Americans love football, but we generally cannot bear to watch soccer. —Stephen 20:54, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
think you're missing my point: (unlike your Russian example) it is being used as an English language word, not a Swahili word. If my wife asks me what I want to eat, and I say "ninataka grilled cheese sandwich" because there simply isn't any useful Swahili for "grilled cheese sandwich" it doesn't make "grilled cheese sandwich" into a Swahili word (term). It is still English. This is very common. You won't (and in fact don't) find "football" in a Swahili dictionary: it is English. And we can't bear watching US-rules football. They keep stopping the clock ... Robert Ullmann 21:08, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Can we use (football, soccer)? I think we'll all be happy ... also: we need (cricket) short form of wicket-keeper Related terms should have salad keeper and wicket keeper can go away. More importantly: I was reluctant to just add cricket because it would change the numbering for translations, but they are already messed up, (6) is Quidditch Keeper ... Italian (6) belongs with (4), Portugese (6) should be (2). I think. Probably calls for ttbc tagging. Sigh. Is it okay with others if I try to edit this? Robert Ullmann 11:42, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

with some advice, I have waded in ... using (football, soccer) on the observation that there are a lot of people who know it under one term or the other, but not both. We could always resort to (sports) as in goalkeeper but I think this is okay? Robert Ullmann 12:41, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Using (football, soccer) is the worst possible solution because it now indicates to every person to whom some other sport is called "football" that terms marked such apply both to their sport and to soccer. As far as I can see the only workable way is just plain old (soccer) - or, with some work, personalized tags. Now if there is some acceptable "disambiguated" term such as "FIFA soccer" - that might also work - is there such a term? Saying that the sport is known as football in your area is insufficient - you must show that the term soccer is unknown - not just less popular. Somebody might put a request on the Grease pit for a personalizable football/soccer tag. — Hippietrail 05:51, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree with you. The only question for me was how widely known the word soccer is. Since we were discussing Swahili, I looked in a modern Swahili dictionary and both football and soccer are defined as soka (noun class 9), soccer ball = mpira ya soka (noun class 3/4). I think soccer, even where it is not as popular, is almost univerally understood by native English-speakers, and probably by soccer fans of every land. —Stephen 08:11, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

User:Sannab has brilliantly rendered the question moot (US) by combining the goalkeeper and wicket-keeper sense! I've removed the RFC tag. If you dis-agree, just put it back. Robert Ullmann 09:38, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Collins Word Exchange also takes this approach.
Interestingly, I found there is an American football sense too, so I added it and tagged it "American football" even though no American would ever call that sport anything other than "football". — Hippietrail 00:55, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Requests for verification - kept[edit]

Kept. See archived discussion of July 2008. 07:05, 28 July 2008 (UTC)