Talk:schrecklichkeit

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Hello, i am sorry, but the word "Schrecklichkeit" does not exist in the german language. It is certainly allowed to make substantives out of other words and verbs in german, however this word is not used. The nearest word would be "Scheußlichkeit", which also includes a definite disgust towards a subject, or person. HTH —This unsigned comment was added by 91.15.138.31 (talkcontribs) at 13:18, 12 May 2009.

Leo dictionary and a little over four and a half million google hits for Schrecklichkeit (or 19100 for "Schrecklichkeit) from websites written in German seem to disagree. :) — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 14:04, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
I agree with 91.15.138.31, google is no argument per se, but the knowledge of German grammar is. The substantive which corresponds to schrecklich is Schreck and there can not be aduplicate form. This is the opposite case of gräßlich - there is no Graß, therefore the substantive is Gräßlichkeit. Claiming some Schrecklichkeit because of schrecklich resembles claiming beatifulity because of beautiful by completely disregarding the fact that there is beauty. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 06:47, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
You cannot describe a language or build a dictionary considering only grammar - a language is a living organism and corpora (including Google) are the main source of judgement here. The word is really widely used not only in English, but in German as well, so it has all rights to be present in the dictionary. --Al Silonov 10:09, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Vraiment? And what evidence do you have for the word being propagated in German? We have here two protesting German speakers. But to be sure and to disprove this irrevocably, I shall apprise the editors of the German Wiktionary on their Beer parlour and requæst their opinion. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 11:00, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Hello "Semper Blotto", could you explain why you always undo the changes i made ? —This unsigned comment was added by 91.15.142.180 (talkcontribs) at 13:51, 12 May 2009.

  • a) because they were wrong b) because they were wrongly formatted. SemperBlotto 13:52, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I wonder how you get the idea of this being a german word - the word "Schrecklichkeit" descibes a certain behaviour of german atrocities towards belgian civilians during WW1. However this word has not been used in Germany to describe such a policy, or behaviour. It is a made-up english word to describe this behaviour, and discuss it historically. You will not find this word in german (sic) literature, or reports. P.S. it is not "uncountable", a plural for a word like "Schrecklichkeit" would certainly be "Schrecklichkeiten". As i said before you can invent lots of new words using verbs to create substantives in german. —This unsigned comment was added by 91.15.128.142 (talkcontribs) at 16:08, 12 May 2009.

Interesting discussion, but there's s.t. smelling fishy here. There is a discussion over at the aerodrome forum, where some guy mentioned the word "Schecklichkiet", describing a policy of systematically killing civilians by high command. Some people said this might be propaganda, however at that very day this wiktionary article appeared out of the blue .. Is the british Committee on Public Information (CPI) of WWI still active lol. Shrecklichkiet is indeed used by anglo-saxon historians to describe certain atrocities, but the word does not exist as such. HTH —This unsigned comment was added by 91.15.164.1 (talkcontribs) at 09:04, 14 May 2009.

You are the second person who considers the German claim a figment - for more refer to User talk:91.15.142.180, where I already discussed it with a (native) German speaker. In conclusion, the evidence disproves the claim of the existence of a German word and I am about to modify the etymology section into from German schrecklich + -keit accordingly. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 09:52, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Existence of this word can be proven by many German dictionaries[edit]

Hello,
i'm Caligari, one of the administrators of the German wiktionary. I just consulted my German dictionary which contains the lemma "Schrecklichkeit" (Duden Deutsches Universalwörterbuch, 6., überarbeitete und erweiterte Auflage, Dudenverlag Mannheim - Leipzig - Wien - Zürich, 2006, ISBN 3-411-05506-5. Page 1492). You can also find the word here, here and last but not least here. So, i definitively disagree with these other two German users. I hope this will lead this dicussion to an end. - Kind regards, Caligari 11:33, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Hello! I'm Baisemain and also one of the administrators of the German Wiktionary. I confirm the existence of the German word Schrecklichkeit. I wrote an answer to the request in the German Wiktionary http://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Fragen_zum_Wiktionary#schrecklichkeit . Sincerely --Baisemain 11:39, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Hallo Baisemain, gute Idee mit einem Wiki-Lexikon. ... Schrecklichkeit ... also meines Erachtens nach ist das zumindest kein umgangssprachliches Wort. Es kommt in der Dichtung (selten) vor, oder auch mal um "entsetzliche Schrecknisse" mit diesem Wort "S." literarisch zu überhöhen. Aber dies Wort als Bezeichnung eines preußischen vorsätzlichen Plans zum Töten von Zivilisten im Krieg ? Ich kann mir nicht vorstellen, das selbst die militaristischsten Preußen ihren Plan (falls er denn existiert) so nennen würden, wie der Autor wohl meint (?) Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Kai —This unsigned comment was added by 91.15.132.118 (talkcontribs) at 14:19, 15 May 2009.

Jawohl, ich stimme Ihnen zu, natürlich mag Preußen schwerlich seinen Plan so bezeichnet haben, diese Verwendung scheint ein Entente-Propaganda zu sein und dürfte viel später aus Bosheit ausgedacht worden sein, um den Besiegten zu verleumden. So was fügte sich in den Feldzügen der wilden mongolischen Horden aus dem 13. Jh., die in Bagdad in wenigen Tagen Hunderttausende von Menschen geschlachtet haben und nicht in den Plänen einer zivilisierten preußischen Armee... MfG The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 16:15, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Halo Baisemain, Kai here once more. I am not sure whether you are german or not ? Anyway since this whole project seems to be a british one, or better international in a way, i will then write this in English. I do not really see whether what you wrote of mongolian hordes compared with Prussia is sarcastic, or just nonsense. Prussia as well as any other government in the world will NEVER call an atrocity by a name that it really deserves - there are all kinds of euphemisms, but not the real thing. This is why i do not believe this plan, if it really existed, would have been called "Schrecklichkeit", but rather "plan to deal with civilians", or whatever. I do not doubt that the english-speaking historians later used this term "Schrecklichkeit" to describe those war crimes, or atrocities. It is just that this word was not used by Germany. If you have evidence about this word used by Prussia or its army describing this terror on civilians, please inform me. Thank you very much, Kai

Right, at the time of the crimes, they would have been termed crowd control or something similar. But in the aftermath of the war, German and international tribunals could have used this word to describe the actions, although it may not have been the "official" term that the courts and politicians used. But it’s a regular word and it stands to reason that some Germans probably used it occasionally to describe those actions. —Stephen 18:48, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
(@Kai) I earnestly consider the devastation caused by the Mongol invasion in Bagdad in the 13th century the diametrical reverse to the Prussian propagation of culture in Eastern Europe. No sarcasm soever was meant. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 19:42, 16 May 2009 (UTC)