User talk:Kassios

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Welcome[edit]

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wiktionary. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:


I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wiktionarian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk (discussion) and vote pages using four tildes, like this: ~~~~, which automatically produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the beer parlour or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! —Dvortygirl 07:35, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

What about truth???[edit]

Hi Dvortygirl and all

I am Kassios from the Macedonia Region of Greece.

I would like to ask a few questions. I noticed that the article for Macedonia and Macedonian was insufficient, so I edited them with the etymology of the names and a link to a reference to the Macedonia Region of Greece, simply out of respect to truth and honesty. Then, naturally, I contributed with an article about the Macedonia Region of Greece (since there wasn’t one) and some information about it, like its capital, its population, its borders etc., with a link to an article about it on Wikipedia and a few external links, under the definition "Macedonia Region" so people could refer to it. Just simple information that anybody can find in any good dictionary or geography book, or with a simple search online by typing these words.

However, obviously that was not liked by the administrators Alexander 007 and SemberBlotto and my article was deleted within minutes! Quite surprised (and even shocked to be honest), since my article was very short and had just simple information and not any comment about the "Macedonian dispute" between Greece and FYROM -I am sure you are familiar with the issue - I tried to find out what I did wrong...!

So after thinking, the only thing I came up with was that maybe it was the definition "Macedonia Region" of Greece! Maybe it sounded "political incorrect" (unfortunately many people suffer from lack of history knowledge in our days) so I changed it to "Greek Region of Macedonia" and I even removed the link to the Wikipedia article about it and all the external links. But even that was not to be accepted by the above administrators, especially SemberBlotto and they deleted that too!!! Furthermore, they broke down the edit I had done to the article for Macedonian and from Greek Region of Macedonia, now it’s: Greek region of Macedonia which refers to three different things, like there isn’t such a think as a "Greek Region of Macedonia"!!! Like countries do not have regions and counties!!!

Now my questions:

What did I do wrong that led to my article being deleted twice???

Why is it ok for Wiktionary to have a definition under Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and not Greek Region of Macedonia???

Is it ok for people to know about the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia but not ok to know about the "Greek Region of Macedonia"???

Does Wiktionary refuse to acknowledge that there is a Macedonia Region in Greece??? Does where I live not actually exist???

Isn’t Wiktionary meant to be a "Free dictionary" that people can refer to for knowledge or is it one of the "WE-WILL-TELL-YOU-WHAT-WE-WANT-YOU-TO-KNOW" rubbish that is provided by tons online???

Do Wiktionary administrators have an agenda???

Because obviously its trustworthiness is tested right here!

With respect to truth and knowledge.

Kassios

A few clarifications, and then a response:
Alexander isn't an admin, a full list of admins can be found here. Not actually that important, just don't want Alexander being accused of things he can't do. ;)
I personally parsed down the Macedonia Region entry, my basis for this is simply that Wiktionary is not an Encyclopedia, and the entry was encyclopedic. The number of external links and ammount of information (population, history, etc.) are beyond the scope of this project, there was no political agenda in my edit.
I would assume that the reason that the FYROM article remains is that it is a nation (which we include) as opposed to a region, state, city or town, which we do not. For such content we rely on Wikipedia, who have that nice article on the region. - TheDaveRoss 18:16, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm not entirely sure why this note was addressed to me. I did not, as far as I know, have anything to do with this article. In general, we do have certain standards for acceptable entries. We also strive to have entries that contain a dictionary definition, generally brief. If you have information that should go in an encyclopedia, by all means, please put it there, instead. If you feel the names for this region that SemperBlotto suggested above are not sufficient, you may wish to bring the matter before the community here. Be prepared to demonstrate that the term is or was in common use. —Dvortygirl 03:42, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Macedonia[edit]

Yes, that would be fine. You might also like to expand those 13 periphery articles over on Wikipedia - they don't say much at the moment. By the way, you can sign your messages like this ~~~~ - that produces your user name and a date/time - like this SemperBlotto 15:42, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

"Assigned" sysop[edit]

Κασσιος, No, we don't assign you a sysop, but I'd be happy to try to answer questions and so on. I'm picturing here a team of waiters with assigned tables. The reality is more like Whac-A-Mole: wherever and whenever something or someone needs attention, that's where we go pay attention.

Anyway, your contributions so far look okay, generally, and I'm glad that someone here is doing things related to Greece. I'm looking forward to some translations in Greek, too, if you're up to it. I've studied only enough to get myself in trouble, and we don't have many people who claim to know it. --Dvortygirl 06:43, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

To put something into the Greek derivation category, simply type or paste into the page [[Category:Greek derivations]]
Be very careful that you type it exactly. Like all Wiktionary links, it is case-sensitive. If you preview the page, categories will show at the bottom, so scroll all the way down, and check that the link is blue. The page will automatically be added the category. To link to a category without adding the page to it, type a colon first, like this [[:Category:Greek derivations]]. --Dvortygirl 15:53, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

By the way, in an Etymology section, you can type {{Gr.}} instead of Greek and you get the category for free. SemperBlotto 17:51, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I think the categories are appearing in the order they appear on the page, and I don't think we pay very close attention to the order of the categories. I'd say just to add them and don't worry about it. --Dvortygirl 05:50, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Oops - I blocked the wrong person.[edit]

My eyesight must be getting worse. I meant to block the person next to you! Soory (you are now unblocked). SemperBlotto 17:40, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Redirects[edit]

REDIRECT# [[New [age]] is the syntax for a redirect. -- Tawker 18:25, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi Kassios! Actually, #redirect [[New [age]] is the correct one. I've corrected the ancient Greece entry so check it out. --Dijan 18:59, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Format[edit]

ALL entries must have a ===part of speech=== section. All definitions (even if only one) start with # not *. Cheers. SemperBlotto 20:03, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Dubuduba stuff[edit]

Yes please. Could you make all these into "proper" entries. His gstr template is nasty - nobody really knows what he is doing. SemperBlotto 19:49, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I understand that you are having some difficulties with User:Dubaduba's strange templates. Please feel free to redo them all. It may help you to first block and copy each of those pages before you open and edit it. Then open the page and replace the contents with what you have copied. That way there won’t be any templates to trouble you. —Stephen 02:59, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

On Etymology[edit]

I noticed you've described a lot of etymology entries as "Latinised Greek". I understand that many, many Latin words are of Greek origin, but are you sure "Latinised Greek" is a better way to describe them than "Latin"? It makes about as much sense to say that wine is "Anglicised Latin" or "Anglicised Greek" when most would just describe the word as "English". I changed the entry for wine in a way that still recognizes the Greek root, but doesn't call the Latin "Latinised Greek". I also added an etymology section to vinum. I think this is a better way to do things; what do you think? – Andyluciano 20:02, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand your position. Yes, they are borrowings from Greek. But they are also Latin, used every day by the Romans. What do other sources do for this? I looked at dictionary.reference.com's entry for wine[1] and it says: Middle English, from Old English win, from Latin vinum. It makes no mention of Greek. It is Latin. Just as on Wiktionary, it lists jalapeño as an English word, even though it is an obvious borrowing. – Andyluciano 12:32, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Similarly the entry for govern[2] at the same site says: Middle English governen, from Old French governer, from Latin gubernare, from Greek kubernan.Andyluciano 13:06, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I have to say that your etymologies are very unusual to say the least. I just can’t imagine where you are getting these ideas, but they are ... well, strange. The English word kiss, for example, is not from Greek. A minority of linguists suggest that there may be a cognate in Greek, but the Modern English word comes from Middle English kissen < Old English cyssan < Proto-Germanic *kussijanan < PIE *kuss-, which was probably imitative of the sound. As I said, some people have suggested that it could possibly be cognate with Greek κύνειν, but the English word certainly did not come from any Greek word. The Greek word, if it’s related at all, developed along a separate and independent branch. The words that English took from Greek are very well attested and we know which words came from Greek and which ones didn’t. And kiss didn’t. —Stephen 15:16, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I see I am not the first person to discuss etymology with you. Please do not undo other people's work with unsubstantiated replacements. I have followed your conversation with Stephen, and your comments show at best a rather radical viewpoint, and at worst a woeful unfamiliarity with your subject. Please note that words which existed in Old English are extremely unlikely to have descended from ancient Greek as the two communities had next to no interaction. A cognate is not the same as a root. Your theories about the provenance of father cannot possibly be substantiated and I would like to know what authorities you are using as sources! Finally ‘Latinized Greek’ is really not a useful term; it is enough to describe a Latin word's Greek source. Also bear in mind that many Latin words which have close Greek relatives did not necessarily derive from them, but rather that the Latin and the Greek words had a common ancestor. Widsith 17:01, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Related terms[edit]

This section is for words that are related to the actual WORD, not the underlying meaning - these should be in ===See also=== SemperBlotto 14:45, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Etymologies[edit]

You've been told before that those folk etymologies of yours are frowned upon here at Wiktionary. If you want to include them, you should at least do so in a separate subsection, with thorough references mentioned. Apart from that, be aware that, if you continue to remove or revert other people's work, a temporary block may be issued against you. —Vildricianus | t | 19:57, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Whether or not your theories are correct, you must not remove or alter valid etymologies. Undoing other people's work is considered a serious crime on a wiki. Without mentioning decent and reliable sources, non-etymologists like me are not likely to support your Greek-centered theories, which, as far as I can see, are far from neutral. —Vildricianus | t | 07:42, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

projects[edit]

Kassios, no one wants to get into protracted fights over your theories. Contrary to what you seem to think, there are many people here with etymological backgrounds; I myself have a First-class degree in this area and am quite familiar with the relevant literature. However, there are many areas of Wiktionary which are crying out for good Greek-speakers, especially those who have a knowledge of Ancient Greek. Wiktionary:Requested_articles:Greek has a couple of red links in it which you are in a good position to help with. The articles in Category:Ancient Greek language could also do with some cleaning up, and again you are ideally placed to do that. We need more entries for Ancient Greek here; might I suggest that you concentrate your energies in this area, and stop trying to push your etymological theories? You could be an extremely useful contributor if you would focus on the Greek entries themselves rather than English etymologies. Widsith 08:07, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

harpoon[edit]

I'm not a Greek expert or anything, but I'm a bit confused by hαρπάγη. I didn't realise Greek used the letter h. I would have assumed it would be written as ἁρπάγη...? Widsith 17:19, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

mortal[edit]

Hi Kassios. My main sources are Fortson's definitive Indo-European Language and Culture, John Ayto's Dictionary of Word Origins, the Etymologisches Wörterbuch des Deutschen and the Diccionario Etimológico Indoeuopeo de la Lengua Española. There is also some evidence online, see eg here (if you read Russian). Widsith 06:19, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

No I don't. μορτός and μόρος represent a different PIE root altogether, probably something like *(s)mer-. They are in fact related to μειρομαι and cognate with Latin words like merere ‘deserve’. The point is that syllabic liquids in Indo-European developed a prothetic o before them in proto-Italic, but not in Greek. That is why PIE *mr̥- produces Latin mor-; in Greek it would produce either μρ- (which later becomes βρ-) or μαρ-; it could never produce Greek μορ-. (At least I don't think so.) For an analogy of the vowel development, consider PIE *k̑r̥d ‘heart’ --> Greek καρδία (Homeric κραδία) but Latin cor, cordis. Widsith 08:20, 8 June 2006 (UTC)