Template talk:suffix

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Meta[edit]

I think it would be vastly better not to subst this template, nor to use it directly in most cases; it would make the most sense to use it as a meta template for more specific templates like {{-ity}} and {{-ize}}. -- Visviva 10:54, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

English-only?[edit]

Are templates {{prefix}} and {{suffix}} supposed to be English-only, and that's the reason why they don't accept lang= parameter (AND use {{en-term}} which seems to be aware only of English POS)?

Same question applies for those inside Category:Suffix templates and Category:Prefix templates, although I see some French stuff there but still without lang parameter and support for alternate text (so that one could link to lemma entry and display a stem). --Ivan Štambuk 00:37, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I removed the {{en-term}} and replaced it with the result of {{term}}, because it is a general template. perhaps a third (or named) parameter can be added if people are desperate to have the {{en-term}} styling. Conrad.Irwin 00:16, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Why not just call {{term}} with |lang={{{lang|}}|sc={{{sc|}}} ? Then you can use either or both as desired and get whatever customization that term gets you (including section links).
If cases are any more complicated (alt links etc), it really ought to be written as foo-stuff + bar-stuff on the page, trying to use this is overkill. It is supposed to just make things easier. Robert Ullmann 00:43, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
I delegated the work to {{term}}, so most of this should be possible. H. (talk) 14:09, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Minor code modification[edit]

I've replaced {{{{{lang}}}}} call with {{t-sect|{{{lang}}}}}. For non-top-40 languages {{{ISO 639}}} code gets expanded into wikified version which screws up linking to language sections (compare {{cu}} with {{lang:cu}}). It took me a while to figure this out (Special:ExpandTemplates is a great tool!).

Hopefully nothing is broken.. --Ivan Štambuk 20:15, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Categorization[edit]

I would like to categorize pages that use this template with [[Category:{{language|{{{lang|en}}}}} words ending in "-{{{2}}}"]] but I'm not sure if that's the best category name and I don't know how {{t-sect}} is supposed to be used. DAVilla 00:11, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

That's a great idea! So far explicit categorizing has been used (Category:English nouns ending in -ism for example). {t-sect} is used quite straightforwardly: you just pass it the ISO code of parameter lang and it returns language name.
A few considerations that should be made:
1) Some prefixes/suffixes are extremely productive in some highly inflective languages. Maybe this categorization should be applied only to lemma forms? If that is the case, than the template shouldn't be used for any of the derived forms, which could potentially have it's own specialized categorization scheme (such as Category:English plurals ending in "-es". That would however degrade the status of non-lemma terms, and how good/bad that is, I don't know, but judging with recent discussions in mind I don't think everyone would be too happy about it. OTOH, generating categories that would contain tens of thousands of bot-generated derived verb forms of Spanish verbs would be an overkill.
2) Prefixes and suffixes could be mutated in various ways, consonants could be lost, assimilated.., and most languages don't use morphological orthography. So if I put that bešuman is built as bez- + šuman, and the template categorizes it in [[Category:Croatian words beginning with bez-]], that would be factually wrong.. --Ivan Štambuk 12:45, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
How about Category:English words suffixed with -ism instead, and likewise for all others? DAVilla 06:04, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
That would be much more precise wording.
Also, this raises the question of Derived terms header entries for affixes, as these categories and entries in those lists should be identical. For some extremely productive suffixes, categories make much more sense. If both are to be kept, this could be an opportunity to automate synchronization of these two. --Ivan Štambuk 15:21, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Changes in the root[edit]

Could there be an extra parameters for instances where the original word changes when suffix is attached (i.e. instead of big + -er one could write big(g)- + -er, or more suitably for agglutinative languages which may have very different roots: mennä + -minenmene- + -minen)? --Jyril 22:01, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I introduced this, see above. H. (talk) 14:09, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

PoS/Ety link[edit]

If arguments 1 or 2 refer to long English entries, the user can miss the relevant etymology or PoS. Would it be possible to allow the arguments to be of the form [[X#Heading|X]] to allow for links to the right PoS or at least the right etymology. The same would apply to prefix, of course. DCDuring TALK 15:19, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

This is what the ss parameter is for, though I would rather remove it, since it makes the template overly complicated. Instead, a gloss can be used. H. (talk) 14:09, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
I have two issues.
  1. "ss=" only applies to the suffix. I am trying to help a user with a link to, say, a polysemic verb root which is preceded on its page with a long noun section.
  2. Hard-coding section numbers doesn't work well for English, especially for the root words. I expected to be able to insert a piped link for the stem that would have enable me to send a user directly to the relevant etymology or PoS and not have it break every time an etymology, pronunciation, alt spelling, translation, semantic relations, usage notes, or PoS section is added or an errant "Homophones" header is excised. A named section link is less likely to break. DCDuring TALK 14:59, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

From[edit]

I added the word ‘From ’ in front of the template. This reflects the majority of the uses of it, namely plainly in the etymology section with not context. But that is too concise in my POV. This will break some pages, but I did some random tests on referring pages and most of them are fine. Maybe we could add an optional nofrom= parameter which would indicate the from should not be there, if people think it is needed, although I like the uniformity. H. (talk) 09:22, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Reverted (by Robert) as change was not discussed and the template is used widely (breaking many existing usages). See Wiktionary:Beer parlour#The prefix template is broken. --Bequw¢τ 06:35, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Parameters sc= and tr2=[edit]

The above parameters don't work. See ծանրություն or учитель, for example. I don't have much experience in template editing, so can someone fix this please? --Vahagn Petrosyan 05:57, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Now fixed. Conrad.Irwin 14:00, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Fantastic. Thank you very much. Can you do the same for {{prefix}} and {{compound}}? It must be analogous, right? In {{prefix}} gloss1= doesn't work and sc=, tr1=, tr2= do not exist. In {{compound}} sc=, tr1=, tr2= do not exist. --Vahagn Petrosyan 07:46, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Fix categories for rtl?[edit]

Trying to use this for things like Hebrew, the page displays properly, but the category comes up "Hebrew words suffixed with -י" with the hyphen on the wrong end of the suffix. I tried to fix this once, but got impatient pretty quickly. Could there be a way to fix it? — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 11:38, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, I got that to work. At some point I want to find out if Arabic has a specific unicode symbol so I can add languages that use the Arabic script. etc. — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 20:30, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

params t1, t2[edit]

I added parameters t1, t2 as alternatives to gloss1, gloss2 for the sake of "consistency" with {{compound}}. —AugPi (t) 13:08, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

suffixes sandwiched between two hyphens[edit]

If a suffix is sandwiched between two hyphens, e.g. -ad-, then use parameter infix=yes as in vojaĝado. The alternative is to include the right hyphen in parameter 2. —AugPi (t) 21:26, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Multiple suffixes[edit]

Could there be an option to indicate multiple suffixes, if no intermediate one-suffix form exists? Nesting this template does not seem to work. --Tropylium 09:15, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

You can do a trick like this. --Vahagn Petrosyan 09:48, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
In Esperanto, I am dealing with multiple suffixes rather frequently. Appending all those {{suffix||...|lang=eo}}s gets rather ridiculous when etymologizing a word like homaranismo. It would be much preferable if suffix could handle three or four suffixes at once. - Robin 12:12, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
The Hungarians might have a language-specific template, not so picky about "-"s, that could be copied and modified. DCDuring TALK 13:32, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

POS cat[edit]

Since apparently "words" isn't specific enough (see Category:Portuguese adverbs suffixed with -mente) could someone add a pos= option to this bad boy? — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 22:53, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Japanese and Korean affixes[edit]

A while ago we decided not to use hyphens with Japanese and Korean (except when in Roman letters), both kana and kanji, at the BP. Is it possible to edit this template so that it reflects this change? I can take a look at it myself but I thought somebody else knows how the template works and could make the edit easily. TIA Haplology 13:28, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it's possible, but the categories will need to be fixed at the same time, and {{suffixcat}} will have to be changed accordingly. And you'll probably want to make the same change to {{prefix}} and {{prefixcat}} and prefix-categories. The smoothest way to do it is probably:
  • Create the new suffix-categories.
  • Update {{suffix}} and {{suffixcat}}. (I've created {{suffix/temp}} and {{suffixcat/temp}}, which you can steal. I haven't tested them, but I think they're good.)
  • Delete the old suffix-categories.
  • Repeat, this time for prefixes.
RuakhTALK 21:14, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll do that. I've started on step one. Fifty some categories to go. Haplology 16:22, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
Made the new categories, updated suffix and suffixcat, and all seems to be well except that the new categories still throw up an error message, for example Category:Japanese_words_suffixed_with_界. I'm deleting the old categories now. Thanks for helping me through this! Haplology 18:20, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
Re: error message: oops, fixed, thanks! —RuakhTALK 18:43, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Usage with proto-terms[edit]

How it is supposed to be used? It generates weird category name. --Ivan Štambuk (talk)

It works normally when both positional parameters are provided. However, it is broken when the first positional parameter is left empty. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 08:37, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
That's only if it's placed on the start of a line. But why would you want the line to begin with " + ..."? —CodeCat 12:05, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Performance[edit]

Why does this template often fail to give me the font that I expect (for English) when {{term}}, on the same line, does? Is term that much simpler? In what way? Can this defect be remedied by making if function more directly. DCDuring TALK 16:06, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

This template actually uses {{term}}, so that is not the problem. —CodeCat 17:32, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
Is it the extra delay of calling it? What is that delay? Does something start executing before some lower-level functional relating to fonts is complete so a default is not overridden? ?
@CodeCat: This template doesn't literally use {{term}}; they both ultimately call the same Lua function, of course, but there's also a good chunk of duplicated/unshared code in setting up the arguments to that function, and hence opportunity for discrepancies and {{suffix}}-specific problems. —RuakhTALK 23:49, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
But I notice that the problem is not what I thought it was. The desired font (I think: it happens fast) appears and then, for some templates, apparently those that use Lua, the font is converted to another font.
Are we sure that we want to fight this Webfont/ULS stuff? DCDuring TALK 00:02, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
{{suffix}} and {{term}} both use Lua. (BTW, if you're asking CodeCat/me/anyone to investigate, I think you should link to an example, and/or give steps to reproduce. Otherwise this discussion won't really go anywhere.) —RuakhTALK 00:59, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Sphinx +‎ -idae - result of {{suffix|Sphinx|idae}} - this time with sans serif font

Sphinx - result of {{term|Sphinx}} - this time with serif font

suffix - result of {{taxoninfl}} - this time, as always, with sans-serif font

suffix - result of {{mul-proper noun}} - this time, as usual, with serif font.

Is the result pattern similar for others? DCDuring TALK 01:10, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

That's odd, considering {{term|Sphinx}} has the "sans-serif" style from Latn-mention, while {{suffix|Sphinx|idae}} has no such declaration. Either way I can see no difference between your examples. DTLHS (talk) 01:27, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
And I'm guessing this has something to do with the fact that {{suffix}} automatically assumes English (lang="en") while {{term}} has no such assumption (lang="und"). DTLHS (talk) 01:36, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
Could well be. {{taxoninfl}} does not use any font or language templates or modules. {{mul-proper noun}} uses just {{sc}}, AFAICT. DCDuring TALK 01:43, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
Do you see the quotation arrows at Croton#English? I don't.
I am ready to try almost anything, but I am discouraged that even a FF "private window" and cleared caches gave only brief, temporary from any of the symptoms. DCDuring TALK 01:43, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
No, everything looks fine to me. DTLHS (talk) 01:50, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Suffix to a word from a foreign language?[edit]

I have a slight issue with this template. The problem is that I cannot appropriately describe adding a suffix to a transcription of a foreign word. What I'm talking about is something like larpurlartizam. "Larpurlart" doesn't exist as a word itself in Serbo-Croatian, it is a respelling of the French "l'art pour l'art" and the suffix -izam is appended onto that. However, if I add the "lang=sh" option to the template, the link to l'art pour l'art (art for art's sake) includes the index code for Serbo-Croatian (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/art_for_art%27s_sake#Serbo-Croatian).

Is there a way to address this issue while still having the word "larpurlartizam" automatically added to the category "Serbo-Croatian words suffixed with -izam"? 141.138.54.48 14:26, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Nevermind, I'm silly. All I had to do was write "l'art pour l'art" separately and leave the first entry in the suffix template empty. 141.138.54.48 14:38, 27 October 2013 (UTC)