User talk:CodeCat

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Thread titleRepliesLast modified
CONGLATURATION509:48, 28 January 2015
pt-verb/conj702:24, 27 January 2015
Ejakulacija edit200:44, 27 January 2015
User rights300:06, 26 January 2015
nrf for Norman319:10, 25 January 2015
vrddhi gerundive220:57, 22 January 2015
manslaughter416:22, 19 January 2015
Blasphemy page021:56, 17 January 2015
Serbian 100:56, 17 January 2015
Copyright and tags018:10, 12 January 2015
Entry formating222:39, 9 January 2015
Latn translit519:29, 8 January 2015
Maas501:50, 8 January 2015
Uuuuum, what?019:12, 6 January 2015
Template:et-conj-õppima117:45, 6 January 2015
manchu118:20, 3 January 2015
Template:es-noun000:16, 3 January 2015
biplaza and other Spanish adjectives300:17, 2 January 2015
Another thing with Spanish100:02, 2 January 2015
hoorntje114:40, 1 January 2015
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You broke WT:FSCK#Output and WT:LOL#n.

Keφr18:54, 26 January 2015

And xte. Also, why the camel case when all the other fields use underscores? This is a quite jarring inconsistency.

Keφr19:15, 26 January 2015

xte shouldn't be broken, as only the data format has changed, not the functions.

CodeCat19:15, 26 January 2015

xte bypasses them.

Keφr23:22, 26 January 2015

Well there's your problem...

CodeCat23:32, 26 January 2015

It has to bypass them, otherwise it would DoS the WMF servers every time it encountered a larger translation table.

Keφr09:17, 27 January 2015


Hi, I'm currently working on replacements for {{pt-verb}} and {{pt-conj}}. The verb headwords are now generated using the new module you added recently which I modified (Module:User:Jberkel/pt-headword). Since I just started working with modules on Wiktionary could you take a quick look and see if my changes make sense ? To summarise, I did the following:

Jberkel (talk)16:25, 23 January 2015

It seems rather complicated for something that could really be much simpler than that.

CodeCat16:56, 23 January 2015

I'm not sure how this could be made much simpler. It's quite easy to understand compared to the current version and its nested template madness (pt-verb/doWork/add etc). And the code I wrote is not doing much - some lookups and data presentation. How would you simplify this ?

Jberkel (talk)17:19, 23 January 2015

Well, the templates that Daniel Carrero made are often quite convoluted.

As far as generating a table goes, I use the approach you see in Module:hu-nominals. At the bottom is a make_table function which takes a list of forms and puts them in a table. Everything in the tableCreator module could replaced with a function like that, in theory.

While having the endings as pure data can work, there are often situations where the preceding stem changes depending on what kind of ending is added, and other things like that. So my preference is to treat inflection types as functions, rather than as lists of endings. That way it's much easier to account for predictable changes.

CodeCat17:35, 23 January 2015

Agreed, the table generation code is not straightforward, but there are a few conditionals in there. It also combines the functionality of both {{pt-conj-2pp}} and {{pt-conj}}. As for the data-based approach, it is obviously not as powerful and elegant as a generative approach but simple to implement and understand.

My goal was to create a drop-in replacement for the current inflection code which would produce exactly the same output, with better performance and maintainability.

Once that is in place we can look at ways to replace the data with generators, I think Ungoliant_MMDCCLXIV (talkcontribs) had some ideas for that already. I'm a fan of doing refactorings step-by-step and not in one big swoop.

Jberkel (talk)18:27, 23 January 2015

I prefer doing it step by step as well. I guess it's just because I've done this many times already, I am able to skip some steps.

CodeCat20:17, 23 January 2015

Ejakulacija edit

CodeCat your bot has reverted my edit in error

==Slovene== added ==Serbo-Croatian== removed. Please re-Revert.


BigBearLovesPanda (talk)22:35, 26 January 2015

No, the entry is for Serbo-Croatian, your edit was a mistake.

CodeCat22:36, 26 January 2015

The English translation link to the Slovene page directed to the Serbo-Croatian page by mistake though it wasn't immediately obvious in the Wiktionary Android App I use on my Tablet. I'll create a Slovene page and hopefully the Translation link will then work correctly.

BigBearLovesPanda (talk)00:44, 27 January 2015

User rights

Hi, CodeCat! I noticed that you just revoked my rights as autopatroller. If I may ask, what is the reason for this?

WikiWinters (talk)23:19, 25 January 2015

I noticed you have been making several edits today that seemed to contain some rather sloppy mistakes. Some examples:

And that's just from your last 50 edits.

CodeCat23:38, 25 January 2015

I apologize. Is there any possibility for redemption of autopatrolling rights?

WikiWinters (talk)23:44, 25 January 2015

Autopatrolling is not a right as such, because it doesn't affect anything a user does. Rather it affects what other users see. It's granted when a user's edits can be trusted to contain no significant number of mistakes, meaning that they no longer need consistent reviewing. I removed autopatrolling for you because the examples above meant that your edits do need reviewing IMO. I could have reviewed and fixed them all myself, but removing autopatrolling would bring it to the attention of other editors as well.

So I would say that it can be activated again if there is some indication that your edits no longer need checking.

CodeCat00:06, 26 January 2015

nrf for Norman

OK, so if I want to edit Module:wikimedia_languages/data so that it knows that what we call "nrf" is what Wikipedia calls "nrm", can I write:

m["nrm"] = {
        wiktionary_code = "roa-nor", "nrf",

or do I have to repeat the whole shebang and write:

m["nrm"] = {
        wiktionary_code = "roa-nor",

m["nrm"] = {
        wiktionary_code = "nrf",

in full? I don't want to eliminate "roa-nor" yet, because there are still pages that use that.

Aɴɢʀ (talk)18:46, 25 January 2015

Neither would work. The first would trigger an error, and in the second example the second definition will override the first.

CodeCat19:04, 25 January 2015

So there's no way to get both {{wikipedia|lang=roa-nor}} and {{wikipedia|lang=nrf}} to point to w:nrm:?

Aɴɢʀ (talk)19:07, 25 January 2015

Module:wikimedia languages/data defines the mapping from Wikimedia languages to Wiktionary ones. So it's what you'd use if you have a Wikimedia code and want to convert it to a local code. What you're doing is the reverse, which is handled by our regular language modules.

CodeCat19:10, 25 January 2015

vrddhi gerundive

Edited by author.
Last edit: 20:57, 22 January 2015

Kroonen calls adjectives of the type *mētiz(from *metaną), *bēriz(from *beraną) "vrddhi gerundives". Should we follow suit? Or is it okay to call them long-grade verbal adjectives?

Anglom (talk)20:31, 3 May 2014

I would prefer the latter as it's clearer.

CodeCat20:31, 3 May 2014

Alright, thank you.

Anglom (talk)20:32, 3 May 2014


Hey. Since you're a native speaker of both English and Dutch: manslaughter is defined as "killing someone unlawfully, but not willfully", and it's translated with German Totschlag and Dutch doodslag. Something's wrong here because the English definition doesn't fit the German and (I'm quite sure) Dutch meaning. "Totschlag" is killing willfully but without prearrangement. Now, is the English definition wrong? Or are the translations wrong? Maybe you could help if you have the time. Thanks.

Kolmiel (talk)01:36, 18 January 2015

This is mostly a legal distinction so I don't really know all the relevant definitions, as it may be different from place to place.

The Dutch Wikipedia says:

Doodslag is het opzettelijk, maar niet met voorbedachten rade, beroven van het leven van een ander. Wanneer er wel sprake is van voorbedachten rade, spreekt men van moord.
"Doodslag" is to purposefully, but not with prearrangement, take the life of another. When there is prearrangement, one speaks of murder.

And in the links to other articles, the link to the English Wikipedia points to "Manslaughter".

CodeCat01:40, 18 January 2015

Yeah, it would take a legal expert in both "continental European" and "Anglo-Saxon" law... But at any rate Totschlag/doodslag is always willful. German Wikipedia's definitions of "Totschlag" for Germany, Austria, and Switzerland all specifically use the word "vorsätzlich" (= opzettelijk).

I think the solution might be the following. English wikipedia distinguishes between w:voluntary manslaughter and w:involuntary manslaughter. Thus it seems that the definition of "manslaughter" in Wiktionary would have to be changed because manslaughter can indeed be willful. And "voluntary manslaughter" is the German/Dutch Totschlag/doodslag.

"Involuntary manslaughter" would be something else. In Germany there is Körperverletzung mit Todesfolge ("assault resulting in death") and fahrlässige Tötung ("negligent homicide"). But this is another topic, that would get to specialized for myself.

But I would feel comfortable to change the definition of manslaughter to something like: A criminal act of killing a human being considered less culpable than murder (based on w:Manslaughter). And then I would add "voluntary" in brackets to the German/Dutch translations. That should be fine, right?

Kolmiel (talk)16:12, 19 January 2015

Maybe you should ask in the Tea Room?

CodeCat16:13, 19 January 2015

Ok. Will do.

Kolmiel (talk)16:22, 19 January 2015

Blasphemy page

Your thoughts on current blasphemy page dispute would be appreciated in Tea house. See: [[Wiktionary:Tea_room/2015/January#Blasphemy]].

RLoutfy (talk)21:56, 17 January 2015

Dude, thanks a lot for the Serbian verbs...I am Albanian trying to learn Serbian and the conjugations were very very helpful...thanks!, 17 January 2015

I think you have the wrong person.

CodeCat00:56, 17 January 2015

Copyright and tags

Hi CodeCat,

Thanks for the heads up about potential Copyright infringement. I do find it strange that we are restricted to only adding entries from books that were written seventy years ago or more, it is ironic perhaps that the latest up to date technology may only cite works which were written a century ago; but those are the rules, and the law is the law.

I will not use Hyper Text Mark-Up language again, but use the tags you suggested.


Anglyn (talk)18:10, 12 January 2015

Entry formating

I'm just properly adjusting and standardizing some entries referring to Portuguese Internet slangs; as they are so they fit in the header "abbreviation" (as most of Internet/texting entries are set here). As to the removal of empty lines, they are sometimes necessary to conform with the rest in this dictionary. I think it would be very confuse if each entry is written in a different way.

Alumnum (talk)21:57, 9 January 2015

The "abbreviation" header has been deprecated for some time now. Entries shouldn't use it, instead the header for the appropriate part of speech should be used.

CodeCat22:12, 9 January 2015

You also used lang=en in a Portuguese entry, which added categories as if it were English. I try to always click "preview" and look at the entry before I save it, because there are always little details that get overlooked.

Chuck Entz (talk)22:39, 9 January 2015

Latn translit

Could you add a tracking category for {{t}}, {{term}} / {{m}}, and whatever else you think of, for languages with only Latn script but with a transliteration?

DTLHS (talk)00:22, 8 January 2015

A straight-up error would probably be better, as this is simply a mistake.

CodeCat00:45, 8 January 2015

Yes but there are some languages that should probably have another script specified (see the Madurese translation on elephant) where an error wouldn't make sense.

DTLHS (talk)00:48, 8 January 2015

But really, either way is fine with me.

DTLHS (talk)00:50, 8 January 2015

So are you going to do it or not?

DTLHS (talk)19:25, 8 January 2015


CodeCat19:29, 8 January 2015

Do you have a source to prove that German Maas is borrowed from Dutch? It doesn't make much sense to me because speakers of Central German and German Low Franconian have always lived so close to the river that the name can impossibly have been lost at some point in time. Maas would be the expected outcome of Germanic *Masō in these areas (which all have apocope). This is not to say that word “Maas” in modern standard German isn't based on Dutch at least to some degree. But I'm not sure about your statement that the word had died out in all languages but Dutch. See also the Rheinisches Wörterbuch where dozens of sayings involving the Maas are given: [1].

Kolmiel (talk)00:35, 8 January 2015

I think it would be more convincing if attestations could be found in OHG and MHG. Those would provide the "missing link" between Proto-Germanic and modern German. Dutch is the only descendant currently listed that has attestations going back that far.

CodeCat00:44, 8 January 2015

Well. You wouldn't find Old High German texts from these areas probably. MHG maybe. But it's you who made the claim that the word died out in all languages but Dutch. Now I don't see how the word can possibly have died out in the dialect of Aachen. That's a pretty daring claim when the river is less than 20 km from this city. So my opinion is that common sense proves that the Aachen dialect has always had a word for a major river less than 20 km from itself. And since (in my definition) it is a dialect of German, the word hasn't died out in German.

Kolmiel (talk)01:07, 8 January 2015

But then where are the attestations? Did people not write anything in Aachen until a few centuries ago?

CodeCat01:10, 8 January 2015

Yeah, you're right of course. One should look for attestations, for example the earliest attestation in a High German text. That has probably been done and I should check it sometime... But I still don't get on what you base your claim. If you say that a word died out in all Germanic languages except one, then I would presuppose that you yourself should have checked these languages for their earliest attestations. You wrote that the German word for "Maas" had died out (or never existed, I don't know). You also wrote that modern German "Maas" is borrowed from Dutch. Now if you say that you need proof, I guess. It's not me who needs to prove the contrary. And of course, if an unfounded claim makes perfect sense then I don't bother at all. (I'm not someone who says we need to quote seven books about something that is common sense.) But this is one thing that just doesn't make much sense to me (personally).-- Best regards, I'm going to bed.

Kolmiel (talk)01:38, 8 January 2015

I have checked, and didn't find any. That doesn't mean there aren't any, of course. Maybe I shouldn't have made that claim.

CodeCat01:50, 8 January 2015

Uuuuum, what?

Why exactly did you remove my word? It was made following the rules, and I used a template. The useable content was the description.

Flare1331 (talk)19:12, 6 January 2015

This one's had a module error for quite some time: apparently there were changes to the module that didn't take into account the special case of the template page itself. It doesn't affect anything in mainspace, so I never brought it up before- but we're down to the last few items in the category. Aside from a couple of fresh Chinese ones that Wyang will have to take care of, the only other one left is the pt-verb template- and that one can only be fixed by deleting it, driving a stake through it, and burying it in some deep, dark place...

Chuck Entz (talk)08:20, 6 January 2015

Ok, I fixed it.

CodeCat17:45, 6 January 2015

The module error here seems to be a side effect from your edits to Module:pt-headword, but I have no clue how to fix it.

Chuck Entz (talk)17:14, 3 January 2015

The error was already there before I made the module. It happens because the second parameter is "u", but there is no inflection type of that kind. The fix would be to use the named parameters instead of the numbered ones.

CodeCat18:20, 3 January 2015

I recently added a bit of code to Template:es-noun here, in the hope enable the generation a category of all Spanish nouns with missing plural. My efforts failed epically, as I don't know anything about modules. Could you please "translate" this "template language" into "module language"? BTW, I'll look at the documentation now too - never editted them before either...

Type56op9 (talk)00:16, 3 January 2015

biplaza and other Spanish adjectives

Hi CodeCat. I see you recently made big changes to Template:es-adj. Thanks for that, you always do great work with templates, although it means I usually have to relearn them every few years...Anyway, I just made the page biplaza, which has two plural forms - it is usually invariable, so has plural biplaza, but it can also have a "regular" plural form - biplazas. How could I show this using Template:es-adj?

Enterloppd (talk)23:39, 1 January 2015

Thank you for your compliment, that does mean a lot to me as not everyone thinks the same way about my work on modules and templates here.

I didn't change how the template works on the outside, other than remove some alternative parameter names that were rarely used anyway, so what you learned should still be valid. But there was (and is) no way to give multiple inflections, so to support your request I'd have to add a feature. I think the easiest way, which would fit best with how other templates work, would be just to add f2=, pl2= and so on. That way you could specify that a word has multiple possible alternatives.

CodeCat00:00, 2 January 2015

Unfortunately, I can't edit that page as it is protected, and I'm a "newbie editor". Would you do the honours?

Enterloppd (talk)00:01, 2 January 2015

Ok, I've added it to the template now. Could you update the documentation?

CodeCat00:17, 2 January 2015

Another thing with Spanish

Hi. Thanks for sorting out some Spanish past participles. I've noticed that hundreds have been fixed. However, there are still a few with incorrect format. One was arrastradas, which I've just fixed. Perhaps your bot could pick up some others in a similar vein to that one, seeing as you've been doing similar work recently.

Enterloppd (talk)23:59, 1 January 2015

How would a bot, or a Lua module for that matter, detect that the parameters are incorrect?

CodeCat00:02, 2 January 2015

Etymology 2 categorizes to the spectacularly useless redlinked Category:Dutch words suffixed with -tje, but it looks like there's more that needs to be fixed than just that, and I don't know enough Dutch. I've never seen this editor editing (non-English) Germanic languages before- perhaps there's a reason...

Chuck Entz (talk)03:57, 1 January 2015

I've removed the category, but I don't know this sense of the word at all. I'm tempted to remove it but I have found a few Google hits that seem to corroborate this sense, so it may be valid. I don't know if that makes the etymology valid too though.

CodeCat14:40, 1 January 2015
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