User talk:-sche/Archive/2013

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Dates of the English language, in particular the word a[edit]

I am still learning all the nuances of this undertaking, and granted I am not as knowledgeable in the languages as I am in the Sciences, but I am learning as I go. After your deletion of the a definitions for she, he, it, they etc. I did a bit of research and I see where you are coming from. It would have helped if you or anyone could have just pointed some of these things out to some of us newcomers. I understand that people may not feel it is their job to train all the newbie's but a little advice and "training" would go a long way in saving both yours and others time later on down the road, especially to those of us that it appears apparent are not just entering the odd word, but are attempting to assist in this great undertaking in a meaningful way. First, I want to explain the way that I am/was wording things on the defdate template. If it is in current use I would say something like First attested around 1350 to 1470., meaning that is when it was first documented. If it is obsolete, I would say something like, Attested from around 1350 until 1470. or Attested from around 1350 to 1470 until the late 16th century. In particular with the she, he, it variations of the word a, my sources stated obsolete except in Scottish and English dialectal form, which I took to mean it was still in limited modern usage. Now back to the research (quick) that I did, I see that the Modern English language is said to have "arrived" in the early to mid 15th century, so I will keep that in mind when I am adding obsolete words that didn't go beyond those dates and then I will place them in their respective Middle or Old English areas. With all of this, there is a question that comes to light if a word is formed as my SOED say in the OE range of prior to 1150, but still persists into the modern English ranged of the 17th century, does it get an entry in all three date ranges of the English language, Old, Middle, and plain English? Finally, as I have stated before on many of my posts, (not just to you, -sche, but to all, please correct me, guide me, or whatever you need to do, (in a pleasant manner :) please), as that will make your job's easier if I am making mistakes and it will make mine easier of I don't have to go back and clean up my own mistakes. Speednat (talk) 18:12, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

I am not too good at this finding and citing thing, but I did run across Shakespeare's Henry V, where he writes "a babbled of green fields" where a definitely is he. I don't know how I found that, it just kind of popped up while I was looking for something else. Anyway I am not losing too much sleep over this, I just want the product (WT) to be as good and comprehensive while accurate as possible. Speednat (talk) 03:56, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
Hi! I didn't realise you were the one who added the [[a]] senses, or I would just have asked you what you meant by the dates; I'm sorry. (Sorry also that I and other Wiktionarians are so taciturn.) Regarding "obsolete except in Scottish and English dialectal form": in speech, I expect /ə/ or /ɑ/ is found (for "he", "it" and "they" if not for the others) in many dialects, as a reduction of /hi/, /ɪt/, etc... but I couldn't find anything in print. It's hard to search for, too (as you know)... I should probably scour a Shakespeare corpus to see if anything else like the "a babbled" you cite turns up for "she", "it" or "they".
Regarding words attested in multiple periods: if a word is attested in Old English, it should have an ==Old English== entry, yes. I think Wiktionary should also have Middle and Modern English sections for words attested in both those periods (because pronunciation and sometimes inflection differ), but I get the impression from some other editors that they don't think Middle English entries are necessary if a word is also attested in modern English. - -sche (discuss) 04:06, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
I believe I found two more to make it a threesome, is that is needed to qualify an entry? I believe I have read that as correct, so I will re-add the entry with the citations. Let me know what you think, please. Speednat (talk) 07:21, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
Scratch that. I didn't realize that the senses in question were all but he, which is what all of my citations cover. So I guess that I will keep my eye open for other instances. Also, I didn't realize that me evolution was as drastic as it has been. Back when I started using the defdate template (like with the a entry), I was just writing in years. I have since added the more detailed words that I stated above. I may need to go back and expand all of those "poor" entries, as they aren't extremely clear. Speednat (talk) 07:31, 2 January 2013 (UTC)


Hallo -sche,

Könntest du bitte meine Ergänzung an das übliche, englische Format anpassen? Ich danke dir! Schöne Grüße --Yoursmile (talk) 12:16, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Hallo Yoursmile! Das passte schon an einer der hier-üblichen Formate. :) Einige Benuzter leiten die Definitionen von englischen Wörtern mit Großschreibung ein (als pseudo-Sätze, die auch mit einem Punkt abgeschlossen werden), andere verwenden Kleinschreibung und keinen Punkt, besonders wenn es um einfache Glossierungen handelt. (Definitionen von anderssprachigen Wörtern sind in der Regel nur Glossierungen.) MfG, - -sche (discuss) 21:40, 3 January 2013 (UTC)


I am starting to look at working on the Rhymes section and I noticed that there are missing templates. Who should I get with to make sure, that when I make these missing templates that I am doing so correctly? I have made a couple already and they seem to work fine, but I want to make sure that all my I's are dotted and T's crossed. The ones that I have done so far are Here and Here and I made some changes Here and Here. Speednat (talk) 17:23, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

eine Bitte zu Kurzweil[edit]

Hallo -sche!
Von Benutzer Metaknowledge wurde die Bitte geäußert, die Beispiele zu übersetzen. Ich habe versucht, ihm die Problematik von Übersetzungen klar zu machen. Zwei offizielle Übersetzungen habe ich gefunden, von denen eine das Lemma völlig ignoriert und die gegebene Übersetzung, wie mir scheint, auch dessen Bedeutung nicht konnotiert. Des Weiteren habe ich versucht, alle anderen Beispiele zu übersetzen. Nun meine Bitte: Wärst du so gut und schaust dir alles mal an und korrigierst sie. Ich denke, es ist wichtig, das genaue Register zu treffen, was mir leider nicht zu gelingen scheint. Vielen Dank dafür im Voraus. — Lieben Gruß dir und ein gesundes Neues Jahr, Caligari ƆɐƀïиϠ 07:52, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Hier die Beispiele samt Übersetzungen:
  1. "[…] mock not thus my reason."
        —Friedrich Schiller: Fiesco, or The Genoese Conspiracy. A Tragedy by Frederich Schiller. The Echo Library, Teddington 2006, ISBN 1-4068-2052-0, p 16 (GoogleBooks; retrieved January 4, 2013).
    Do not mock my reason whilst amusing yourself.
    Do not push around my reason whilst amusing yourself.
    Do not trifle my reason whilst amusing yourself.
    Amongst the naked Gods and Godesses who disport themselves there with nectar and ambrosia, you see a Goddess who, although surrounded by nothing but/pure joyance and diversion, however always wears a cuirass and keeps her helmet on and her spear in the arm. It is the Goddess of Wisdom.
    "To be sure, thou wouldst call it by name and caress it; thou wouldst pull its ears and amuse thyself with it."
        —Friedrich Nietzsche: Joys and Passions. In: Thus Spake Zarathustra. A Book for All and None. The Modern Library, New York 1917, p. 34 (translated by Thomas Common; Wikisource; retrieved January 4, 2013).
    And there was various amusement in this courtly circle.
    • „Indessen scheint es, daß sie keinerlei Neigung besitzt, unserer Schäferstunde den Verlauf bloßer Kurzweil zu geben.“
          —Kurt Tucholsky: Der Bär tanzt. [1928] In: Das Lächeln der Mona Lisa. 1. Auflage, Ernst Rowohlt, Berlin 1929, p. 222 (Wikisource; retrieved January 3, 2013).
    It seems however that she has no inclination to give our tryst the tenor of bare/mere/sheer amusement.
    Whether it be the scenic, cultural or animal attractions – the place, along with its hinterland, offers a lot of touristic pastime.
    Craft stalls to join in and an attractive program for children offer pastime for young and old.
Wow, du hast Recht, die offizielle englische Übersetzung der Verschwörung des Fiesco ist schlecht. Ich habe eine zweite Übersetzung gefunden, von George D'Aguilar: "Speak, I / Conjure you, speak, nor longer trifle with / A lover's tortures." Auch das gibt den Sinn nicht exakt wieder. I'll see what I can come up with, though. :) Liebe Grüße, - -sche (discuss) 21:36, 4 January 2013 (UTC)


I apologize for removing the L2 header from the entry. In regards to the actual content of my edit, why are you opposed to using "pages and pages of the edit window" when it makes the wikitext vastly more readable? I don't like guessing what part of the quotation is the publisher, what part is the chapter, what is the title, for each editor's personal formatting style. DTLHS (talk) 20:28, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm not the only one who thinks the templates, rather than making things "vastly more readable", have the opposite effect. Ruakh, too, has called them "a huge broken mess that should never be used". If quotations are formatted according to the standard format prescribed in WT:", chapter titles won't be confused with publishers. If quotations don't follow the standard format, it's no harder to convert them to it than to convert them to templates. (Well, someone used to the manual format might have to look at the template's documentation to remember its parameters, and someone used to the template might have to look at WT:" to remember the manual format, but that's a wash and goes away with exposure to the other format, anyway.)
I don't recall a discussion of the issue itself, though (only discussions like the one I link to that ended up touching on it tangentially). Perhaps we should start one... - -sche (discuss) 20:48, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Reference-book template[edit]

I am butting heads with my favorite antagonist Dan Polansky over the use of the reference-book template. I know you are familiar with my edits and I would appreciate your opinion on the matter. Normally I utilize the template to inline cite things like IPA or etymology information or if a really obscure definition is expanded on. I then use the <references/> command to document the inline ciations. Occasionally, I forego the inline because only one of my sources deals with the entry in question, see Abyssinian primrose, and place the reference-book template directly under the ===References=== header. Please weigh in as I value your opinion. Thanks Speednat (talk) 21:56, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

See also Wiktionary:BP#Abyssinian_primrose. --Dan Polansky (talk) 22:02, 4 January 2013 (UTC)


Is it appropriate just to change this? I know I should wait for due process, but I am impatient to add entries in Sabir and I don't want to create a lot more work for no reason (i.e. deleting & recreating categories). —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 00:02, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

A couple weeks of silence usually means consent on RFM. In this case, I'm looking into it and will comment there soon. - -sche (discuss) 06:51, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
Thankee! (Note: if you're planning to do any good research, it will soon be necessary to read French and Italian works... not much good scholarship on Sabir in English). —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 06:54, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Re: to Template:fact[edit]

Thanks for the heads up regarding using Template:rfv-sense instead of Template:fact. Much appreciated! :) Bumm13 (talk) 02:31, 7 January 2013 (UTC)


Your rollback was an error. My edit is legit. 19:09, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

I disagree. The term is used almost exclusively by the right wing of the US political scene, and even there it is criticized as "inherently meaningless" by even some more mainstream conservatives. Says Daniel Benjamin, "there is no sense in which jihadists embrace fascist ideology as it was developed by Mussolini or anyone else who was associated with the term". Our definition accurately summarises the context in which the term is used, and the meaning its users impart to it, without implying it's a general term.
I am not a right-winger and I fully recognize the closest political implementation Islam bears resemblence to is fascism as exemplified by their repressive social policy, disgusting misogyny and vehement anti-semitism. Read history and Wikipedia's own article on Islamofascism. Their historical imperialism of invading other nations and expelling or killing the indigenous people and replacing it with their own is a perfect portrait of the kind of violent nationalism practiced by the Nazis in WW2. 00:10, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia's article calls it a neologism and gives examples of use by Mike Huckabee, Clifford May and George Bush. - -sche (discuss) 00:44, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
It also gives Christopher Hitchen's elucidation of the word. And I wouldn't consider George Bush to have the credibility to define apples and bananas let alone a "neological" word.
The current definition is way too vague, clarifies nothing about the "fascism" part and to say its "pejorative" and "offensive" to criticize a radical ideology is biased and idiotic. Any word can be a pejorative. I find it offensive to be called a Republican. :) 01:29, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Holocaust denial[edit]

The request for deletion failed, so you delete the article, giving as a reason the fact that the request failed? How is that not ridiculous? kwami (talk) 01:21, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

If you look at WT:RFD#holocaust_survivor (and its subsections WT:RFD#Holocaust_denial and WT:RFD#Holocaust_denier), you'll see that the terms have failed RFD, per overwhelming consensus, in a new RFD which followed the one archived on Talk:Holocaust denial and addressed points which the archived discussion did not. In particular, the previous RFD proceeded under the assumption that Holocaust denial referred only to denial of the Shoah, and thus was not SOP, but RFV showed that assumption to be false. - -sche (discuss) 01:35, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
@Kwamikagami, "RFD failed" does not mean the request failed but that the entry failed the idiomacity test during RFD and therefore should be deleted. --WikiTiki89 13:14, 8 January 2013 (UTC)


realise being away from wiktionary for a few years or more might be a culture shock, but interested to see at Java - the line - (computing, trademark) An object-oriented, garbage-collected computer programming language. surely that is deliberate vandalism? I find it astonishing someone hasnt picked up on it. cheers sats (talk) 07:49, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi! That wording threw me off at first, too, but it turns out "garbage collection" is a programming term. (If you don't think it's appropriate to say Java "garbage collects", I suggest you discuss that with our resident programmers by posting on Talk:Java.)
nah - thanks for the clearing the red link - it is now self explanatory, as a red link it was suspect - cheers. sats (talk) 08:20, 7 February 2013 (UTC)


Two questions:

  1. Is there a comprehensive list of his socks anywhere? Because User:LightningNightling, at least, has edited on other projects.
  2. User:AVerSiMeDejan is quacking like he's Lucifer, i.e., editing articles that combine penises with other words. Do you think he might be a Lucifer sock?

I come to you because that's where I was sent when I brought these questions up on IRC Purplebackpack89 (Notes Taken) (Locker) 06:22, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

I don't know of a comprehensive list, but it might be worthwhile to compile one. Some other socks have been discussed here: WT:Beer parlour/2013/February#Lucifer_is_back. As for AVerSiMeDejan: yup, that's him (and I see Dvortygirl has now blocked him). - -sche (discuss) 06:33, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Definition vs etymology[edit]

Etymology does not belong on the definition line. That is my normative stance and that is the current practice in English Wiktionary. Hence my reverts at unschön. If you are saying that English Wiktionary often does place etymological and morphological information on the definition line, can you show me the evidence, ideally in the form of a significant number of entries that do that? --Dan Polansky (talk) 12:05, 16 February 2013 (UTC)


Your bot messed this up. Fixed. SemperBlotto (talk) 18:45, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing that. Though I was using AWB, I was making changes like that by hand, so there shouldn't be any other errors like that out there, unless I typoed the same word twice. - -sche (discuss) 19:07, 17 April 2013 (UTC)


Hi -sche, is there a specific reason why you deleted Template:twd? -- 01:22, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

The Dutch sub-dialects of Dutch Low Saxon / Low German, including {{twd}}, were deleted following much discussion in the Beer Parlour in March and November (and on RFDO and even right here on my talk page), discussion which culminated in this RFM discussion. - -sche (discuss) 02:13, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll read those discussions. -- 17:11, 27 April 2013 (UTC)


In edit 19167247 on Citations:Srebrenica you added "bevolkering" (cf. nl:bevolking, de:Bevölkerung), are you sure? If you aren't sure please check the hyphen in "onuit-voerbaar" too. -- 23:40, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

logorrhea and logorrhoea[edit]

I one believes, you should be making logorrhea the main entry rather than logorrhoea. The former seems to be slightly more common even for British English, as per --Dan Polansky (talk) 20:50, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Nice research! I've been merging duplicated entries two pairs at a time, centralising the content of one pair in the US spelling, and the other in the UK spelling. If logorrhea is more common in both places, though, it should certainly be the lemma. I'll make the switch. - -sche (discuss) 03:41, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Albanian translation of adjective[edit]

The noun sense used the code "als" which you deleted. I'm not sure what to do with it. Can you have a look? —CodeCat 01:24, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

The Albanian section at di also used it. There are probably more uses that are now causing script errors that will appear as the software updates it. —CodeCat 01:27, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

I have a hard time believing adjektiv is used in tosk but not standard Albanian; I'm looking into that.
I'm curious as to why these pages didn't show up as transcluding the template before. (I did check.) - -sche (discuss) 01:35, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
Possibly because the templates have already been partially migrated over to the module. As of right now, having no transclusions is no guarantee that a code is not used. —CodeCat 01:38, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
I found another: ka#Albanian. Strangely I've noticed a few pages that use "als" for Alemannic German instead, even though the code for that is "gsw"... —CodeCat 13:40, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, the Alemannic wikis use the code "als", so people just assume it's the ISO code. - -sche (discuss) 16:31, 24 May 2013 (UTC)


In Hamburg scheint es un zu heißen, vgl. —Angr 20:08, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Jup. Und wenn ich die Zeit (und das Buch) finde, kuck ich in ein schleswigsches Wörterbuch. - -sche (discuss) 20:27, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
Also ich würde fast schon un als Hauptform und on als Alternative bezeichnen. Was meinst du? —Angr 20:31, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
OK :) - -sche (discuss) 22:54, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Appendix:English terms of Native North American origin[edit]

This page has some script errors since your last edit(s). I don't know if those edits caused it, but you seem to be the editor who has worked most on this page. Can you have a look? —CodeCat 21:19, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Certainly. I switched it from directly calling language templates to using etyl, in preparation for the day the language templates are deleted... but it seems I made some typos in my regex (and/or some of the templates are unhappy about finding family codes where they expect language codes). - -sche (discuss) 21:38, 26 May 2013 (UTC)


You made error at Christian-- 15:16, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

I don't think so. Isn't it straightforward that Greek 'Χριστιανός' is from Greek 'Χριστός' + Greek '-ιανός', not Greek 'Χριστός' plus a Latin suffix? The Latin term was probably respelled under the influence of Latin '-anus', but that's a rather different matter. In any case, I've posted in Wiktionary's etymology discussion room, so more people can comment.

Translingual translations[edit]

There is a case for them. For example, when there is no single English term that exactly corresponds, which is surprisingly often. If I can't find an English vernacular name for a taxon, I often add a translation table, especially if the taxon is not located in or near an English-speaking country. I sometimes add translation requests specific to the range of the taxon. DCDuring TALK 00:37, 30 May 2013 (UTC)


I think this edit is problematic because it emphasises the legal system even though there are some denominations of Islam which do not have a legal system in that sense. Such as five percenters, Quranists, Sufis, liberal Muslims and others. Do you mind if i reinstate the previous def? I made a compromise entry you could check out. Pass a Method (talk) 09:26, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Other dictionaries (of English and of Arabic) tend to define the word as "forbidden", which is why I think that's a better definition than "sinful". Would "forbidden according to Islam" work? (Note also that one can speak of pork or adultery being forbidden by "Biblical law" even though not all Jews/Christians believe the Bible is "law".) - -sche (discuss) 20:24, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
Some dictionary entries can be biased. The current definition is neutral. Forbidden is misleading because it negates the concept of mawazeen meaning weighing scales with which the word haram is often used in the Quran. The word forbidden makes less sense with that usage. Pass a Method (talk) 22:27, 30 May 2013 (UTC)


This edit of yours is also problematic since ditheism means the deities can be in conflict whereas this is not the case in major duotheitic faiths such as Wicca. Do you mind if i revert back to "bitheism"? Pass a Method (talk) 09:41, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Your comment prompted me to look into the meanings of "bitheism" and "ditheism", and although several of the general-purpose reference works I checked give them both the same short definition (belief in two deities), more detailed references do make a split. I learned something new today!
I've reverted to "bitheism", and tried to expand our entry on ditheism. (And then there's [[duotheism]]... what a curious web of superficially/etymologically synonymous but now specialised terms.) - -sche (discuss) 20:37, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

New appendix[edit]

As a participant in an associated discussion, you are invited to contribute to the list of terms and criteria at Appendix:Terms considered difficult or impossible to translate into English. Cheers,   — C M B J   10:46, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

board and labels[edit]

Though my German is not adequate to the task, I gather that you have sense developments under Herkunft at de.wikt's entry for board and that you include metonymy among the rationales. I personally find such an approach very interesting for many polysemic words, whether or not their ultimate etymology is as disputed as that or board. OTOH, I doubt that such information will help increase use of Wiktionary by normal people.

This is why I have been interested in whether we could both include that type of content and exclude it by default from what unregistered users see and allow registered users to see whichever layers of it they wanted. At the sense level this would involve allowing different types of labels to be optionally displayed as mentioned at Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2013/June#Lua-cising_Template:context. At the sense level I was thinking of some of the sense-level semantic-syntactic classification categories as examples of material to be invisible by default. Sense development has broader appeal and so might sometimes seem more worthy of display, but I doubt that it is usually of sufficient interest.

As to [[board]], why wouldn't we want to be splitters, not lumpers under our current format.

Though [[board]] makes a subordinated etymology header and an all-derivations listing of definitions seem advantageous, it does seem an exceptional case. DCDuring TALK 20:11, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Basically, the "plank of wood" sense of board derives from Proto-Germanic *burda, *burdam, from PIE *bʰrdʰo, while the "side of a ship" sense derives from PG *bordaz, from PIE *bʰordʰo. Though they're still separate in German, the two words merged so early in the history of Old English that I don't think it's wrong to combine them under one etymological header, especially given how many senses developed after the merger. I think it would be sufficient to explain the two roots in en:board’s single etymology section, collapsed under {{rel-top}} if desired. (OTOH, I'd certainly be willing to split the homographs, if desired.)
Yes, board is an exceptional case. European languages in general tend (fortunately?) not to have the sort of confusingly synonymous but etymologically unrelated and non-homophonous homographs that Japanese has. Most of the homographs English does have, like mole /ˈmoʊleɪ/ "sauce" and mole /ˈmoʊl/ "animal", are unambiguously separate words. - -sche (discuss) 21:03, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
I don't think there is really a separate Germanic etymology for the two words. The current one can't be correct in any case, because there was no short o in Proto-Germanic. So if they were indeed separate, then the gender (and corresponding ending) was the only difference: *burdą, *burdaz. Is this gender distinction really consistently applied in all Germanic languages to the point that it is reconstructable for Proto-Germanic? —CodeCat 21:12, 8 June 2013 (UTC)


According to w:Vitellaria paradoxa, the word shea is not pronounced [ʃɛɪ] but [ʃiː], just like the pronoun she – and unlike the name Shea, which you may have been thinking of! – or also [ʃiː.ə], which makes sense given the origin in Bambara ʃi. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 21:37, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Template:biblical character[edit]

On November 4, 2012, you have removed this template from several entries but, contrary to your promise in the deletion discussion ("As for the cleanup, it won't be hard; I'll do it"), you have not added {gloss|biblical figure} nor [Category:xx:Biblical characters]. So how do you propose to go on? Category:Biblical characters is not up to deletion. English John has 7 definitions, so the definition "John" is meaningless without a gloss. I have no time to clean up and check all your contributions. Makaokalani (talk) 11:11, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

lorem ipsum[edit]

Hi. May I ask you why you are inspecting so many entries with liggies in ’em? Curious. --Æ&Œ (talk) 23:27, 25 June 2013 (UTC)


Did you notice this thread? I'd like your input as chief Wiktionary langcode-wrangler. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 21:58, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Wiktionary talk:Languages[edit]

I am not sure if that is the best place to put old deletion debates. I don't really know what would be either though. Module talk:languages might be better, but even so it might get flooded with archived debates unless we do something to manage them. —CodeCat 00:04, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

One of the shortcuts to WT:Languages, and one of the two big things that page deals with, is WT:LANGNAMES, so it makes more sense to me to put old discussions about renaming languages there than on a backend module's talkpage. But perhaps we should make a new page just for storing language rename discussions? We could then add a line to WT:LANGTREAT (and other pages) linking to it. - -sche (discuss) 00:14, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
Maybe a subpage could be dedicated to archiving such discussions? Just to get them "out of the way"? It seems less related to WT:LANGNAMES because that page deals more with the general naming scheme and not with individual languages. That is more WT:LANGTREAT. At the same time, the actual change is effected on Module:languages, and this is reflected on WT:LANGLIST in turn. So it's not really straightforward where this "belongs". —CodeCat 00:25, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
I like the idea of a subpage. How's Wiktionary:Language treatment/Renames sound? - -sche (discuss) 00:50, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
What about deletions? —CodeCat 00:52, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
Hm, come to think of it, what about mergers? Perhaps we need subpages for each kind of change in language treatment. (Or one subpage for any kind of change — I'm sorry, btw, if that's what you were getting at above and I densely missed it — but I think such a page would become quite large quite fast.) Wiktionary:Language treatment/Renames, Wiktionary:Language treatment/Mergers, Wiktionary:Language treatment/Deletions (or "Exclusions"?), Wiktionary:Language treatment/Additions?
I've made Wiktionary:Language treatment/Discussions for now. - -sche (discuss) 04:13, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

XPQ language code[edit]

Which language code is XPQ? Just out of curiosity :) Cheers, Razorflame 02:55, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

It's the code of the Mohegan-Pequot language. If you're curious about any others, all 1000+ of them are listed in WT:LANGLIST. - -sche (discuss) 03:01, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the information! I greatly appreciate it! Razorflame 03:02, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

re: [1][edit]

I don't think that's an insult at all. I was just commenting the fact that CodeCat built this Lua infrastructure that pretty much everything in Wiktionary depends on, and whenever a script error shows up anywhere, he's going to be blamed for it. Though he does seem to be a bit careless, because I see random script errors pop up and disappear everywhere these days. -- Liliana 20:13, 6 August 2013 (UTC)


Regarding this edit [2]: you seem to be suggesting that the gloss on an alt form is additional to the gloss on the original form, e.g. if a word is glossed obsolete, and its alt form is glossed obsolete form of X, then you are saying that the alt form is even more obsolete than the main entry. That might be a good idea but I don't think that's how many entries have been done. Equinox 00:35, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

It is the usual practice that alternative forms, past tense forms, etc are not glossed as "rare", "obsolete", etc unless they are rarer / more obsolete than the lemma. "Adjuting", for example, is not marked {{obsolete}}, because it is no more obsolete than "adjute" as a whole is. I have found old (pre-2008) entries that deviate from that practice, but they're unusual and I've changed them as I've come across them.
That said, this brings the real problem with our [[ya'll]] entry into focus: it treats one dialect's word as an alternative form of another dialect's term rather than as a counterpart of a standard-language term. That is to say, "ya'll" is a word in AAVE, "y'all" is a word in white Southern US English, "you-uns" is a word in Appalachian, all are nonstandard counterparts of the standard language's plain plural "you", and we'd probably be better off treating each as its own entry rather than treating some as alt forms of others, even if that's etymologically how they came about. - -sche (discuss) 01:30, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Help with an abnormal title[edit]

I need to know if it is possible to have A2 as a title. See A2 (aortic second sound). As the abbreviation is with the subscript. Thanks Speednat (talk) 02:06, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

You can use the subscript-2 character (as in H₂O) but I'm not sure it's a good idea. Equinox 02:08, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
What Equinox said. "₂" exists, and Wiktionary sometimes uses it (and similar characters), but sometimes doesn't. I would point you to geological and musical terms that use (or don't use) underlines and overlines and tiny numbers, but I'm having a hard time finding any. (I know they exist, somewhere...) - -sche (discuss) 04:02, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
As of now, I will leave it as is w/o subscript except in the article I think I specify that the subscript is present Speednat (talk) 21:49, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

new German adjectives[edit]

Hi there. You don't need to add brand new German adjectives (or nouns) to the bot's feedme page. They will be actioned automatically (normally within a day). Cheers SemperBlotto (talk) 16:51, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Cool, thanks for the tip! - -sche (discuss) 16:53, 9 March 2013 (UTC)


On my page. Pass a Method (talk) 21:27, 10 March 2013 (UTC)


Is the following a grammatically correct sentence? Synonyms of heterosexual include straight, and hyponyms include heteroflexible.. Pass a Method (talk) 14:36, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

It's a grammatically correct sentence, yes. ([plural noun] [preposition] [variable (a)] [plural verb] [variable (b)] [conjunction] [plural noun] [implied but unstated clause: preposition + variable (a)] [plural verb] [variable (c)].) Whether it's logically/semantically correct is another question: it could be argued that "heteroflexible" is a hyponym of "bisexual" rather than of "heterosexual". - -sche (discuss) 19:59, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
I was wondering whether "synonyms" should be singular instead of plural. Pass a Method (talk) 20:10, 12 March 2013 (UTC)


My first thought when I saw that word was "rock festival"... —CodeCat 03:07, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

lol! Whenever I see "Rockband" I think Rock (skirt) + Band (band (of cloth)). - -sche (discuss) 03:28, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


Hi -sche, Today I find abundant durably-archived attestations for mentulomania using Google Books. For example "(1918) The Urologic and Cutaneous Review - Volume 22, Issue 3 - Page 147", "(1898) An Illustrated Dictionary of Medicine, Biology and Allied Sciences - Page 746", "(1919) The American journal of surgery - Volume 33 - Page 193". Please undelete the page for this legitimate medical term. Keith Cascio (talk) 02:57, 22 April 2013 (UTC)