User talk:Liliana-60/archive

Definition from Wiktionary, the free dictionary
Jump to: navigation, search

Hi, thanks for the work so far - it's great to have someone who knows lots about some of the more exotic languages - could I pleae ask that you put {{pedia}} on them, so that it is easier to find more information? I've attached the standard welcome template, if you have more questions feel free to ask me on my talk page. Yours Conrad.Irwin 17:56, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


Hello, welcome to Wiktionary, and thank you for your contributions so far.

If you are unfamiliar with wiki editing, take a look at Help:How to edit a page. It is a concise list of technical guidelines to the wiki format we use here: how to, for example, make text boldfaced or create hyperlinks. Feel free to practice in the sandbox. If you would like a slower introduction we have a short tutorial.

These links may help you familiarize yourself with Wiktionary:

  • Entry layout explained (ELE) is a detailed policy documenting how Wiktionary pages should be formatted. All entries should conform to this standard. The easiest way to start off is to copy the contents of an existing page for a similar word, and then adapt it to fit the entry you are creating.
  • Our Criteria for inclusion (CFI) define exactly which words can be added to Wiktionary, though it may be a bit technical and longwinded. The most important part is that Wiktionary only accepts words that have been in somewhat widespread use over the course of at least a year, and citations that demonstrate usage can be asked for when there is doubt.
  • If you already have some experience with editing our sister project Wikipedia, then you may find our guide for Wikipedia users useful.
  • The FAQ aims to answer most of your remaining questions, and there are several help pages that you can browse for more information.
  • A glossary of our technical jargon, and some hints for dealing with the more common communication issues.
  • If you have anything to ask about or suggest, we have several discussion rooms. Feel free to ask any other editors in person if you have any problems or question, by posting a message on their talk page.

You are encouraged to add a BabelBox to your userpage. This shows which languages you know, so other editors know which languages you'll be working on, and what they can ask you for help with.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wiktionarian! If you have any questions, bring them to the Wiktionary:Information desk, or ask me on my talk page. If you do so, please sign your posts with four tildes: ~~~~ which automatically produces your username and the current date and time.

Again, welcome! Conrad.Irwin 17:56, 2 June 2008 (UTC)



Please use the spelling Uyghur, as that is the one used for all our categories. Although more than one spelling is possible in English, we must use a single spelling consistently for the categories. --EncycloPetey 06:41, 30 June 2008 (UTC)


You seem to be making a lot of edits in languages that are not listed on your user page. If you do not speak these languages, then what is your source for adding the information? In the past, we have had users edit for languages they do not speak, usually with disastrous results, so that is now frowned upon here. --EncycloPetey 00:03, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I use words in the Uyghur Wiktionary and double-check their supposed meaning using Google. Although I just found an online dictionary that does the job of checking just as well. -- Prince Kassad 00:08, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
If you know that much Ughyur, then it ought to be listed as a "1" on your User page. The listings are useful for new users looking for help in their primary language. --EncycloPetey 00:11, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
It's not like I can even construct one sentence in Uyghur, though. Adding these words is really something everyone could do if they spent some time searching and checking the meanings (much easier than you might think at first). -- Prince Kassad 00:23, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Not really. There are many possible pitfalls with shades of meaning. If you are that uncertain in the language, then it's best not to be adding translations. --EncycloPetey 00:50, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Let me give you a simple example: Suppose you find out the the Navajo word for year is nááhai and create an entry for it. Would you guess the correct part of speech? Probably not, since the Navajo word for year is a verb, and not a noun like in most languages. There are many subtle and surprising problems like this that arise when you work in a language that you don't actually know. --EncycloPetey 01:04, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
1. It depends on the language, really. Of course, a Native American language such as Navajo is much harder due to complicated forms and word forms unusual to the English speaker (like your example shows). These would not be good for someone who does not speak the language to add words about.
Compared to that, Uyghur is relatively easy, at least in the aspect of nouns - it lacks articles and genders, has relatively easy word structure and many words in common with Turkish and Russian which makes verifying meanings so much easier.
2. While we're talking about that, veryifying is really the most important part. One cannot assume every word one runs over to be written correctly, but one needs to consult other dictionaries and internet resources to verify everything before actually adding entries to Wiktionary. There are some words I intentionally left out because I was not able to verify the meaning. -- Prince Kassad 09:58, 1 August 2008 (UTC)


Please see WT:BP#CheckUser votes., you may be able to help. --EncycloPetey 20:37, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


Thanks for your additions to the translation section of water. It's more efficient on storage if you make all edits at once. For each edit the entire entry is stored in history tables in a separate database. It makes me wonder where you get them. I read the rest of your discussion page and I just wanted to mention that if you're not entirely certain about a translation it's also possible to add it to a {{Translations to checked}} section. Of course, the question is if somebody is ever going to pass by to take care of them. For exotic languages it's hard to find somebody to check them and for more common languages the number of ttbc quickly becomes overwhelming. --Polyglot 14:58, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

I did multiple edits because I verified each translation. Some translations found at other Wiktionaries are questionable if not outright wrong, so I check them first. -- Prince Kassad 15:02, 30 November 2008 (UTC)


Hi Prince,

I already did some work on User:Polyglot/sandbox2, so you can see what's involved (by looking at the page history (last)). The ones that remain unresolved (with }} after the language name), were moved to { {checktrans}} once again. There is no immediate need to look them up, but you can do that if you like, of course. Once this working copy is ready, it can be moved to sun. The intermediate edits are too messy to save them at the entry of sun. This gives you the opportunity to save when you want to take a break. When you move them to sun, you can use something like checked against WP interwiki links or something similar.

Good luck --Polyglot 07:09, 4 December 2008 (UTC)


We use ISO 639-1/3 language codes here and "azr" has been retired (specifically split into Adzera [adz] (new identifier), Sukurum [zsu] and Sarasira [zsa]). I'm going to delete (again) "azr" and change your translation on water to use the code "adz" (though change it if the word is actually Sukurum or Sarasira). --Bequw¢τ 09:27, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


Hi. Is this font specification needed for Firefox or Safari, or only for MS Internet Explorer? Michael Z. 2009-01-12 06:11 z

IE and Opera need it. -- Prince Kassad 17:11, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
Okay, thanks. Michael Z. 2009-01-12 17:21 z


OK. I give up. I take it that there is no Unicode. You should mention the situation to Robert Ullman, one of whose bots kicks this out as something that defeats its ability to sort translations by language name. I think the bot assumes one line-one language. Maybe you and he can work out a kludge, er, solution. DCDuring TALK 19:45, 19 January 2009 (UTC)


Check it out :) We've got some pretty nifty scrip templates. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 15:54, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

I see. I copied the syntax from the other numeral pages, which did not use infl either. -- Prince Kassad 15:59, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Maybe they were made before we had infl or something. Anyway, infl is good to use for languages that aren't spoken by massive amounts of people. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 16:03, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

no, this does not require a vote![edit]

Sorry for throwing you in the middle of this meta-policy debate. Of course you are completely and thoroughly correct. I am confident that everyone will realize this soon enough, and hopefully formulate a more sensible policy from it. I absolutely support changes as the one you've made, and I would never come close to even considering blocking you for it. By reverting you I was carrying out the policy as we've recently decided it, one that is obviously flawed in my view. Please don't take it personally, and accept my apologies for not stating my intentions to you more clearly. DAVilla 05:02, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

OK, it all makes sense now. It's alright. -- Prince Kassad 05:32, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

project-wanted entries[edit]

Sorry 'bout that, includible was in the queue and somehow I failed to notice its existence. 50 Xylophone Players talk 19:56, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

preview allowable width[edit]

Hi, since anything involving code that I have done on Wiktionary has been done through a copy, paste, adapt approach I don't understand this and would like you to tell me how I can tell when I am violating this. thanks, 50 Xylophone Players talk 18:19, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

When you're editing the wanted entries, after the closing </small> tag remove the HTML comment (<!--) and click preview. A new box will show up and tell you how much width is allowed. Don't forget to re-insert the HTML comment before saving. -- Prince Kassad 21:19, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, funnily enough I just remembered this now even though at the moment I don't feel like sharking up more entries for RC from all those ancient (in terms of Wiktionary anyway) pages. 50 Xylophone Players talk 20:19, 17 July 2009 (UTC)


Per our IRC discussion, I'd be delighted if you would accept the nomination. Conrad.Irwin 21:04, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

kl noun[edit]

Thank you very much! Saves me a lot of time :) Jakeybean 12:19, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


Hey man, remind me the next time you see me to add a function to the template to allow the auxiliary verb to be displayed by just putting in the first letter, like 3=h for haben, 3=s for sein, you know. I'd do it now, but this laptop isn't comfy. — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 15:39, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Kashgar/Kashi in German[edit]


Thanks for correcting. I speak German but I was surprised that the German Wikipedia had Kaxgar, not Kaschgar. I think that's the attempt make German toponyms be in line with the original (which one?) spelling. Kaxgar is the official (or one of the official) spelling in China: "offizielle Schreibweise (VRCh): Kaxgar". I am going to add Kaxgar as a German variant anyway. Anatoli 01:24, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether Kaxgar as a German toponym would meet CFI. -- Prince Kassad 09:23, 30 July 2009 (UTC)


Hallo, ich möchte dich nach der Häufigkeit dieses Wortes fragen und ob es ein Synonym von einst (wie ich aus dem Kontext erschließe) ist. Ich habe es im folgenden Satz von Heidegger getroffen: Wir nennen jetzt und in der Folge dasjenige, was stets, weil einsther und allem voraus, zu bedenken bleibt: das Bedenklichste., aber google gibt nur 115 Ergebnisse, DW hat keinen Artikel... Ich interessiere mich stark für veraltete Wörter in den Fremdsprachen, die ich lerne (darunter Deutsch und Englisch) und möchte die entsprechenden Artikel mit Beispieln versehen. Glaubst du, daß Sätze aus Heideggers Werken gegen keine Urheberrechte verstoßen und das sie im allgemeinen angemessen wären? Für Citations:einsther? The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 16:55, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

einsther taucht in keinen Wörterbüchern auf, scheint aber in mehreren literarischen Werken verzeichnet zu sein. Seine Bedeutung würde ich jetzt erraten als "von einst, bis jetzt", also ähnlich wie die Paare seit - seither, bis - bisher, usw. Ich denke, dass es OK ist, Zitate auch aus neueren Werken zu verwenden, weil 1. machen das alle anderen auch, und 2. fällt das höchstwahrscheinlich unter fair use. -- Prince Kassad 17:08, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Einverstanden. Was hältst du von Helle#Etymology_1? Der Leser soll irgendwie erfahren, daß ein Helles, einem Hellen usw. die richtige Formen sind, d. h. daß es wie ein Adjektiv dekliniert wird. Gibt es eine geeignete Vorlage für ähnliche Nomina? The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 17:53, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Solche Vorlagen haben wir bisher noch nicht, die müssten wir dementsprechend vom deutschen Wikiwörterbuch rüberkopieren. -- Prince Kassad 18:12, 5 August 2009 (UTC)


I understand your frustration, but maybe talking to him is better than blocking him ad hoc like that, I did leave him a message earlier today, to which he replied. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:23, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


Would you describe what this is for on the template's docs page? Thanks. Michael Z. 2009-08-09 17:56 z

By the way, is BabelStone Tibetan sMar-chen a single font? The font names in the CSS style attribute must be separated by commas. Michael Z. 2009-08-09 17:57 z
This template is intended to be used for Zhang-Zhung script, which we will handle as a variant of Tibetan script. And yes, BabelStone Tibetan sMar-chen is a single font. -- Prince Kassad 18:00, 9 August 2009 (UTC)


You mentioned adding {{countpage}} to the bot script. Could you please give an example, where should I add this template? I don't think it is necessary, because there is another bot, that usually adds such a template, but I am happy to implement it into my bot script. --Rising Sun 10:29, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Just add {{count page|[[Wiktionary:Page count]]}} at the very end of the page, like in plumae. -- Prince Kassad 10:33, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
OK, I guess I can do that. And if a page doesn't need this template, then it doesn't do any harm, does it? It is invisible, right? --Rising Sun 10:59, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
It's just an invisible template, it won't do anything on pages where it's not needed. -- Prince Kassad 12:01, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

like this...[edit]

Like that, they are useless. I thought the point of showing the other tenses would be to... show them. Not to show how to make them. Lol...I can't imagine people complaining that the compound tenses aren't there, but not complaining that... they aren't actually there. — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 22:19, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Someone on the BP complained that the tenses are missing, so I added them. :) I just copied the code from {{fr-conj}}, which does the same. -- Prince Kassad 22:27, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
Yes, but not show the actual forms? — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 22:57, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
It would get really crowded on verbs like zusammenschließen. -- Prince Kassad 23:06, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
It's already crowded. I think it'd be better to have a "how to" appendix, rather than repeating the rather vague information in innumerable entries. See my point now? — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 23:46, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
You mean like an Appendix:German verb conjugation? Yeah, that would be a great idea. -- Prince Kassad 23:54, 22 August 2009 (UTC) addendum: someone with a German textbook should probably write down how German verb conjugation is taught (i. e. what classes, what example verbs, etc.). I'm not quite up-to-date about that.


I would really appreciate it if you would pounce on me in #Wiktionary when you have time. I was directed to speak to you about Tibetan. BTW I snaffled some of ur Babble Boxes. I appreciate that it is somewhat frowned upon to add terms if you are not a native or accomplished speaker, but I really value establishing a Tibetan presence in Wiktionary.I would also appreciate your view on a Devanagari Unicode input challenge I am encountering with Wikimedia Projects.
B9hummingbirdhoverin'æω 17:01, 7 September 2009 (UTC)


Hallo. It might be nice if you could check this entry and let me know what do you think. Thanks, Peleg 21:55, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Looks OK. -- Prince Kassad 18:24, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. --Peleg 11:38, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


Is prince Kassad the prince I think it is? User:Mallerd (Zeg et es meisje) 22:25, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it's the one. -- Prince Kassad 11:00, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Cool, how old are you? User:Mallerd (Zeg et es meisje) 22:40, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Tibetan verbs[edit]

Further to our chittychat with Hippietrail today, please refer:
B9hummingbirdhoverin'æω 12:26, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Category:Min Nan[edit]

This is a hell of a mess, almost all of this needs deleting as bad category names (example: Category:nan:Pronouns should be Category:Min Nan pronouns). We'll need a couple of people to sort this out. Mglovesfun (talk) 15:51, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Might a bot be able to do this task? -- Prince Kassad 16:00, 18 September 2009 (UTC)


What caused you to think the word was pretty important? Somewhat interesting in the etymology, but not a word I'd consider important given the rarity of usage. — Carolina wren discussió 01:13, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Someone created an entry on this word on German Wiktionary but without a definition. When a user asked me about the word, I told him to look here, soon later I noticed we were still missing this word. Since it's an English word we didn't have, I considered it pretty important. -- Prince Kassad 08:57, 27 September 2009 (UTC)


What is this, please? It's in the scripts category, but how is it a script? Mglovesfun (talk) 18:20, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Except fot one use on Blech as a context template, which I changed to use {{music}}, it's trying to set fonts for the musical characters in the Unicode musical symbols set U+1D100 to U+1D1FF. Regardless of whether we consider musical notation to be a script, for the purposes we use script templates, it's quacking enough like a duck to warrant be considered one. However, the name needs to be changed to avoid accidental use as context template. Perhaps {{Musi}} to use the usual format for script template names? — Carolina wren discussió 19:05, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
We could use this but need to be aware in case Musi gets assigned for a different script in ISO 15924. -- Prince Kassad 15:20, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
Unlikely, as the only reason ISO 15924 uses four letters is to avoid confusion with two letter country codes and three letter language codes. Still, we could use the existing Zsym (Symbols) or a private use code in the range Qaaa-Qbzz if that is a worry. (If musical notation does get its own official script code, then based on existing codes, I'd wager it would be likely to be Zmus. — Carolina wren discussió 17:38, 13 October 2009 (UTC)


Hi, could you see if you can insert appropriate templates into this? Thanks, 50 Xylophone Players talk 11:57, 26 October 2009 (UTC)


HI there. I've fixed the problem with Darkicebot and want to get him back to adding the inflected forms of Esperanto words, so could you please unblock him? Thanks, Razorflame 21:44, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

done -- Prince Kassad 22:00, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. I've already undone all the edits he messed up and he'll stick to adding inflection entries now. Cheers, Razorflame 22:01, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Requests for deletion/Others#Template:fr-infl-noun[edit]

Any comment? Mglovesfun (talk) 11:31, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Requests for verification#чăваш чĕлхи[edit]


So, what's the conclusion with Wiktionary:Requests for verification#чăваш чĕлхи? If it's the form used on the Internet, I'm loath to delete it; should it be made a redirect, or what?

RuakhTALK 18:37, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

I believe this needs broader discussion (on the BP, for the example) since it affects multiple languages. While this is the form used on the Internet, the Internet is not a valid source in terms of WT:CFI. -- Prince Kassad 19:48, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

User:Mglovesfun/To do[edit]

Please add any context labels that you think belong here. Mglovesfun (talk) 15:16, 7 December 2009 (UTC)


Is this a regional/dialectal context label? What is it? TY, Mglovesfun (talk) 19:07, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes it's a regional context label. No idea how it ends up in the wrong category. -- Prince Kassad 19:08, 11 December 2009 (UTC)


Check my sentence ftw. — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 17:34, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


Hello. See User talk:Daniel.#langcatboiler. --Daniel. 10:05, 21 December 2009 (UTC)


Milchstraße - example sentence needs double check thnx =D — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 17:16, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

done, all ok. -- Prince Kassad 17:33, 22 December 2009 (UTC)



I'm reading a grammar of Khwarshi now and have stumbled upon this entry (the only entry for it on Wiktionary apparently). My source says that the language has no written tradition, and I was wondering where did you get this Cyrillic-script spelling?! Also for numerous other NEC languages listed here.

Also ==Khwarshi== or ==Khvarshi==? The former seems to me a bit "more English", even though it has slightly less usage. --Ivan Štambuk 17:39, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Many of the Caucasian languages which have no written tradition on their own are transitionally written using a Cyrillic alphabet based loosely on Avar alphabet. This alphabet is not uncommon and can be found in many words, my source for this one was Bokarev's "Цезские (дидойские) языки Дагестана" although it also occurs in other works (including the well-known "Языки народов СССР").
Language names of the Caucasian languages are usually direct transliterations of the Russian names, thus "хваршинский" becomes "Khvarshi". I see no need to differ in this case. -- Prince Kassad 17:48, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
To your knowledge, are there any English-language works that use Cyrillic script for unwritten Caucasian languages that way? Is that particular scheme for K standardized in any work, or it's devised ad-hoc by linguists such as Bokarev (or any Khwarshi speaker that happens to write it)? In other words: Is it used consistently, or is there some kind of variance in it? --Ivan Štambuk 18:03, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
The IDS uses that script for their wordlists. Also, this website lists Caucasian phoneme inventories together with their Cyrillic script equivalents (there are some mistakes but generally they're accurate). -- Prince Kassad 18:15, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Hmm, TITUS tables seem to be missing nasalised vowels, as well as pharyngealised and labialized series.. Does Bokarev write these? And the IDS page list seems to be a mix of several dialects (which can vary considerably). Thanks anyway, these will be very handy. BTW, do you perhaps have Цезские (дидойские) языки Дагестана as an e-book? Could you upload the Cyrillic alphabet for K from it as an image somewhere? It would be most appreciated :) If it's not much of a problem of course..
How would you suggest that Wiktionary treated languages such as these? To me the best solution appears to be to focus on scholarly transcription (IPA, or whatever the tradition uses), adding other non-Latin scripts as alternative spellings, however they are attested. --Ivan Štambuk 18:46, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Nasalized vowels are the only part (to my knowledge) where the writing differs. Bokarev uses a combining tilde to indicate nasalization. Another way, used by IDS and others, is appending a superscript Cyrillic н character (ᵸ). Labialization is indicated with an appended в letter after the consonant, pharyngealization is represented by the palochka character after the consonant.
I sadly do not happen to have that book, otherwise I would have provided you the alphabet. The question on how to treat these languages is an interesting one. Latin script has the problem that it employs a variety of diacritics and might not be well typable for everyone (not to mention it's not standardized), whereas the Cyrillic script does not use special characters other than the palochka and the nasalization mark. -- Prince Kassad 19:31, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
OK, thanks for the valuable info. We should settle this issue of orthography sometime in the future. As well as the more tricky issue of treatment of "Khvarshi dialects" (Inkhokvari, Kvantlada, Santlada) which Starostin & Nikolaev pretty justifiably treat as a different languages altogether (all being dialects of Inkhokvari). Cheers. --Ivan Štambuk 20:46, 3 January 2010 (UTC)


Take a break from finding translations for water and maybe add some entries for the languages themselves, since I've never heard of 90% of the languages on there :p — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 16:40, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Deutsche Sprachnamen[edit]

Hallo, Prince Kassad. Könntest du mir sagen, ob es richtig ist,

Albanesisch ? (genitive Liliana-60/archives, plural Liliana-60/archiveen)

zu schreiben? (Cf. Deutsch) Ich habe eine Konstruktion wie Albanesischs oder Deutschs eigentlich nie gesehen, deshalb glaubte ich, einen deutschsprachigen Wiktionarianer fragen zu müssen, bevor ich ähnliche Einträge erstelle. Kåre-Olav 23:04, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Avestan font[edit]

Where might I find this Avestan font? Also, is it completely compatible with Unicode 5.x and Wiktionary's scheme(s)?--Strabismus 21:04, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I uploaded the font here. It's fully compatible with Unicode, but there appear to be slight incompatibilities with Wiktionary (I believe the encoding changed somewhere in-between). -- Prince Kassad 22:01, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
OK, thanks.--Strabismus 01:13, 21 January 2010 (UTC)


Hi PK. You added a Lushootseed translation to water. SIL retired "Lushootseed" [code:lut] since it was a group name and the individual languages were already identified/code: Southern Puget Sound Salish [slh], Skagit [ska], and Snohomish [sno]. Would you be able to be more specific then in your translation? Thanks. --Bequw¢τ 20:58, 21 January 2010 (UTC)


The WT:TOP40 list of the standard linking format for language names should be in sync with the language codes. WT:TOP40 is the control file for AF, so it's counter productive to have the template default not be the same. Per [1], why do the "languages code templates need to be changed manually"? --Bequw¢τ 23:04, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Whether the language code templates link or not is merely dependent on the existence of double brackets in their code. They do not, and can not, change according to the TOP40 page. -- Prince Kassad 11:25, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
OK. I thought you meant that a separate discussion would have to be done for the templates as well. I've manually changed the template codes so that they are in sync with the list. I've put a better note at WT:TOP40. Cleanup if the distinction is still not clear. --Bequw¢τ 22:26, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Translations box[edit]

Thanks for the advice re: the colon in the translations box. I was going to ask around what to do instead. Cheers --Roisterer 08:06, 24 January 2010 (UTC)


Hello there. Could you contribute to this discussion please? I’m not really certain of the German stuff, and I’m sure you could do a better job than me. :-S  (u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 00:33, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

LOL. Thanks. :-)  (u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 10:17, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Why so inimical?[edit]

Please explain what you meant by "He would be quite worthy of an infinite block and deletion of all contributions point blank." Are you out of your mind?! I have plenty of experience with dictionaries, some of them professional. Your suggestion that I be blocked is woefully pathetic and I urge you to remove your head from between your legs! Seriously, knock it off!!!!!!!!!! You don't see me complaining about other peoples entries if/when they make a mistake.--Strabismus 07:40, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Surely if it was one or two mistakes it would be OK. But since the error rate here goes in the hundreds or even thousands, my attitude changes ever so slightly. -- Prince Kassad 10:32, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
Hundreds?! Thousands?! OK, I demand an FULL explanation! This is madness!!!!!!!!!!!!!--Strabismus 22:11, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
Public domain dictionaries are nice to have. However, they should never be used as the primary source. In many cases, they contain errors (like spelling errors or incorrect definitions) due to the poor understanding of the language at the time, and in many cases they're written in an obsolete orthography which is not in use today. Since knowledge of phonology was bad back then, the obsolete orthography might not even be fully phonemic, making conversion to current orthography rather difficult. This is an issue which affects many of your entries, and obviously such entries are undesirable in a dictionary like ours. -- Prince Kassad 22:18, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
Actually there is no reason why not to have any of the obsolete/archaic spellings if there is evidence of them being in use, at least enough to pass our rather loose CFI. We are not prejudiced exclusively for modern and up-to-date orthography, although that is the most desirable form of the entries. I'm certain that Strabismus will be modern than happy to terminate any form of problematic activity regarding his contributions in obscure languages on the basis of out-of-date dictionaries if he were to be properly advised of troublesome entries. Lots of Wiktionary contributors utilize it as a language learning device, and native and expert-level proficiency is not a requirement for contributing. --Ivan Štambuk 22:35, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
Thank you, Ivan. Prince Kassad, I'm afraid you are begging the question. Which Kalispel-Pend d'Oreille entries are erroneous and why? You have yet to provide evidence that any of them is even incorrect. Are you suggesting that I made them up? I certainly did not! Furthermore, if the spellings are eventually found to be obsolete then the VERY LEAST we should do is to update them to the current orthography.--Strabismus 23:44, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Or, to be blunt, please tell us how he fucked up and why. --Rising Sun talk? 23:58, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Read my post above again. I suspect you ignored it. -- Prince Kassad 06:20, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
This Strabismus character is rather whiny and irritating. Too bad we can't ban for that alone. — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 23:51, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
lol, we wouldn't have any contributors left if we could block for whininess and irritatingness --Rising Sun talk? 00:10, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
I guess that wouldn't be such a terrible thing :D — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 01:46, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

TOC-format vote[edit]

Hi, a seventh option was added to Wiktionary:Votes/2010-02/ToC format after you voted, so you will want to modify your vote. (As it is now, you're considered to be ranking the seventh option last (i.e., as least favorable), since you don't rank it at all.)​—msh210 19:07, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Verify these transliterations?[edit]

Hi there. Can you verify the transliterations of the Kananda words without the (correct) next to them on User:Razorflame/Kannada/KNTL for me please? I want to make sure that they are right before I add them. Thanks, Razorflame 20:45, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

  1. Yes check.svg Done -- Prince Kassad 20:51, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
    Thanks...about erpadu...I was struggling to decide between ta and pa because they both looked so similar. As for kodu, I figured out why it wasn't a long o....still just getting a symbol mixed up here and there...Razorflame 23:36, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
If you're getting symbols mixed up and need to ask people to verify, I don't think you have a "near-native understanding of Kannada" (Knda-4). — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 18:41, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
I agree. —RuakhTALK 21:07, 7 March 2010 (UTC)


Hallo, Prince Kassad. Würdest du die drei neulich von mir eingefügten deutschen Abschnitte in Strauß, kund und Labe überprüfen. Für die Bewertung der Kontextbezeichnungen als archaic, dated oder literary wäre das Einschreiten eines Muttersprachlers schicklich bzw. tunlich. Bald kommen vielleicht auch andere, auf jeden Fall in den Requæsted entries:German, wenn nicht als eigene Abschnitte. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 17:13, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Zumindest kund wird noch heute verwendet, man braucht sich nur die Suchergebnisse auf Google Nachrichten anzuschauen. Dementsprechend gehört da kein {{dated}} hin. -- Prince Kassad 17:22, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

WT:RFV#abagadugu and WT:RFV#angam[edit]

Hi Prince Kassad,

So, should I delete these?

What about the other contributions by this IP?

RuakhTALK 03:18, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

angam should almost certainly be deleted. For abagadugu, it should be alright to simply move the page to the spelling I noted on the RfV page. The other contributions by the IP look OK, but I believe there are some more spelling mistakes in there. -- Prince Kassad 05:34, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
Done, thanks! —RuakhTALK 01:34, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


Like what you did with the Requested entries ;) Razorflame 01:24, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


Hi there. It looks like you never got around to adding an entry in Wiktionary:Administrators. This is the text that I send to new sysops (a bit late now). SemperBlotto 14:30, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Welcome to sysophood. Please add an entry at Wiktionary:Administrators.

May I ask that you always have a second session open on Recent Changes whenever you are editing Wiktionary. You may mark good edits as "patrolled", revert vandalism and stupidity by either deleting new entries or by using the "rollback" function. You may block vandals at your own discretion.

Note: As there are times when no sysop is active, it would be useful if you start your patrolling from the time you last left the system.


Nice one :D – Krun 18:59, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


Can you take a look at this word please? I found the definition in another site that I work on, and after looking around some other sites, I believe that I found enough evidence to support this being the correct translation for cubiform, but I would still appreciate someone taking a look at it :) Razorflame 20:52, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

I've added all the relevant templates, and indeed würfelförmig means cubiform, being composed of Würfel (cube) and the suffix -förmig (German equivalent to the English -form). -- Prince Kassad 21:10, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
Ok, thanks for the help :) I was pretty sure that it was right. Razorflame 21:53, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Trade :)[edit]

Seeing as you volunteered so nicely :D. This is a list made by the indexer of entries using a # in the wrong place (it's reserved solely for definitions). Index:Bashkir, Index:Ewe. If you can't be bothered, I'll get round to them at some point (I'm never sure what to do with some of the dubious headings, I've removed some already). Conrad.Irwin 22:33, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I've attempted some of the easier/more obvious ones, they should be fixed now. The others are slightly more difficult. -- Prince Kassad 04:31, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
Thanks! Conrad.Irwin 11:47, 12 April 2010 (UTC)


You happen to know the German word for the verb to ingeminate? Razorflame 19:31, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't really think there is a direct counterpart to this verb in German. -- Prince Kassad 19:45, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Is there any word that, by extension, could mean to ingeminate? Razorflame 19:55, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
The closest is the word wiederholen, which means to repeat, reiterate, ingeminate, etc. -- Prince Kassad 19:57, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Ok, thanks :) Razorflame 20:10, 27 April 2010 (UTC)


According to the description of your recent edit to poscatboiler, you expect to make "numbers" and "numerals" fit into the same category tree to avoid edit wars. I think this is not a good idea, then I'd like to discuss it or simply revert it, given my reasons: before your edit, {{poscatboiler}} contained only numerals as numerical words and {{symbcatboiler}} contained only numbers as numerical symbols. Currently, in addition to those duties, your edit made poscatboiler also contain numbers in both the title and the description but numerals as a supercategory, so the overall effect is very confusing. --Daniel. 00:55, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

They can still be distinguished though, by the presence of the words "cardinal" and "ordinal" which differentiate one and first from 1. So this shouldn't be too much of a problem, and people can use whatever term they prefer. -- Prince Kassad 08:29, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
The presence of "cardinal" or "ordinal" in their titles is not an inherent reference to words, because ordinal and cardinal symbols exist. AFAIK, one example is αʹ (first), βʹ (second) and γʹ (third) in Modern Greek, which could be members of a category Greek ordinal numbers. --Daniel. 23:32, 3 May 2010 (UTC)


...has been fixed, see Wiktionary:Grease_pit#Binisay.C3.A2_language_vs._Bundeli_language. The only transclusion in the main namespace is at water, where it is listed as Binisayâ, which is not a language, but rather a language family. Do you suppose you could fix this when you get some time? Many thanks. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 20:35, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

I've taken care of it. -- Prince Kassad 21:01, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
I love the smell of efficiency in the morning. Many thanks. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 21:17, 7 May 2010 (UTC)


I hate you so much :D. Conrad.Irwin 09:49, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

I thought I should get my revenge, after I was prevented from fixing a typo due to the vote requirement. -- Prince Kassad 10:06, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Liquid threads[edit]

I see "# Wiktionary:Sandbox; 16:56 . . Prince Kassad (Talk | contribs | block) posted a reply to "yes" (Say hello to LiquidThreads. It has been installed now, as I already announced on the BP. Yes, it will be the new way to leave messages, and you will have to live with it.)" in Recent Changes, but.. how do I get to the thread? Conrad.Irwin 17:00, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, you can view the thread by going directly to Thread:Wiktionary:Sandbox/yes. Use Special:Prefixindex to find such orphaned discussions. -- Prince Kassad 17:03, 17 May 2010 (UTC)


Hi, can you tell me how to block and I would have done it earlier but had no idea how. Please leave me a message on my talk page. Cheers. ---> Tooironic 22:57, 18 May 2010 (UTC)


At WT:GP#na:k, you promised on the 3rd of May to fix the "invisible crap" (to quote Robert Ullmann) "tomorrow" (to quote you) you introduced. However, over a fortnight later it appears that you still haven't done so and entries like water are still broken. Please clean up your mess. Thryduulf (talk) 11:06, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

It is currently not a mess. It will be a mess when I "fix" it. -- Prince Kassad 15:32, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Chinese, Japanese, Korean[edit]

Hi. Why did you simply remove the settings for these scripts and others? If you didn't like something, it doesn't mean it was "bad" and you have to rollback everything? I see Arabic is still 125% and Cyrillic has no percentage. What problem did Hani, Jpan, Taml and others cause? --Anatoli 21:16, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Defining fonts for CJK is usually unneeded, because browsers can select good fonts on their own. That however was not the main problem, the font choices you made were rather poor. Some fonts on that list are from 1993 (seventeen years ago) and are more than obsolete, others (Meiryo) are abysmal fonts for a wiki like this one. -- Prince Kassad 21:23, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
That was my first try. I haven't overwritten anybody's Japanese settings, have I? You could've simply removed or replaced the old fonts. Anyway, in my opinion, the Chinese character based fonts should be increased to make deciphering strokes easier and some browsers use MS Unicode Arial as default, which is not the best choice but better than nothing else is available. As Michael said, it's Wiki. I am planning to do more with some scripts but will seek testing and confirmations. --Anatoli 21:51, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
Common.css will overwrite the font settings you set in your browser, unless you use the font-family /**/:inherit hack. (However, your personal CSS will in turn override Common.css.) I dunno if the font size for Han Ideographic is sufficient, you should compare with Chinese Wikipedia since they have some expertise with this. If you define fonts for these, keep in mind the default Windows fonts which are widely available (PMingLiU for Hant, SimSun for Hans, MS PGothic for Jpan and Gulim for Kore). -- Prince Kassad 22:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. I have just changed. Please check. We use Hani more often than other codes for Chinese - both simplified and traditional. There is no difference in settings for Chinese translations, anyway - just adds Hani automatically. Bots change Kore to Hang, so I added both for Korean. I put 110% - it may not be enough but I'll leave to see if anyone disagrees. I actually don't see any difference at the moment - except for Korean (after clearing the cache). --Anatoli 00:22, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, I do see the difference for Chinese and Japanese and I like what I see. Please confirm there is no problem. --Anatoli 00:36, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
CJK variant glyphs.png
There are differences between simplified and traditional Chinese which warrants having them separated. I created a file a while ago for Wikipedia which shows these difference for a sample glyph. -- Prince Kassad 08:52, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

"only people who have a penis may create this entry. sorry, but try again next time"[edit]

This is a shameful insult and I demand an apology. --Ivan Štambuk 21:30, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Umm, stating the truth is shameful? -- Prince Kassad 21:33, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

IP vandal[edit]

Thank you for blocking the IP vandal a few moments ago. Could you also look at some of the nonsense pages he's created and perhaps delete them? I've tagged some for speedy deletion. Cheers, Tempodivalse [talk] 12:59, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Kenyan Sign Language[edit]

Hi. I have no idea whether either is reliable (and they seem to differ), but fwiw water in Template:xki is pictured at both [2] (click "play the game" and see question 5) and [3].​—msh210 (talk) 14:44, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

The biggest issue with this is how to transcribe it in Latin letters. This issue is shared across all sign languages (it has also prevented me from adding translations in German and French Sign Language), and I'm not familiar with the system we (or, more accurately, User:Rodasmith) use. -- Prince Kassad 16:49, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

The new Avestan font[edit]

Have you been able to make this Ahuramzda work in any browser? It works in Word but shows up as boxes in Firefox and Opera and as blank spaces in IE 8. --Vahagn Petrosyan 11:50, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it works for me in Firefox. -- Prince Kassad 12:27, 9 July 2010 (UTC)


I can't think who else could give an informed opinion on this. Mglovesfun (talk) 19:46, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Antillean Creole[edit]

This edit would make it see like you want to unify [acf] and [gcf] (as w:Antillean Creole does). Is that true? Not that I have a problem with that, but do you have any other reasons for wanting to unify them aside from Wikipedia? Cheers. --Bequw τ 01:03, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Most dictionaries simply refer to the language as "Antillean Creole". They don't differentiate either. -- Prince Kassad 09:05, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
Added to Wiktionary:Language treatment#Mergers. --Bequw τ 14:52, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Non-latin script character indices[edit]

You asked for this a few weeks ago- User:Nadando/character indices. Nadando 20:25, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Umm, entries using an apostrophe are totally broken in the list. Just look at the Russian list. -- Prince Kassad 20:50, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
I know, it's being fixed right now. Nadando 20:51, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Redirection policies[edit]

What is this a reference to? — Raifʻhār Doremítzwr ~ (U · T · C) ~ 19:36, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Chechen. Stephen does everything to prevent the use of palochkas in Chechen entries. Instead he prefers Latin I, even though it is incorrect and causes major sorting issues (Latin I sorts before all Cyrillic letters). -- Prince Kassad 19:38, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Gotcha. No wonder I'd missed that. What's his reasoning? — Raifʻhār Doremítzwr ~ (U · T · C) ~ 19:41, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Read User_talk:Stephen_G._Brown#кIиранде -- Prince Kassad 20:11, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Hmmm, he has some good points; however, can he not be persuaded by the sorting/alphabetising issue? We could have redirects from the forms written with 1 / I / l… — Raifʻhār Doremítzwr ~ (U · T · C) ~ 20:21, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Trust me, I've tried that before. (I think there was an RFD/RFV/BP/TR/ID/whatever discussion about the same topic, but I don't have a link handy). He insists that the lemma form be written with I due to the display issues, and I have not managed to change his opinion. -- Prince Kassad 20:24, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Why not just pipe the display of the Latin character using the head= parameter, like we do for typographic apostrophes? — Raifʻhār Doremítzwr ~ (U · T · C) ~ 20:27, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
That's exactly what I've been thinking. I have no idea why this cannot work. -- Prince Kassad 20:30, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Have you explicitly recommended such a course of action? — Raifʻhār Doremítzwr ~ (U · T · C) ~ 20:37, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Not yet. -- Prince Kassad 20:38, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
He may agree to that. — Raifʻhār Doremítzwr ~ (U · T · C) ~ 20:40, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Bring that up to him. -- Prince Kassad 20:44, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Done. — Raifʻhār Doremítzwr ~ (U · T · C) ~ 20:55, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
The discussion continues there. — Raifʻhār Doremítzwr ~ (U · T · C) ~ 23:56, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Category:Greek articles lacking a romanisation[edit]

I shot it on sight. The standard name seems to be [] entries lacking romanization. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:27, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Flood flag[edit]

Is WT:RFFF too onerous for getting FF? --Bequw τ 05:46, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

To me, it seems like needless bureaucracy, for administrators at least. If someome abuses it, it will be found soon enough anyway (and one has to ask how that person got sysop rights in the first place). -- Prince Kassad 06:16, 6 September 2010 (UTC)


Just commenting to make sure you've seen this and have a chance to comment before I try to close it. —RuakhTALK 14:04, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Category:fi:Cardinal numbersCategory:Finnish cardinal numbers[edit]

You have new messages Hello, Liliana-60. You have new messages at Heyzeuss's talk page.
Message added 19:19, 12 September 2010 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{talkback}} template.


Can you review my RFFF request? ~ heyzeuss 10:36, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Broken edit?[edit]

It looks like something went wrong in this edit? —RuakhTALK 18:19, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I did that on purpose as a small in-joke. -- Prince Kassad 18:22, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

German translations most needed[edit]

Here's a list of the most translated words that lack German translation (or that don't use {{t|de|...}}): toilet (has 165 translations, but none in German), (156), mass (113), (104), sister-in-law (104), slave (91), across (88), apricot (85), below (82), prime (78), plague (78), nonsense (77), third (76), poetry (76), discharge (75), reptile (74), victim (72), eagle (72), strip (71), stay (71), saffron (70), cheese (68), track (66), Bosnian (66), tender (63), how are you (63), summon (62), seat (62), advertisement (62), parent (61), business (61), do you speak English (59), poignant (58), condom (57), gall (56), faint (56), associate (56), rational (55), proud (54), potato (54), Friday (54), several (53), expensive (53), crest (53), complex (53), USA (52), teach (52), pillow (52), essential (52), all right (52), journalist (51), creative (51), belong (51), basic (51), yours (50), Wednesday (50), trivial (50), Tamil (50). --LA2 23:49, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Fang vs Fang[edit]

I was trying to distinguish the names of {{fak}} and {{fan}}. Since [fan] was more common, I changed [fak] to "Fang (Cameroon)" (not sure if that's best though). The only real use of [fak] is your addition to water. Are you sure it was [fak] and not [fan]? --Bequw τ 04:12, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

You should really do anything other than using parentheses, because they then require creating an entry of the language at Fang (Cameroon) which is probably not a good entry name. I'd rather change {{fan}} to one of the alternate names such as Pahouin (or the anglicized Pahuin). Also, I have translations for both Fang languages (fak: ndziam, fan: mendzim), I just cannot add the other because of the problem that they both have the same name. -- Prince Kassad 08:49, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

pockmas again[edit]

Hi Prince Kassad,

Could you add translations to these quotations?

DAVilla (talkcontribs) says that the quotations don't support all parts of the entry. Currently, for all I can tell, they don't support any part of the entry. :-P

RuakhTALK 17:40, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

It would certainly be possible if the citations themselves didn't use obscure and possibly unattestable words. -- Prince Kassad 18:09, 2 October 2010 (UTC)


Can you have a look at this? Is it a language, or a dialect. Mglovesfun (talk) 09:21, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia has an entry on Taishanese, which indicates that it indeed appears to be a dialect of Cantonese. The category itself is good, but the subcategories should not exist, per other regional dialects like Category:American English. -- Prince Kassad 17:44, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

acronym, etc.[edit]

Do you know which BP discussion he means in this edit comment? I'm not aware of any such discussion, but then I haven't been very active for the past few months. --EncycloPetey 15:04, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

I wish I did. But I'm not aware of such a discussion ever having taken place. -- Prince Kassad 16:36, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
I think he's referring to WT:Beer parlour archive/2010/September#Classification of abbreviations.2C initialisms and acronyms where people wanted to move this info into either the etymology or definition line. Couple that with the scattered discussions about trying to replace fake L3 POS's (eg "Phrase") with real POS's and I think you can see how he arrived at his position. --Bequw τ 13:21, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

adding of page counters by KassadBot[edit]

Hello Prince Kassad,

In this edit for labom there is an extra space between the definition line and count page tag. The way AutoFormat used to do it was that it would put the count page in the line immediately under the last line of the article, otherwise an undesired empty space shows up in the rendered entry page (compare, e.g., [4] with [5]). —AugPi (t) 13:23, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, I see. When I'm back home I'll try to figure out what's wrong. In the code it is simply told to insert into a new line, apparently it then adds another empty line as well... -- Prince Kassad 13:26, 13 November 2010 (UTC)


I don't think we want these counted as real pages. Nadando 19:25, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Why not? Did AutoFormat ignore these? -- Prince Kassad 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
It was my impression that {{misspelling of}} was specifically designed to prevent links, but that's not the case. Oh well, sorry to bother you. Nadando 19:31, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
It wouldn't have made much sense anyway, because as soon as an interwiki link is added, it gets counted as a real page anyway. -- Prince Kassad 19:33, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Disallowing certain appendices[edit]

In the vote Wiktionary:Votes/pl-2010-10/Disallowing certain appendices, your vote for "oppose" makes it more likely that there will be no restriction on pages like Appendix:Harry_Potter/Parselmouth. I am not sure this is the effect you have intended with your vote. --Dan Polansky 15:50, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

It gets a two-thirds majority anyway (11/1/1/3 - 11/5 is more than 66.7%) -- Prince Kassad 16:02, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
Well, you seem to be willing to run the risk that the vote fails after some more people vote oppose. I am highlighting the actual effect of your vote. If you are okay with that effect, so be it. It seemed to me that you actually agreed that there should be no pages like Appendix:Harry_Potter/Parselmouth. Anyway. --Dan Polansky 16:19, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Linked parameters[edit]

I was surprised by this edit. I often analyze database dumps for template parameters, and finding brackets there makes this harder than necessary. Is this really the wise way to add a link? I think sv.wiktionary uses <!-- [[ --> at the bottom of the article. --LA2 22:53, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

AutoFormat always uses this way if it's possible, which should keep all uses of the template consistent. Only for templates where it's not possible will it add {{count page}} at the bottom of the page. -- Prince Kassad 23:09, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
So maybe it's an established tradition, but it's still an abuse of template design. It requires these templates to handle parameters that are either linked or not linked, and it makes my analysis more complicated too. And for what gain? Only to make the link count right? Why don't we just fix the link count? I submitted a bug report for this. --LA2 02:44, 21 November 2010 (UTC)


Hello. Why doesn't yor bot create imperatives such as bleib, schau, ruf, setz etc.?--Sparkliest 09:43, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't yet do this because I found out during the initial run that sometimes the expected forms are not actually valid (it seems to affect mostly verbs with their stem ending in -g). As I have no mechanism for this yet, I decided to stop generation completely until the issue is resolved, whenever that may be -- Prince Kassad 09:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the incredibly speedy processing! I'll keep adding verbs to your list, until there's nothing left! --Sparkliest 10:26, 22 November 2010 (UTC)


There are a number of bots which used to be run from, but I do not have way of restarting the scripts which are stored there. I'm unfamiliar with pywikipediabot, on which most seem to be based. I've been unable to get in touch with the bot operator, who I know has been experiencing ill health. Do you have any suggestions as to how to restore the functionality? - Amgine/talk 21:15, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

I can run AutoFormat on my own bot account, and this is what I've been doing for the past few days. Interwicket is a problem since it needs accounts on all the Wiktionaries. I have not yet experimented with Tbot, it is probably lowest priority (might be in fact easier to just get rid of t+/t-). -- Prince Kassad 01:50, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Lingua Franca 'water'[edit]

Hey, according to [6] water in {{pml}} was agua and lagua. Fyi.​—msh210 (talk) 16:21, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Interesting, I never heard of this language. I added the translations, thanks a lot. -- Prince Kassad 16:35, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

And w:Yevanic links to [7], which links to a sample text that seems to give the Yevanic ({{yej}}) for "water" as νερῶν (last word in verse two; cf. Greek νερό and νερών), but I (of course) know no Yevanic, so am not sure of this at all: I could be choosing the wrong word in the verse, I could be reading it wrong, or, most likely of all AFAICT, it could be an inflected form. (And, maybe, other problems with it I haven't thought of.) Hope this helps anyway  ;-) .​—msh210 (talk) 08:17, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Hmm. Based on this uncertainty, I'm reluctant to add the word just yet. You probably understand me. -- Prince Kassad 19:52, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

KassadBot: double punctuation[edit]

Hey! When it looks through entries, does KassadBot fix double punctuation? If so, fantastic! If not, would it be feasible to add code to detect and remove "." from after any of the templates that include punctuation within themselves? — Beobach 20:34, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

I guess not? I only took AutoFormat's code, I myself have no idea of programming at all. -- Prince Kassad 21:40, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Inflection templates - poll 3[edit]

You have voiced your opinion in some of the polls about renaming of categories for what was previously called "inflection templates", templates that are planned to be newly called "headword templates" or "headword-line templates" in the name of their category. I would like to hear your preference in the poll number 3, whatever your preference is, if you would be so kind: WT:BP#Poll: Inflection to inflection-line 3. Thank you for your input and attention. --Dan Polansky 10:08, 9 December 2010 (UTC)


The code for the bot does not reflect the vote that authorizes Prepositional Phrase as an L3 PoS header. DCDuring TALK 16:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, it is in User:AutoFormat/Headers, and the bot checks this list for valid headers. Can you give an example where the bot incorrectly tagged such a header? -- Prince Kassad 17:54, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
Nevermind, I noticed where the problem is. It should no longer tag the header ===Prepositional phrase===. -- Prince Kassad 18:00, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for getting it. I have already sought out all of the instances of "phrase" in its user contributions over the last month or so (c. 6) and made appropriate changes. DCDuring TALK 22:15, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Deprecated IPA symbols[edit]

For both User:Mglovesfun/vector.js and Category:mul:Obsolete, how many obsolete IPA symbols are there? PS will be on IRC later today if you want to answer me then. Mglovesfun (talk) 14:57, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Obsolete symbols are ɷ, ʗ, ʇ, ʖ, ʚ, ʞ, ɼ, ʆ, ʓ and ɩ (though the last may appear as a letter in certain languages). Then there's the IPA ligatures which are technically obsolete as well, but still widely used. There are also some more obsolete symbols outside of the IPA block but they're rather obscure and, to my knowledge, do not appear in entries here. -- Prince Kassad 16:05, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Japanese fiction[edit]

Please make KassadBot avoid edits that result in "category Japanese fiction moved to Japanese section", such as this.

In other words, please make "Japanese fiction" be treated like "Japanese derivations", being kept in the English section. Similarly, "fr:Japanese fiction" and "fr:Japanese derivations" are kept in the French section. --Daniel. 23:23, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

I added an exception for the word "fiction". If there's other topical categories like this (that match language names), you'll need to propose exceptions for these as well. -- Prince Kassad 00:19, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
OK. Thank you very much. --Daniel. 00:24, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Water translation[edit]

Hello, I am impressed about water translations you added into water page. Which source did you use to add this awesome collection? I would like to add this translation in French wiktionary but before I would like to check if these are exact. Thanks. Pamputt 10:18, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

I did not use a single source for these. Rather, I collected each of them from individual language dictionaries or other books and added them to this page. -- Prince Kassad 10:32, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
I do not know if you kept some sources about these translations but if it is, I would be very interested to know which sources (exact) did you use for this work? Pamputt 16:20, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
No I did not keep an exact list, but main sources included:
  • [8]
  • [9]
  • a lot from SIL's sites, like SIL Peru, SIL Colombia, SIL Cameroon, SIL PNG (should be easy to find with google)
  • [10]
There were other smaller sources like individual dictionaries, but I don't really remember them all. It was a lot.
Hope that helps, -- Prince Kassad 16:34, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok, thanks a lot. About Ahwai translation; I do not find this language on Associating code, nfd, is used for Ndun language. Is it a mistake? Pamputt 01:42, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

If you look at SIL's page, you'll see the name has been changed only recently. Ethnologue hasn't picked up the change yet. -- Prince Kassad 11:25, 9 January 2011 (UTC)


I'm having a hard time considering this "translingual". What about languages that don't pluralise in -s? Equinox 17:49, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Well for that matter, 12° is not Translingual either (consider languages that use different numerals). But it is used in multiple languages, so it's translingual enough to get the Translingual L2 header, I suppose. -- Prince Kassad 17:51, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
(after edit conflict) In French 12° ought to be invariable. That said, translingual doesn't mean "all languages", strictly it means "multiple languages" (hence mul). Mglovesfun (talk) 17:52, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
You may be right but that doesn't seem very good to me. How would the reader know which languages? And doesn't this make terms like cinéma vérité eligible for Translingual, because they have been borrowed into English? Equinox 17:54, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
Not necessarily. It depends on the case. Words like pizza, even if they have been borrowed into multiple languages, are not Translingual. -- Prince Kassad 17:57, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

KassadBot suggestion/request[edit]

This replacement doesn't seem "safe" (i.e., unlikely to misinterpret what human editors meant).​—msh210 (talk) 22:41, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Wow. I have no idea how it managed to guess "Postposition" from that. It uses some magic guesswork which *usually* works fine, but not in this case obviously. -- Prince Kassad 23:06, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

This is a different suggestion/request, but this heading seems the most appropriate.  :) This edit seems to be adding in a template that doesn't exist -- {{ja-attention}} was apparently deleted because it wasn't used, with Mglovesfun suggesting that folks use {{attention|ja}} instead. Moreover, while the request to add verb inflections is reasonable enough, nouns in Japanese do not inflect, so the bot's addition of {{infl|ja|proper noun}}{{ja-attention|needs inflection template}} under the Proper noun heading really doesn't make sense. (For that matter, I'm baffled by the decision to use a Japanese noun in the examples on the {{infl}} page...) Anyway, just FYI as I work through my watchlist.  :) -- Cheers, Eiríkr Útlendi | Tala við mig 20:55, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I fixed it so it no longer uses the deleted templates. As for the inflection requests, the bot actually *always* adds it when there is no inflection line, it does not check the part of speech at all. I think it was meant with verbs in mind, but even then adding the attention template is useful so others can check and spot other errors in the entry. -- Prince Kassad 21:01, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for fixing the template issue. Follow-up question about inflection, then -- if I or someone else later removes the inflection line, will the bot add it back in? Again, Japanese nouns don't inflect, so having this line doesn't make sense. -- Eiríkr Útlendi | Tala við mig 21:14, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
The inflection line should be on all entries, per our WT:ELE. For a language that does not inflect, it should only show the headword. In case of Japanese, it may also be useful to show romanization in the inflection line if that is not handled by other templates. -- Prince Kassad 21:16, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for that, useful reference. I'm about to shift gears to get other work done, but I'll add the appropriate line to the Proper noun heading shortly, and figure out the best way of dealing with the verbs later. -- Cheers, Eiríkr Útlendi | Tala við mig

Wiktionary:RFM#etystub, rfe[edit]

Since you were the person that brought this to my attention, I thought you might like to comment. Mglovesfun (talk) 15:57, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

revert to Goth[edit]

Good call, though it does work for me. I assume it doesn't work for more users than just you, though God only knows why. Mglovesfun (talk) 19:21, 17 January 2011 (UTC)


Re: your comment in IRC, please don't move my pages to what I intended unless I made a //truly// obvious error. My actual error was that the entry should have been ཀ་ཏ་ཀི in the first place, rather than ཀ་ཊ་ཀི. The two might look very similar but the ཏ and ཊ characters are actually different. the one I meant is ta rather than tta. additionally, moving a page makes it a lot harder to fix afterwards. I know I'm bad about responding to messages in IRC, but I take a lot of care when I am editing in a language I don't entirely know, and appreciate people understanding that before correcting what may appear to be a mistake. ཀ་ཏ་ཀི was the word I happened to be copying out of the dictionary, and I double-checked that I got each of the characters right the first time. Danke schoen. --Neskayagawonisgv? 09:20, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

I was assuming it to be an obvious thing, as my dictionary does not have ཀ་ཏ་ཀི but only ཀ་ཊ་ཀི. You must quite obviously be using a different dictionary than I do. -- Prince Kassad 15:07, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
I have a modern Tibetan-English dictionary that I am checking everything I enter against. There is a difference between tta and ta. --Neskayagawonisgv? 16:34, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

KassadBot requests[edit]

See [[Wiktionary:Grease pit#Context labels needing a language]], if you please.​—msh210 (talk) 17:52, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Flag display gadget[edit]

I quite like your flag display gadget; thanks for contributing that. I was wondering if it might be possible to add the Navajo Nation flag? -- Cheers, Eiríkr Útlendi | Tala við mig 05:44, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done -- Prince Kassad 10:09, 26 January 2011 (UTC)


Do you oppose the move? If not, I think we could move it and have done with it. There's a chance that someone could one day move the words into Italic script. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:30, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Dunno. I guess go ahead. -- Prince Kassad 17:58, 26 January 2011 (UTC)


I kind of thought we were moving toward a languagecode-pos template system, not away from it... --Yair rand (talk) 22:09, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

The problem is that letter entries (unlike nouns, verbs or adjectives) are supposed to have a uniform design, and the old system would require us to create templates for every language. We also have {{Latn-def}} for use on the definition line. -- Prince Kassad 22:14, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
They are supposed to have a uniform design, which is why we have {{headtempboiler:letter}}. The template makes it so that the letter templates can be produced very quickly and easily. --Yair rand (talk) 22:18, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Still, using {{infl-letter}} is arguably easier than having to check if a letter template already exists for the language and creating it if not. -- Prince Kassad 22:21, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Why would the average user assume that {{infl-letter}} exists? It doesn't follow any sort of pattern at all. (Nouns use code-noun, verbs, code-verb, adjectives, code-adj, letters, ... infl-letter|code?) --Yair rand (talk) 22:26, 1 February 2011 (UTC)


[11] Why Chichewa translation was moved to the end? Maro 19:34, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Oh I can tell you. Since Mglovesfun went through with his bot, the trreq template uses the language code instead of the language name. And since the language code is lowercase, and AutoFormat is case sensitive, they're all moved to the end of the table. -- Prince Kassad 19:43, 3 February 2011 (UTC)


Please tell me how do you find the right entry that fit the milestone. :p Thanks. --Daniel. 17:07, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

I set the Recent Changes to show 500 pages (it shows the current pagecount which is very convenient). Then, I copy the list to a text editor and remove all edits that don't involve creating a new page. That way, I can easily find out the milestone entry by looking at the line count. -- Prince Kassad 17:32, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Rebalancing of translations by KassadBot[edit]

this edit is not right. It puts {{trreq}} to the end of the list. The requests should be in alphabetical order like the rest. When the assisted translations are added later, they become out of order. (Note: I will be away for a few days.) --Anatoli 13:00, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

This is an unexpected biproduct of MglovesfunBot (talkcontribs) replacing language names with codes. Since unicode lists Latin lowercase letters after the uppercase letters, the bot is 'correct' in a sense. Though, a solution other than going back to language names would be nice. Mglovesfun (talk) 13:06, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
\-: Correct in the sense that every bug is correct since computers are only able to follow the instructions in the program. \-: — hippietrail 11:36, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

infl|fi|adj & fi-adj[edit]

This is not a major bot rampage report, but Kassadbot added {{infl|fi|adj}} to -pitoinen, but did not remove {{fi-adj}}. One or the other will do. Can you perhaps look into fixing fi-noun and fi-adj so that they do not feed Category:Finnish terms needing attention anymore? ~ heyzeuss 10:49, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

In the entry you linked to, {{fi-adj}} is prefixed with a hyphen (which is unnecessary, since the hyphen is in the pagename anyway), therefore KassadBot was unable to find it. As for the category, I changed fi-noun accordingly. -- Prince Kassad 11:04, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, that really helps. Sorry to nitpick. :) ~ heyzeuss 16:04, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Entries without categories[edit]

Any chance KassadBot could label entries without "language categories" (categories that start with the name of the language) in them, perhaps having the maintenance category itself beginning with the language name? It seems like something that would be within the "autoformatting" scope... --Yair rand (talk) 10:54, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Also, I think it would really be better if KassadBot didn't make edits like these... --Yair rand (talk) 11:20, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
Why? It's needed so the pages actually count in the statistics. Or is an alternative preferred? -- Prince Kassad 14:01, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
I think it would be better if {{count page}} was used instead. --Yair rand (talk) 14:05, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
This would be possible. Do note, though, that currently adding {{count page}} causes ugly empty space to appear in the entry... -- Prince Kassad 14:45, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Votes/pl-2011-01/Final sections of the CFI[edit]

Just wondering whether you might want to add a note similar (or opposite) to mine for legislative intent purposes.​—msh210 (talk) 16:42, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

KassadBot translations sort/balance problems[edit]

Hi Prince Kassad. I've just come across three problems with your bot that you'll see in this edit

  1. It doesn't take {{trreq}} into account, sorting all languages with translation requests at the end of the table.
  2. When doing 1. it doesn't seem to count the number of such entries it's moving by adjusting the middle of the table.
  3. It redoes its erroneous edit after a user has manually undone it.

The old AutoFormat bot didn't have any of these problems. Happy bugfixing! — hippietrail 01:26, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

See #Rebalancing of translations by KassadBot. It uses Unicode order, which has all the small letters after the capital letters. -- Prince Kassad 09:59, 22 February 2011 (UTC) (edit: and indeed AutoFormat di not have these problems, because trreq used the language name when AutoFormat was running.)
But will you fix it? — hippietrail 11:33, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Maybe. But it needs completely new code and it needs a way of guessing whether a parameter is supposed to be a name or a code. Until this is solved, fixing the bug will be hard. -- Prince Kassad 11:41, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Codes start with lower-case letters, language names don't. --Yair rand (talk) 11:58, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
It seems KassadBot continues to move {{trreq}} to the end of the translation tables, where it does not belong. One thing you could do is disable the part of the code that does this until the bug is resolved. This would fit the principle that a bot should not run if it makes maledits. It would suffice that you disable only that part of the bot that sorts translation tables. --Dan Polansky 16:54, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Fine, the bot's gone. If you think you can do any better, go ahead. -- Prince Kassad 16:57, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
See #Rebalancing of translations by KassadBot above where I took responsibility for this. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:00, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
If you read again what I have written, you will see that the following summary that you gave is inaccurate: "16:56, 28 February 2011 Prince Kassad (Talk | contribs) blocked KassadBot (Talk | contribs) with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled, autoblock disabled) ‎ (because User:Dan Polansky said so)". --Dan Polansky 17:03, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
thought that was a bit childish of you, Prince Kassad. Better just ignore him, unless other people think that one 'bug' (which could be construed as non-damaging btw) think that that is a reason to shut down all bot functions. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:10, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
If people start to complain about the lack of AutoFormat, I can now point them to the responsible person. -- Prince Kassad 17:17, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
You are responsible for your actions. I cannot even block anyone; I am not an admin. I have merely pointed out that you could comment out part of the code, using the hypothetical "could", in the hope that this would be construed as a polite request. I am sorry that I have angered you with this. --Dan Polansky 17:28, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
It's not a 'bug' per se, it's working exactly as it is meant to. Just so happens that in unicode 'a' comes after 'Z'. It's also not breaking any rules. {{trreq}}s aren't translations per se, they are requests. It seems quite logical to me to have them last - that way all the translations precede the requests. KassadBot isn't do anything wrong. Find something that says it is. Mglovesfun (talk) 19:35, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Bots are supposed to implement consensus. The burden isn't on Dan Polansky to demonstrate that there's consensus against these moves, but on Prince Kassad to demonstrate that there's consensus in favor of them. —RuakhTALK 18:18, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
Correct. So where is the consensus to have {{trreq}} use language codes, instead of names? -- Prince Kassad 18:37, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
This might be considered consensus... --Yair rand (talk) 19:11, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
(Unindent) Yair rand, you know of Wiktionary:Votes/2010-09/Language codes in templates, a vote that ended in no consensus with 5.5:5 in favor of the proposal, right? I recall I felt annoyed when I saw MG replacing the English names in ttbc with language codes, but I did not have the energy to try to stop him. I do realize that the problem discussed in this thread (if it is seen as a problem) was caused by an "unbureaucratic" (:p) action of MG. I am aware that I asked Prince Kassad to fix a problem that he did not originate himself. --Dan Polansky 19:24, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
Has the AutoFormat bot stopped all together? If so, to use the technical term, we're fucked. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:21, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
You can thank Dan Polansky for that. -- Prince Kassad 16:30, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Whatever he's said, you're still responsible for your own actions. Getting pissed off with him achieves nothing. Mglovesfun (talk) 18:47, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Looks like I managed to fix the problem... or not? We'll see during the next few edits. -- Prince Kassad 17:51, 10 March 2011 (UTC)


If have undeleted it because it broke {{en-proper noun}}. It does not look like the kind of thing that can be deleted summarily no matter what the vote. DCDuring TALK 16:35, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Odd. {{en-proper noun}} did not appear in What-links-here... Anyway, I have removed the template call from en-proper noun, and redeleted the template. Hopefully, there shouldn't be any problems this time. -- Prince Kassad 17:24, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. There are numerous templates and some entries that contain the text {{PAGENAME}}, apparently by transclusion from common templates. Are those variable names in the template, or do they invoke a magic word, or what? I haven't seen any bad consequences from such text being there. DCDuring TALK 17:57, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
{{PAGENAME}} is a built-in magic word; it denotes the name of the current page. See mw:Help:Magic words#Page names. —RuakhTALK 18:15, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. Never mind about the few entry pages that still have the word pagename in them anyway. Mostly they are instances of "pagename" not even the magic word. DCDuring TALK 19:10, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Vote on formatting of etymologies[edit]

There is the vote Wiktionary:Votes/pl-2011-02/Deprecating less-than symbol in etymologies, which would benefit from your participation, even if only in the role of an abstainer. Right now, the results of the vote do not quite mirror the results of the poll that has preceded the vote. There is a chance that the vote will not pass. The vote, which I thought would be a mere formality, has turned out to be a real issue. You have taken part on the poll that preceded the vote, which is why I have sent you this notification. --Dan Polansky 08:27, 10 March 2011 (UTC)


Please, don't remove Malory quotations from English sections. I have spent many hours putting them in. They are a crucial record of that period of English which is on the cusp – some people call it late Middle English and others call it early modern. In fact by Wikipedia's definition, ‘The language of England as used after 1470 and up to 1650 is known as Early Modern English’ and Malory certainly fits into that. If you want to duplicate them in a Middle English section then do so, but don't remove good information from the English sections. Thanks Ƿidsiþ 19:41, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Didn't we have some kind of 15?? rule? I can't remember the details of it, but we considered anything before 1500 part of Middle English, and thus as a language similar, but distinct to the Modern English language. Or has that changed? -- Prince Kassad 19:43, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

I don't know of any such rule. But I think cites like this are undeniably useful data for an English entry. Ƿidsiþ 19:49, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

I found it, it's in Wiktionary:About English. -- Prince Kassad 19:53, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, seems like that page sets the boundary slightly differently (who wrote that?). It doesn't matter – there is no real boundary, it's arbitrary, and we should use discretion for material around those edges. Personally I am not very interested in Middle English as a separate language; I am interested in modern English and its development and so early quotes are important to me. Ƿidsiþ 20:22, 14 March 2011 (UTC)