Talk:organisation

Tea room discussion

Note: the below discussion was moved from the Wiktionary:Tea room.

Will I get my knuckles rapped if I simplify this waste of space to just "alternative spelling of|organization" ? SemperBlotto 16:01, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, as a UK-spelling, it also carries a different pronunciation, so that much at least must remain. --EncycloPetey 17:08, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure I agree. Specifically, I'm not sure the geographic distributions of the spellings always align perfectly with the geographic distributions of the pronunciations; so I think it might be better to cover all the pronunciations at one entry, with appropriate accent labels, than to try to split them by spelling. —Ruakh_TALK 19:26, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Huh? Because you're not sure they always align perfectly, we should mash everything together? We have no way on a single page to clearly point out that spelling A and pronunciation X belong together while spelling B and pronunciation Y belong together. So, by shoving all the information to one page, we necessarily lose a key piece of information. --EncycloPetey 19:38, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Even if you're right, Ruakh, and you usually are, I suspect that each spelling goes more with some pronunciations, which should be listed first. In any event, we seem all agreed that at least the rest of the info — except pronunciation — can be on one page. Right?—msh210℠ 19:43, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate your focus on points of agreement. :-)   Yes, I think we do all seem so agreed. —Ruakh_TALK 02:28, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

OK - I have merged the translations into "organization" and removed all the definitions, making it into an alternative spelling. Perhaps it needs a usage note to explain that although it might once have been a UK/Commonwealth spelling, it isn't used much these days. SemperBlotto 11:11, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

The (deprecated template usage) -sation spelling is still common in the UK, and (deprecated template usage) organization is only a little more than twice as common as (deprecated template usage) organisation. † ﴾^(u):Raifʻhār ^(t):Doremítzwr﴿ 21:20, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

This figure seems to include all languages (French, etc.), not only English. Lmaltier 21:27, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

So, which languages share the (deprecated template usage) -zation spellings and which languages share the (deprecated template usage) -sation spellings? † ﴾^(u):Raifʻhār ^(t):Doremítzwr﴿ 23:15, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

I stronly disprove the belittling of the official spelling of the word in the most ancient homeland of the English language as alternative spelling and I concur completely with EncycloPetey. I suggest moving the definitions and translations from organization to organisation and leaving in organization the remark alternative or regional spelling. I have numerous English language textbooks with s as the only admissible spelling and they are meant to be used internationally! s is furthermore the more widespread spelling, since the Commonwealth outnumbers by far the USA in inhabitants. Bogorm 20:16, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

(1) No one plans to "belittle" the UK spelling. (2) The <-ization> spelling is more ancient than the <-isation> spelling, so you're basically arguing that we should prefer <-isation> because it's currently preferred in the land that was formerly English's homeland; that seems a bit tenuous to me. (3) The Oxford English Dictionary, an extremely well-regarded U.K. dictionary, prefers <-ization> for some reason; make of that what you will. (4) It's true that the Commonwealth has more inhabitants than the U.S., but the U.S. has at least double the number of native English speakers that the Commonwealth has. (I don't mean to suggest that we should always prefer U.S. spellings to U.K. spellings, but the opposite approach seems no better.) (5) Canada, though part of the Commonwealth, prefers <-ization>. I don't know about other Commonwealth nations. —Ruakh_TALK 21:27, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Etymology

• English: from Middle French
• French: formed in French by suffixation

That looks strange. Was the Middle French term lost in France, so it was re-created later?