Template talk:CJKV

Korean variants

@Wyang Korean sometimes needs separate hanja (h= or k=?), e.g. Korean 飜譯, a variant from Chinese 翻譯

Sino-Xenic (翻譯／翻译 (fānyì)):

• → Japanese: 翻訳(ほんやく) (hon'yaku)
• → Korean: 번역(飜譯) (beonyeok)
• → Vietnamese: phiên dịch (翻譯)

--Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 14:06, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

No problem, done. Wyang (talk) 22:31, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Request for Instructions

I would like to know how the template works, particularly when it comes to entries like this one. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 21:02, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Mostly done. —suzukaze (t・c) 06:24, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

|v=

Is |v= supposed to override 4= (Vietnamese quoc ngu)? It seems really pointless. —suzukaze (t・c) 06:24, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Okinawan and the Ryukyuan Languages

@Wyang I think we should include Okinawan and the other Ryukyuan languages in the template. For example, 世界, 医者, 同士, 幽霊, 政治, and 同性. DerekWinters (talk) 21:00, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Hi, I'm not very familiar with Okinawan and Ryukyuan unfortunately. Is there a regular system of reading Chinese characters in these languages? Wyang (talk) 03:19, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

@Wyang I'm fairly sure there is, but I can't be certain. There is certainly a regular system of borrowing from Japanese, but some words, like 海豚 (fītu) don't have Japanese cognates, nor do they appear to be borrowed from an obsolete Japanese form *haidon/*kaidon. So I would say there is. DerekWinters (talk) 20:27, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Okay, I added the parameters |o= (for Okinawan Kanji. The Japanese Kanji form is called if this is empty) and |or= (Okinawan romanisation). We should develop a module that transliterates Okinawan kana. The transliteration rules seem different to standard Japanese kana, e.g. じょうい (jōi) vs じょうい (jyoui). Wyang (talk) 22:50, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

@DerekWinters, Wyang: a suggestion for now, while a module is still in the works, why not a ruby (furigana) text like in the Japanese parameters? ～ POKéTalker（═◉═） 06:19, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

@DerekWinters, Wyang, Poketalker How is my recent work? MiguelX413 (talk) 06:57, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

@MiguelX413: looks good, but the Okinawan parameter should be between the Japanese and Korean ones as before. ～ POKéTalker（═◉═） 18:15, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

@Poketalker: Is this good?

Sino-Xenic (世界 (shìjiè)):

• → Japanese: 世(せ)界(かい) (sekai)
• → Okinawan: 世(し)界(けー) (shikē)
• → Korean: 세계(世界) (segye)
• → Vietnamese: thế giới (世界)

MiguelX413 (talk) 18:35, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Zhuang

I think Zhuang could be added to the list as well. It has probably more Sino-Zhuang terms than any other Sinoxenic language but Zhuang resources are limited. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 04:09, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

@Atitarev, I've added the functionality, but I'm kind of unsure. The Wikipedia article on Non-Sinoxenic pronunciations lists Zhuang as one of the languages that do not have Sinoxenic pronunciations (but doesn't have any source backing it up). This article might be of interest. @Wyang, any thoughts? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 23:29, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

@Justinrleung Thanks for that! I don't know why they say that. Even a non-specialist can see that there is a huge number of Sinitic loanwords in Zhuang, which is not considered a Sinitic language. They may be relatively recent, though, judging by the pronunciation. User:Suzukaze-c also developed a pronunciation module (beta-version) for it. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:33, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

@Atitarev: According to the Chinese article (壮语汉借词及其文化心理透视), many are recent loans from Cantonese and Guilin-Liuzhou (Southwestern) Mandarin, which might be one of the reasons why Zhuang loans may not be considered "Sinoxenic". — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 01:39, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Yeah that is my concern too. Zhuang has many layers of borrowings from different varieties of Chinese, so the reading system is not as regular. Wyang (talk) 01:55, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Calquing

@Justinrleung, since the last edit, you said the Japanese term is not Sino-Xenic but a calque. What should we do to this?

s=

The shinjitai or Japanized (see 百聞不如一見／百闻不如一见 (bǎi wén bùrú yī jiàn) for an example) form of the word (overrides 1= for Japanese)

～ POKéTalker（═◉═） 00:28, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

@Poketalker: I think the documentation needs to be changed. I don't think it's right to call that Sino-Xenic. Pinging @Suzukaze-c, who put that in the doc. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 01:58, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: I was probably thinking of this edit by @Kc kennylau. I don't mind removing it. —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 06:57, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

@Suzukaze-c: Yeah, I don't think we should call these calques Sino-Xenic. Let's take that out of the doc. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 17:10, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

New conventions for Sino-Korean descendants

@Justinrleung, Suzukaze-c, Eirikr, 沈澄心: Hi. The Korean descendants should probably be formatted a bit differently now. Not 창고 (倉庫, changgo) but 창고(倉庫) (changgo) in this order: hangeul(hanja) (romaja). Pinging some people who edited the template and who might be able and willing to assist. Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:39, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

@Atitarev: I've made the change. Let me know if it looks okay. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 22:35, 5 February 2023 (UTC)