User talk:Catsidhe

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Again, welcome! —Angr 20:43, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

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Contents

Thread titleRepliesLast modified
Edits to {{ga-noun}}207:03, 20 September 2014
Moving.022:31, 21 July 2014
Das Deutsch307:34, 21 July 2014
ga-adj106:42, 5 June 2014
About Irish014:53, 31 January 2013
{{temp|str right}}520:49, 14 January 2013
Comments on your Old Irish subpages412:00, 25 May 2012

Edits to {{ga-noun}}

Hi, could you update Template:ga-noun/documentation to reflect the changes you just made? It looks like you added an option for a second genitive form, which is fine (though apart from talamh I can't think of any Irish nouns with more than one genitive form), but it looks like you might also have added an option for "no genitive". As far as I know, all Irish nouns have a genitive, although in fourth-declension nouns it has the same form as the nominative.

Aɴɢʀ (talk)06:19, 20 September 2014

Yeah, I can do that. The "no genitive" option was already there, I just did a cut and paste from what was there. (It was probably cut and pasted from somewhere else ... should I change "no genitive" to repeat the nominative lemma in that position?)

I included it for beithir, which is declined in Old Irish as both what looks like ī-stem as beithre, and as gutteral stem as bethrach. Dinneen gives only the ī-stem genitive, but Ó Dónaill gives beithreach as a variant, and beathrach is the regular genitive in Scottish Gaelic (according to Dwelly, anyway).

I'll clean up and document the changes for ga-noun. I think I will add pl2= as well

Catsidhe (verba, facta)06:34, 20 September 2014

Looks fine. Thanks!

Aɴɢʀ (talk)07:03, 20 September 2014
 
 

Just letting you know that I moved your post from Translation Requests to WT:INFO. I hope you don't mind, I didn't think that it belonged in Translation Requests, since it wasn't supposed to translate anything.

LalalalaSta (talk)22:31, 21 July 2014

Das Deutsch

   [smile] As you showed interest (and lack of offence) enuf to have replied, you certainly deserve a translation; i'm no doubt a lousy judge of how many people can puzzle out that sentence. I might do better using a consultant, but i think this is prolly pretty close:

"In Deutsch" is frequently described as [an] Englishism [or anglicism?], as [an] excessively word-for-word version of "in German".

I'm interested to notice that i accept those omissions of indefinite articles; i think they reflect a handful of verbs that call for the "as" equivalent "als", but not for an article. I don't think either of my teachers discussed the phenomenon, but they they must have tacitly demonstrated it.

--Jerzyt
06:10, 18 July 2014

   I looked some more at the page, which says (bcz it's on an English-language collection of "sites", apparently)

German Language Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for speakers of German wanting to discuss the finer points of the language and translation.

despite all the discussion being conducted in German.
   You might be interested that translation into German is "in Deutsch", and (i guess i was careless) for example, "... im deutschen Gebrauch..." would, i think, be correct for "... in German-language usage...". The word "im" is a contraction of "in dem" ("in the", with dative case reflected), and there are places (of course, i guess) where they expect a definite article but we would find its use there stilted.
   There are a lot of cases subtle enuf that it stopped being fun to read them. (BTW, you might, as a more serious lexicographer than i, be interested in wikipedia:Duden which describes a great example of deutsche Grundlichkeit or German thoroughness; the participants in the GLSE keep saying "Look, here's what Duden has about yet another special case.")
   Thanks again,

--Jerzyt
07:18, 18 July 2014

I have great sympathy for Mark Twain when he wrote

Surely there is not another language that is so slipshod and systemless, and so slippery and elusive to the grasp. One is washed about in it, hither and thither, in the most helpless way; and when at last he thinks he has captured a rule which offers firm ground to take a rest on amid the general rage and turmoil of the ten parts of speech, he turns over the page and reads, "Let the pupil make careful note of the following exceptions." He runs his eye down and finds that there are more exceptions to the rule than instances of it.

But then you take a look at Old Irish verb conjugations, and crawl back to German, everything forgiven.

Catsidhe (verba, facta)07:25, 18 July 2014

  I think my German teacher quoted part of that essay, which i think of as something close to "The Horrible German Language". What i specifically recall was a supposed job title, close to "Oberlandesbaudirektionsrechnungsabteilungsrevisionsassistent".

Jerzyt07:34, 21 July 2014
 
 
 

Hi, are you thinking about making the headword template for Irish adjectives, {{ga-adj}}?

Lo Ximiendo (talk)06:41, 5 June 2014

It has crossed my mind.

Catsidhe (verba, facta)06:42, 5 June 2014
 

About Irish

I have recently expanded the page Wiktionary:About Irish. Please take a look, be bold in changing it, and make comments on the talk page. Thanks!

Angr14:53, 31 January 2013

{{temp|str right}}

If {{str right}} were restored, would it be able to check the last letter of a preceding string? In particular, what I would like to do is make a declension-table template for Lower Sorbian, in which t and d sometimes turns into ś and ź respectively, except that st and zd turn into and zdź. So given a template input like {{dsb-decl-n-18|blabla|t}} it would generate blablaśe, but given {{dsb-decl-n-18|blablas|t}} it would see the "s" at the end of the first parameter and generate blablasće rather than *blablasśe. Is that doable?

Angr20:23, 13 January 2013

It's theoretically doable, but there are complications. Main amongst these is the {{str len}} function being a crawling horror.

And yet... It looks like some actual string parsing functions may now be enabled as inherent functions (which is to say, Special:Version mentions having https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ParserFunctions enabled, which appears to have https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:StringFunctions mostly folded into it, which actually features useful tools.

I'll have to experiment with seeing if it actually works, and if it does, quite a lot of things will suddenly become easier, and more will become practically possible.

Give me some time to have a hack around and see what works...

Catsidhe (talk)23:26, 13 January 2013

I take it back. The string extensions are not enabled on Wiktionary.

From a quick look what it requires for them to be enabled is

Add to the bottom of LocalSettings.php:
require_once( "$IP/extensions/ParserFunctions/ParserFunctions.php" );
If you want to use the integrated string function functionality, add just after that line
$wgPFEnableStringFunctions = true;

which is something the Site admins have to do.

Once that's done, taking the final character of a string is a native expression (not a template function), and as simple as {{#pos:string|-1}}, which currently is invalid, but if/when the string extensions are enabled, will return "g". (And {{#pos:string|-2}} returns "ng", etc.

With String Extensions enabled, a lot of things which are currently difficult, impossible, or so expensive as to be dangerous, become trivial.

Catsidhe (talk)01:16, 14 January 2013

Why in hell do we not have this enabled???? I thought the devs were opposed to it or something, but it seems like it'd be ridiculous to keep going on without string manipulation and hoping that Scribunto will be deployed (will that even happen this year?).

Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds01:57, 14 January 2013

To the Batmobile Grease Pit!

- -sche (discuss)02:21, 14 January 2013

Well, for now, I've made {{dsb-decl-noun-2}} such that the user simply has to specify whether the stem ends in d/t or zd/st. Ain't nobody got time for that!

Angr20:46, 14 January 2013
 
 
 
 
 

Comments on your Old Irish subpages

I would have left comments on the talk pages of your subpages, but I'm not sure you'd see them. User talk:Catsidhe/sga-lenite, for example, is considered a subpage of your talk page, not the talk page of a subpage of your user page, so watchlisting one doesn't entail watchlisting the other. Anyway:

User:Catsidhe/sga-lenite
As in Modern Irish, s doesn't lenite in Old Irish before c m p t, only before vowels and l n r, so for s it's necessary to see what the following letters is.
User:Catsidhe/Old Irish Nouns
Declension-table templates are usually named "xx-decl-...", so when you make these into full-fledged templates they should be named things like {{sga-decl-m}}, {{sga-decl-m2}}, {{sga-decl-n}}, {{sga-decl-f}}, and the like. Also, per WT:ASGA, lenited f and s are shown unchanged in name pages, so when things like ḟer appear in tables, the link should be [[fer|ḟer]], not [[ḟer]].
Angr20:41, 24 May 2012

Re: lenition of s: thank you. That was exactly the detail I knew I was missing, but could neither remember nor find. I suppose the {{sga-lenite|w}}ord invocation will need to be strongly deprecated, then.

Re: naming: I would be replacing the tables with their *2 version, of which only the masc exists so far. It's complicated to write, and complicated squared to do anything clever.

Re: page titles: I'm ahead of you there. If you look at the *2 template, it shows the lenited/nasalised version, but links to the unmutated form.

Part of the joy is figuring out how to do the calculations of which form to infer if it's not specified for a given declension. This, of course, changes per stem as well as per gender. -o- and -io- currently get a correct table with only ns, as, gs and ds supplied. I'm trying to extract these patterns from Strachan and to a lesser extent Thurneysen, but it's almost as brain-stretching as is writing the templates in the first place.

--Catsidhe (talk) 20:52, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Catsidhe (talk)20:52, 24 May 2012

But as I've mentioned somewhere else, I'm not sure we should be listing inferred forms. Old Irish is a very unpredictable language, and it may be best if we list only forms that are actually attested, not forms that are inferred or reconstructed.

Also, I see I was mistaken: User talk:Catsidhe/sga-lenite is considered the talk page of User:Catsidhe/sga-lenite, so I could have commented there, but this way the conversation is all in one place.

Angr22:28, 24 May 2012

Unpredictable, at times, and often opaque, but hardly random.

How about, then: if no stem is given ({{sga-decl-m||..., then no inferral is done. Otherwise, inferral per standard tables. -o- and -io- stems are pretty well attested, and Strachan does point out that, eg., Vocative forms aren't provided for any consonantal stem cases because vs=ns and vp=ap for all of them. In any case, an override is fairly simple to provide.

It's also possible (although tricky) to set up an override such that if, say, as is not provided then it is replaced with vs, but if it is provided but blank (ie., ...|as=|..., then it is left blank in the table. (ie., overridden with nothing at all.)

Catsidhe (talk)00:31, 25 May 2012

Those both sound look good ideas.

Angr12:00, 25 May 2012