Talk:zot

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I would like to add IPA pronounciation, next the word, and not at end, but I don't know how to do it. Nemzag 08:09, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

In the etymologies, we only put transcriptions, not pronunciations. The IPA pronunciation can only go under the heading ===Pronunciation===, and only on the page for that particular word. The IPA pronunciation of σωτήρ goes only on the page σωτήρ, under the heading ===Pronunciation===. Otherwise, we only use transcriptions, as done on zot. Note that σωτήρ already has the pronunciation given on its page. —Stephen 08:41, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Etymology[edit]

Mallory and Demiraj have different etymologies for Zot. The σωτήρ etymology is not sourced and thus removed. Azaleapomp2 21:15, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Referencing the newly added etymology is desirable in order to achieve cogency. This entry was exposed to edit war less than a year ago exactly in this section. Therefore changes there must be well-found. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 22:12, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
The Mallory source: Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture by J. P. Mallory, Douglas Q. Adams, 1997: pages 193 and 371. The Demiraj source: Albanische Etymologien: Untersuchungen zum albanischen Erbwortschatz by Bardhyl Demiraj, 1997: pages 431-432. Azaleapomp2 07:26, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
The section is now formatted according to your cites. This is crucial for words of obscure origin such as this one or chagrin so that people have an overview of the diverse theories and may refer to any of the sources, if they are interested. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 08:22, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, I should check some other etymologies of some Albanian words to make sure people just aren't adding their personal research. I only use academic sources. Azaleapomp2 15:51, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Do not add unsourced material[edit]

Please only include etymologies from academic (especially linguistic) sources. Thanks. Azaleapomp2 06:02, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes Nemzag, and also please refrain from fringe theories and original research whilst adding your sources. We must focus on the most current scholarship, and arrange theories by the level of acceptance in the linguistic community (usually in reverse chronological order). --Ivan Štambuk 07:14, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

With regards to the zot entry, please do not add unsourced material. All of the other etymologies have been sourced from academic materials. Thanks. Azaleapomp2 06:01, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Don't need source just greek logic... Also some say that zotëri & zot in Albanian came from the Persian word Zaotor (Zût, Zot) Persian Zoroastrian Head Invoker Priest (source : [[1]] & [[2]]). Still the word connect to greek σωτήρ : savior (messia in hebrew), also called ώχρα χρυσός Χρισωτάρης ήλιοσωλαριστα (Chrisotarês), who is the head sacrificator priest of Zeys  : ιερεύς από Ζεύς (سر رأس رئيس زيوس), the zotëri, the Zaotar, श्रोत्रिय, the Sôtêr צתרה (Savior, Messiah Christ מוֹשִׁיעַ מָשִׁיחַ משה). So please leave my information... I'm an albanian from Macedonia, and Shqipëria is near greece, so a lot of word came from very ancient greek orthodox Nemzag.
About your source vladimir orel is a Russian, not an albanian romanian persian, and the two others source are deutsch, both tryed to conquer albania in the second world war. So please, leave my information Nemzag 11:54, 11 November 2009 (UTC).
And all his explanation about Zotëri made by Azaleapomp2, are just inadequate, and useless Nemzag 12:40, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Zotëri is Sôtêr (in greek) and have no etymology with Hindu Praja Pati, विश्पति (víś-páti), “‘lord of the house’”) जास्पति (jā́s-pati : “‘head of a family’), *desyās + *poti (“‘lord, master’”) *deywós (“‘skyling, deity’”) + *átta (“‘father’”), Praja Pati & Others are the roman Iupiter Dius (God of Earth Sky, because Ouranos / Varuna is the god of Universal Sky). Every body know that roman cult came from persian & hindu (aryan), because roma is a persian colony, made after the alexander & Darius / Xerxes war on greece, to take it from the west. Nemzag 19:35, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Please Nemzag no more of this fringecruft. Use reliable, peer-reviewed linguistic sources for etymologies or you'll be blocked for pushing OR and PoV. --Ivan Štambuk 18:48, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

I understand but you are wrong, when somebody don't agree with you, or don't accord with your opinion, you block them, it's not fair, and not democratic, for me is like dictatory. I explain my language, you never know better than me the origine of my people. A lot of people of my family are teacher. So please, leave my information.Nemzag 19:24, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
No, this is not a democracy but a dictatorship of logic and reason. Languages are not "owned" by people who speak them. If you persevere in in adding dubious etymologies you'll be blocked. There is so much other useful things you could do here, please desist from making such contentious edits. --Ivan Štambuk 19:30, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Ok, but understand, i agree about some information added by Azaleapomp2 about Zot, like live, life it's related to greek ζων or ζῶ [zɔ], again is a name of ζήνων Ζεύς (ζέων ζέω ζήνων ζέση). Those information are true again σωτήρ [Sôtêr] is an epithet of Ζεύς. About the word zonjë, feminine form of Zot, is related to life ζων and arabo-persian زن [zɒn] who mean fornication زان [zæn]. The life. So Zotëri is the Sôtêr Zaotar priest of Life aka ζήνων Ζεύς ώχρυσωτάρης, god of thunder & lightning, who give life to machine, automate and animal cortex. Oki? Also in macedonia we say for a lady zojë. Nemzag 19:36, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
What do you mean with Macedonia? The province in Greece or FYROM? Neither Slavomacedonian nor Greek is written in Latin script, so zojë is not a valid spelling in either case. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 21:10, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Aryan Romanian Albanian Shqiptar from FYROM Skopje, Shkupi : latin Scupi Nemzag 09:30, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
No, zotëri is a synchronic derivation from zotër, plural form of zot. It has absolutely nothing to do with the priesthood of fire or Ancient Greek deities. --Ivan Štambuk 19:37, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
So, how we do now ? About Zot, Zaotar, Sôtêr, life and Zeys ? Nemzag 19:42, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Here's how: These have absolutely nothing to do with each other, so we don't mention them. --Ivan Štambuk 19:54, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
I don't understand that you leaved etymology so long time. Before that Azaleapomp2 remove my etymology information, i don't wan't to remove is add but just to leave my add.
Because nobody noticed that it was wrong. Hopefully with guys such as Azeleapomp here, we'll eventually weed out all the nonsense on mythical Iranian/Aryan substratum in Balkanic languages. --Ivan Štambuk 20:21, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Who is that Azaleapomp2, is he the all knowing guy from east deutschland & russia ? You are trying to remove our ancient god Nemzag 20:25, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
He is the knowledgeable dude :) Look Nemzag, I don't want to discuss this any further. I hope you understood what I meant to say about non-reliable and non-scholarly sources - they're not only unallowed, but are strongly discouraged and their continual pushing will result in sanctions for the fervent PoV fundamentalist. That "colonizer's" type of scholarship is the only thing we're truly interested in. Search on the Internet for Orel's historical grammar of Albanian and Albanian etymological dictionary and try to obtain some real knowledge on your mother tongue without the layer of nationalist/religious mythology. That kind of information you'd be allowed add on Wiktionary. But no more of this Greek/Aryan deity stuff, please. --Ivan Štambuk 20:58, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
About what you said "No, zotëri is a synchronic derivation from zotër, plural form of zot." isn't true, in albanian, plural form masculine is "ËT" feminine is "AT" like arab/persian: derr & derrët, derra & derrat (door & doors درات), kerr & kerrët, kerra & kerrat (Car & cars), nënë & nënët, nëna & nënat (mother, mothers), babë & babët, baba & babat (father, fathers), Zot & zotët, zota & Zotat (deity & Deitys), zotëri & zotëriët, zotëria zotëriat (Lord, Savior & Lords Saviors), Zotëri is derivation of Sôtêr & Zaotar like kundër [qundəɾ] & qendër [ʨɛndəɾ] came from κόντρα [qontra] & κέντρο [qentro] (kund & qend didn't exist in albanian the extension "ËR" is not plural form ; same type of latin derivation exist in italian, spagnol & french, where the S became Z, K / G [g], G [g] / DƷ, D / T, phonetic deviation), Zotëria Shqipëria ("Feja Shqiptare është Shqiptaria"), also zotër didn't exist in my dictionary (lingvosoft, babylon), zotëri, zotëroj, zotësi exist. 09:44, 12 November 2009 (UTC) (PS : Can you explain me how to add information about my knowledge in some language, like those you added in your user page ?)
Well, several dictionaries I checked all list zotër as one of the plural forms of zot. E.g. this one online. Two of them are etymological, one is "normal" (Albanian-Russian).
You need to use templates and language codes if you want to display your knowledge of a particular language. For example, for Albanian you use: {{Babel-1|sq}}, where sq is the ISO language code for Albanian (which you can find e.g. on Wikipedia). You can add additional codes with |code1|code2|code3... with various levels. See Wiktionary:Babel for more information. --Ivan Štambuk 10:35, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
I use babylon, lingvosoft & Fjalor i gjuhës së sotme shqipe (by Rilindja of Nazmi Rrahmani), there is no Zotër but Zotëroj, Nemzag 11:06, 12 November 2009 (UTC).
I'm not sure your online dictionary is a good one who made it ? (Arizona U.S of N.A)
In Albanian after communist regime, they made a reform (1947), and changed a lot of word, adding double consonne like ND, Përk, derr, hund... In macedonia the albanian who didn't learned the reformed language at school, still use the ancient prononciation, so i have made a list of word corrupted by reformator. So if your online dictionary use the reformed is fake then, like spouse : nusë / nusja(sq) is nase / nasja (mk) from arabic نساء, lady : zonje (sq) is zojë (mk), build : mbaroj (sq) maroj (mk), impossible : pamundësi (sq), pamunësi (mk), end : fund (sq) fun (mk of latin finis), lamb kingj [kinɟ] (mk שֶׂה שַׁח), qingj [ʨinɟ] (kosovo), qëngj [ʨənɟ] (sq); dog : qen [ʨɛn] (sq), çen [ʧɛn] (mk) & çan [ʧan] (kosovo xhakova from latin canis)... Nemzag 11:14, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Nemzag, Ivan was suggesting that you add the input/text {{Babel-2|sq|en-2}} for example, if you speak Albanian as native language and English at an intermediate level at your user page. The number (in this case 2) corresponds to the number of languages you speak. If you speak French as well, add {{Babel-3|sq|en-2|fr-2}} and so on. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 11:53, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for Advice Bogorm, i added information. Nemzag 22:04, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm well aware with the communist-imposed reform of switching the official literary dialect to reflect Hoxha's mother tongue but this has nothing to do with this. --Ivan Štambuk 17:21, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
I don't think it's ever been our policy to "only add sourced material". Users are allowed to use their own brains and even sourced etymologies are speculative. If you want to remove dubious etymologies, fine, but I don't think we'er going to start removing every etymology that doesn't have a source. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:31, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
That is the purpose of the Template:rfv-etymology - to demand and provide plausibility for the etymology mostly by means of referencing. I would not agree to erase all unsourced etymologies either. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 11:53, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
There is a difference between "speculative" and "plausible". Not all speculative theories (which is a yes/no quality) are equally plausible (which can be scientifically gauged and given certain probability). Your logic is the same what creationists (ab)use to "teach the controversy" at schools. Nemzag's theories are essentially made-up nonsense and we cannot allow that. It's enough annoying that he doesn't accept Western scholarship at all (according to him Western etymologists are biased by colonizers' anti-Albanian prejudice, and only Albanians have divine right to etymologize their languages), but now him claims that there is no such thing as zotër plural of zot despite the fact that it can be found in just about any dictionary. --Ivan Štambuk 17:21, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Ivan. Sources from academic and peer-reviewed materials will always trump unsourced information or materials which are not from academia. For etymologies, the best sources of course will come from linguistics as this is the qualified authority on etymologies. I hope to look over more of the etymologies to check with the academic sources. Removing every unsourced etymology would not be needed as often some users will recognize right away if the etymology is correct or not. I know enough of some etymologies from Indo-European languages to spot blatant errors right away. This is why "zot" stood out right away as I have known of that word's etymology due to me reading academic sources on that word. Azaleapomp2 20:04, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Your source are fake and useless, i don't understand why you add hindu god instead of our elleno-greek gods Nemzag 23:51, 12 November 2009 (UTC)