Talk:loaded dice

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loaded dice

Sum of parts, at least as it stands now. — Pingku^dimmi 13:27, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

• Keep. Idiomatic because, of the many possible senses of "loaded", the only one that would be correct in relation to loaded dice is that of being designed to influence the outcome. Although the definition at loaded currently specifies dice, that only evidences the commonality of this collocation; in fact, any game of chance can be said to be "loaded" in the same way. bd2412 T 17:47, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Other lexicographers have not followed Webster's 1913 in having this as a separate entry. Roulette wheels and coins can also be "loaded". As these are the principal analog randomizers and as this sense (unfairness in randomizers achieved by physical manipulation) applies to all three, I don't think BD's argument stands without, at the very least, some quantitative support or some supporting arguments. DCDuring TALK 01:31, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

I've been looking at this, and I think the idiom is more often expressed as "the dice are loaded (against someone)" (and having nothing to do with games) and other forms rather than "loaded dice." Doing a straight search on the latter, I had trouble identifying the idiom, which I suspect more properly belongs with the verb (deprecated template usage) load and adjective (deprecated template usage) loaded. There are also instances of expressions like "the dice are more loaded," which seems only to be used figuratively. — Pingku^dimmi 01:31, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Delete, apparently. Though I'd always considered this idiomatic until this very moment. --Mglovesfun (talk) 09:05, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Then delete.​—msh210℠ (talk) 15:44, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Deleted, majority verdict. Mglovesfun (talk) 19:33, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

RFV discussion

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loaded dice

Rfv-sense An unfair advantage obtained by manipulating rules or insider influence.

See also cited figurative (or metaphorical) usages for the adjective loaded (“weighted asymmetrically and so biased”), and the archived rfd for loaded dice on the talk page (not strictly applicable to this sense). — Pingku^dimmi 14:37, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

This is not difficult to cite,

• And the Market News, as well as other city papers anxious to sell space, helped to swell the bubble until Rockhaven became one of the loaded dice all speculators love to play with.
• The riverboat gambler's most intriguing insight on the stock market is that all investors use loaded dice if they only knew it.
• Slave states have always won. They have played with loaded dice—loaded with Slavery.
• Fate, on the other hand, refers to events that fall out in a manner predetermined by a higher power (the loaded dice of the gods).
• From the beginning they were playing against the natives with loaded dice. But in economic competition even a trifling advantage has a cumulative effect...
• In 1973 ABC opted for more of the album market, enlarging its vision to include the more specialized philosophy of artist development, the dominant ideology of the record industry of the 1970s. With loaded dice a few throws are as good as 20 honest ones.
• The jury (to change metaphors) would dispense the justice that had so far eluded them, equalizing the odds in a world of loaded dice.
• In the contest to wear down the patience of the missionary, the Turk has always played with loaded dice.

It may be necessary to strike the word "unfair" to make some of these cites fit, but they are still a separate metaphorical meaning. While I am here, I don't see the point of making the reader look up "loaded" and "dice" separately to try and divine the normal meaning from the multiple senses at both entries. If this is kept, I think that the in-entry definition should be restored. SpinningSpark 17:22, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Here's a fairly straightforward cite:

• 1972, Melville Jean Herskovits, Cultural Relativism: Perspectives in Cultural Pluralism, page 56:

  In fact, the need for a cultural-relativistic point of view has become apparent because of the realization that there is no way to play this game of making judgments across cultures except with loaded dice.

Cheers! bd2412 T 03:44, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Passed. I added two of Spinningspark’s citations to the entry. — Ungoliant ^(Falai) 12:17, 4 October 2013 (UTC)