User talk:Opiaterein/Archive 2012

Definition from Wiktionary, the free dictionary
Jump to: navigation, search

ku-verb-form of[edit]

Hi Laurent
Can you fix that template[1] because tthere is a problem with the template:see.George Animal 18:20, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
I have done it.George Animal 18:47, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
I'm glad you got it lol, I was busy doing other stuff. — [Ric Laurent] — 18:58, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Arabic verbs[edit]

Hey man. Don't hesitate to ask me if you want me to check verbs. It may take longer but I'll try to do a good job. --Anatoli (обсудить) 00:16, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

All the new templates are still at User:Dick Laurent/Sandbox if you want to look them over, man. They're not all done, though... Hm, I should organize them that way... — [Ric Laurent] — 03:02, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
Wow, a lot! Ok, I'll do it over some time. --Anatoli (обсудить) 03:52, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
That's how I've been making them, so that'd probably be the best way to double check them :D — [Ric Laurent] — 11:55, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
If you have doubts about particular stuff, let me know, otherwise, I'll be checking them in order. --Anatoli (обсудить) 12:16, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
Haha I usually do ask you if I'm unsure of or can't find something :)
One thing I hate about 201 is that they don't always use verbs that actually have passive forms for their examples, even for verb forms that would have them... so if they only have one example of a certain irregular verb form, if it's not one with passives.............. I understand that it's supposed to be a practical guide on stuff that's actually used in contemporary Arabic, but come on! — [Ric Laurent] — 12:50, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
Hey man. I've checked the first 6 patterns and added maṣādir. They look very good. With بَئِسَ, I only checked the template but I couldn't find this verb in dictionaries, so no maṣdar added. --Anatoli (обсудить) 11:32, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
I thought I found that one in Hans-Wehr... hm. Not sure now, but I know I did see it in one of my e-books or I wouldn't have added it lol — [Ric Laurent] — 13:18, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
Oh by the way, I'm working on form-3 with hamza for 3rd root right now. Hamzated verbs are much easier than weak ones lol — [Ric Laurent] — 13:19, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
Yes, they are, :). I have asked Steve about بئس. He suggested it on my talk page when we talked about hamzated verbs. In Hans Wehr, under 'b-ʾ-s' I only found بؤس. Do you remember where else you saw it? --Anatoli (обсудить) 22:20, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
Not offhand, but it might have been in this green book, I can't remember the name of it... heh. :D — [Ric Laurent] — 22:24, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
I found it, no worries. It's بُؤْس. --Anatoli (обсудить) 22:45, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
this is fucking ridiculous — [Ric Laurent] — 23:24, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
Scary! --Anatoli (обсудить) 23:55, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
You want to know the worst part? That's not even comprehensive. There's a bunch of missing stuff. I contend that Arabic is harder than Mandarin and Russian combined. — [Ric Laurent] — 00:03, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, mixed exceptions are missing, among others. As for difficulty, templates - perhaps, grammar - not so sure. I don't know if Russian verbs can all fit into manageable templates. Not sure if this is the reason why each verb is filled manually here. Perhaps, ru:Викисловарь:Шаблоны_словоизменений/Глаголы - an attempt. I don't know if it's comprehensive. You may be right about Arabic/Russian.
Well, for Americans, Russian is only level II and both Mandarain and Arabic are both level IV (+Korean, Japanese). Need about three times more time to become functional. I reckon Arabic and Korean are both understudied and GOOD resources are really scarce. Like with many students, it's frustating to learn a language (MSA) people refuse to speak or even understand 100%.
As I said before, in Russian, there's also little discrepancy between what is said and what is written. So even a complicated form can usually be found, attested, which makes Russian sort of easier. If Arabic were written in a more phonetic script and was spoken the way it's written, it would not be as hard to learn. In Russian, we can play with words, adding suffixes and endings - like маленький - манепусенький, малюсенький, малой-малый. Although, I have learned Mandarin much longer than Arabic, what I find difficult in Mandarin still (apart from hanzi) is how a thought is expressed. The logic of an Arabic sentence seems much clearer, there's abundance of info about what belongs to what and related to what, in Chinese, lack of endings may not be a blessing at all, in a long and convoluted sentence, especially filled with Classical Chinese expressions. Another major difficulty of Mandarin, as compared to both Arabic and Russian - is listening comprehension. In Arabic and Russian words are long and easily identifiable from other words. In Mandarin is sound + context. The more literal the text is, the harder it gets. I love language comparisons, sorry for the long post lol. --Anatoli (обсудить) 01:53, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
It's fine dude, I know I can ramble on and on about morphology to people who don't know anything about it :)
I have a friend with a Master's in Arabic who compared فصحى to Latin and the modern dialects to the Romance languages, which I thought was just an amazing analogy, and I was mad at myself for not thinking of it sooner :) The biggest difference is that Latin isn't required learning in Spain or France or Romania. — [Ric Laurent] — 02:03, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

تغير - wrong category[edit]

Hi Ric,

I was expecting تغير to be added to Category:Arabic hollow form-V verbs as one of Category:Arabic form-V verbs with ي as second radical but it wasn't. Could you take a look, please? --Anatoli (обсудить) 02:11, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

For a second I was like "what is he talking about, it is in that category" but then I saw you were talking about the Category:Arabic hollow form-V verbs :D
I made it so that Category:Arabic hollow form-V verbs only contains other categories. The entries only have the most specific ones. Not like those damn stupid verb form templates that put a verb form in X singular verb forms X third person verb forms X imperfect verb forms, that shit makes me so mad.
BUT I'm glad you pointed this out, because there's something wrong with the template I use for the parent categories... it's calling hollow roots assimilated... I need to fix this — [Ric Laurent] — 02:17, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
Oh never mind, nothing wrong with the template. I just fucked up a category lol — [Ric Laurent] — 02:18, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
Looks better now, thanks! --Anatoli (обсудить) 02:36, 14 January 2012 (UTC)


Someone used this word on your talk page, above, and it seems to be in loads of books. What does it mean: just "marked with a hamza"? We should create an English entry, probably. Equinox 01:57, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Hm, how to best describe it... Basically it's an adjective describing a verb or root that contains the letter hamza, which makes the spellings of conjugated forms fluctuate from the norm a bit. It's one of the main irregularities in Arabic verbs. The others ones are assimilated, hollow, defective and doubled/geminated. So yeah, hamzated should probably exist.... — [Ric Laurent] — 02:02, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
I've had a go, but I don't know Arabic from gum arabic. Please fix it if I did something shit. Equinox 02:13, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Looks good, just added a bit. — [Ric Laurent] — 02:51, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Conjugation Template[edit]

Hey babycakes, good news. I guess I've added all the forms to the template. It's just the "Other Compounds" part became a shit and I don't know why :D And after a last reading for the typos, I'm going to add a couple of notes. Sinek 22:20, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Quick question, darling: HOW THE FUCK DO TURKS REMEMBER ALL THOSE FORMS?! D: Turkish is so structured and brain-hurting T_T — [Ric Laurent] — 22:24, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Lol it invades so much place in our brains that most of Turks suck at foreign languages :D And I have to agree, I've never seen all the conjugated forms listed like this before :D Made me like, (o_O) WTF!? Sinek 22:33, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Hehe :) Let me know when you're done and I'll start to replace the forms you gave with the appropriate coding. — [Ric Laurent] — 22:35, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Actually I could use your help about the "Other Compounds" at the bottom, it looks all mixed up and I can't fix it :D Don't think it's a big deal, though :D Sinek 22:40, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Alright dear, I'm just about done with this thing I'm doing for {{fa-noun}}, so I'll get right on it :) — [Ric Laurent] — 22:41, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Really, you're doing great, awesome, wonderful stuff about these Persian and Tajik templates. (and well, yeah, as well as for many other languages :D ) Sinek 22:46, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
I knooooooow, it's nice that someone else recognizes my amazingness lol. you = ♥
OK now that I've made {{fa-noun}} do automatic transliteration (though I just thought of something I haven't accounted for and need to fix, but I can do it in a minute) let me take a look at your table. — [Ric Laurent] — 22:55, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Ok, all done :) Now to solve my little fa-noun problem lol. (It just shows (-hâ) or (ân) if the main word isn't transliterated. Ugh. Only a problem if there's no tr=, but still!!!!) — [Ric Laurent] — 23:05, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Thank you so much honey! I'll have to ask for your help again, I added some explanations to those 3 parts but it divided the template into half. I'd be really glad if you could take a look at this and give them an independent space :D And about the translation, I've always dreamed our xx-noun templates to automatically transliterate words :D I know you can solve that problem, you've handled a lot more complex shits :D Sinek 23:32, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
I did something! Not sure it was the something you were looking for, but it was something lol — [Ric Laurent] — 23:54, 16 January 2012 (UTC)


Hey babe, I saw süpet here listed as slang, but it's the cant used by the gay community only, like Polari. Do you think it needs its own specific category or we should go on with just slang? Sinek 15:01, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Actually there was some discussion of the inclusion of gay slang/lgbt slang, but it never got anywhere. For those kinds, I've just used {{context|gay sexual|_|slang|lang=xx}} and so far no one has complained, but I'm sure they will eventually. — [Ric Laurent] — 15:16, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
Got it. I'll follow your track then :D Sinek 17:23, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
K :) Is there a word used like süpetçi? — [Ric Laurent] — 17:27, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
Can be heard, but saksocu (which comes from saksafon :D I don't know why) is much more common, not only among gays, but also straights. Sinek 17:30, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
It looks like I added saksocu back in November :D — [Ric Laurent] — 17:45, 19 January 2012 (UTC)


السلام عليكم Laurent

this page also (I think) can help you.:)George Animal 16:36, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
Excellent, I had a shorter version of this book that I was looking at yesterday... But it was only like half the book, so this is great. :) — [Ric Laurent] — 16:43, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
Salamun alaykuum Laurent,
can you standardize this template (If you have got time) because I always don't want to add this large text to the entries.Good night!George Animal 21:41, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
W'alaykum as-salam. What template are you referring to? — [Ric Laurent] — 21:44, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
Like that or that or that what you want to create.They only should for the verbs suffixed -andin
Look here.Thanks.George Animal 21:56, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
If you are busy or whatever than you shouldn't do it.George Animal 21:58, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
I can do that right now. :) — [Ric Laurent] — 22:03, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
You shouldn't do it now, you can do it tomorrow because (I think you haven't got time).George Animal 22:06, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
Oh, ok... I'll just get back to Persian for the night and do this tomorrow. :) — [Ric Laurent] — 23:33, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
Hi Laurent.
have you done it?George Animal 16:48, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
User:Dick Laurent/Template:ku-conj-head - Let me know if anything is missing before I move it — [Ric Laurent] — 17:21, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
Could you lokk here, please.And thank you for your work.:)George Animal 17:41, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
Alright, I added present perfect and past perfect — [Ric Laurent] — 17:55, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
It is very good now.You can move it.George Animal 17:56, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
Alright, cool. It's now at {{ku-conj-head}}. I suppose the subtemplates should be called {{ku-conj-andin}}, {{ku-conj-în}}, {{ku-conj-tin}}, {{ku-conj-dan}}, {{ku-conj-bûn}}, {{ku-conj-rin}}? — [Ric Laurent] — 18:03, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
Yes, but I don't know how I can do it.George Animal 18:06, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
Bu I will try it.:)George Animal 18:09, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
Not to worry, kardeşim, I'll get you started and help you along. — [Ric Laurent] — 18:11, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I've set up the skeleton for {{ku-conj-în}}. I'm not sure how to conjugate Kurdish verbs, so you'll have to fill in some :D But I can help if you tell me what needs to happen. — [Ric Laurent] — 18:17, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
could you move the template or should I?.Good night.George Animal 21:02, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
Hi Laurent,
I have tried to add a new parameter {{{2}}}} -> {{{2}}}} di{{{1}}}im to Template:ku-conj-irin. for the compund verbs = amade kirin, pîroz kirin, hez kirin, kar kirin etc.Only kirin is conjugated and its conjugated form looks like the forms of the verb kirin.
E.g: eZ pîroz dikim, tu pîroz dikî, ew pîroz dike etc.Can you lokk here if I have added it.I think it is incomplte and it is not correct and that's why I asked you.Thanks George Animal 12:49, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
Done. :)
For pîroz kirin you would do this:

[Ric Laurent] — 12:59, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

I thank you for it.George Animal 13:00, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
Hiç bir şey, kardeşim. I did the same thing to {{ku-conj-andin}}, so you can use it there, too. — [Ric Laurent] — 13:05, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
Silav again,
We have not got a template for the verb prefixed with ve-/hil-: For example: vekirin, hilkirin, çêkirin.They are conjugated differently, namely: ez vedikim and not ez divekim.I hope you understand me.George Animal 17:42, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
Evet, anladım. I'll try to think of an elegant way to handle that... are ve- and hil- the only prefixes that do this? Are they used with all conjugation types, -andin and -irin, etc? — [Ric Laurent] — 17:48, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
Could we integrate them, too?George Animal 17:49, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
No, the are lots of prefixes.:)George Animal 17:50, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
You can see them here, too.George Animal 17:52, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
A list of Kurdish verbs --> [2].George Animal 17:52, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
[3] Which of these prefixes come before the di- and bi-? — [Ric Laurent] — 17:58, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
hil-, ra-, rê-, da-, der-, ber-, .George Animal 18:06, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
You can see [4], too.But you don't understand Kurdish.
One thing I could do is make it so if the first parameter is one of those prefixes, then the second one will be for the verb stem. (Right now the first parameter is for the stem, this would just push it back.) If I did that, I'd have to make the noun part for compound verbs third (right now it's second). !— [Ric Laurent] — 18:17, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
Should I do extra templates for the Kurdish irregular verbs?For example for the verbs hatin --- to come : ez têm (I come), tu têyî| the verb bûn: ez /im/me --> I am; tu î/yî (you are). gotin to say: ez dibêjim, tu dibêjî. etc.George Animal 13:40, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
Yes. I would put them at {{ku-conj/hatin}}, {{ku-conj/bûn}} and {{ku-conj/gotin}}. In fact, I'll set them up for you so you can put the forms in. — [Ric Laurent] — 13:43, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
HI again,
we cannot use the old templates beacuse hatin is a intransitive verb and its form in simple past/present perfect/past perfect is different. And the first, second and the third person are different. ( are differnez. For example: simple past: ez hatim/tu hatî/ew hat/em hatine/ ew hatine....George Animal 13:50, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
All verbs with kirin are transitiv and all verbs with bûn intransitiv.George Animal 13:52, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
The persons by the intransitive verbs are the same persons like by simple present.George Animal 13:53, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
There is also vegotin--> vedibêjim and NOT divebêjim:George Animal 14:01, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
I think you're talking about ergativity... I remember seeing something about that in Kurdish. Hm. This would be much easier if I spoke Kurdish :| — [Ric Laurent] — 14:03, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
I can list the transitive and intransitive verbs.Could that help you?George Animal 14:05, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
I don't think so :) I need to know exactly how transitive verbs and intransitive verbs differ in form. — [Ric Laurent] — 14:06, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
You can see the rules here.George Animal 14:11, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
I have created Template:ku-conj-tin-itr for the transitive verbs, but the simple past/ sumple present and the pluperfect form are all the same.Only the 1st, 2nd and the 3rd person plural forms should be the same.Can you add them.George Animal 16:56, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
Could you do it?Thanks.George Animal 17:12, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
I don't know, I can maybe try later, but given my poor grasp of Kurdish it could take time. — [Ric Laurent] — 17:15, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
Ok.Done. It was easier than I thought.George Animal 17:48, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
Templates aren't as hard as some people think :) — [Ric Laurent] — 17:50, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
I see from the "pages for deletion" list that George has marked ku-conj/bûn and ku-conj/gotin for deletion. I won't touch it, with my absolute lack of Kurdish, but you could delete them if you agree with him. Equinox 02:07, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
I'm not really sure why he wanted them deleted, that's why I haven't done it already. — [Ric Laurent] — 02:20, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

{{ar-adj}} - second plural.[edit]

Hi dude,

Could you add pl2, please? I want to add a second plural form to عظيم. I hope it's easy for you. --Anatoli (обсудить) 05:32, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Should be done. :) — [Ric Laurent] — 13:36, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
شكرًا جزيلاً! :) --Anatoli (обсудить) 21:37, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
Nėr už ką, mano brolis. — [Ric Laurent] — 21:43, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
I see, Lithuanian now :) --Anatoli (обсудить) 21:59, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
Не знал ты, что я люблю литовский? :) — [Ric Laurent] — 22:16, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
Я все языки мира люблю, только времени не хватает, хе-хе. --Anatoli (обсудить) 22:35, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
Hah, I don't love them all, but some more than others :) — [Ric Laurent] — 22:50, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
Same here actually, can't love all, can't even stay committed to a few but I do feel worried about languages underrepresented here, like state languages, especially of large countries having few entries/translations here. I wonder, do you still learn some languages through textbooks or something? I sort of promised myself to continue learning these: Chinese Mandarin, Japanese, Arabic, these only if time allows: Korean, Hindi, Persian, Vietnamese, while trying not to forget German and some French. --Anatoli (обсудить) 23:10, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
I collect books, though most of what I have right now is ebooks. Too poor for real ones :( — [Ric Laurent] — 23:17, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
А ты и́ми по́льзуешься для себя́, не для Викисловаря́? Изуча́ешь како́й-нибу́дь язы́к? Я ча́сто ду́маю, что вре́мя, проведённое здесь мо́жет быть лу́чше испо́льзовано для усоверше́нствования како́го-нибу́дь языка́. --Anatoli (обсудить) 02:41, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
I'm usually studying whatever language I edit most on here :) I'm not studying Persian very hard right now, but that's basically because it's more challenging and will take me more time to learn it anyway. Editing it now is just helping me get a little more familiar with it. I'll probably go back and forth again... For example, I've started and stopped studying Albanian three times. I should keep a log of that stuff... — [Ric Laurent] — 11:57, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Seeking an opinion on Baklahorani[edit]

I'm wondering what you think about the recently revived carnival and the song about it. I think it could boost some tourism for Istanbul, particularly in the area of a different kind of tourism, do you? --Lo Ximiendo 02:16, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't really know anything about it besides what I quickly gleaned from Wikipedia to make that entry. To be frank, when I go to Turkey it will be for Turks and their culture. When I want Greeks, I'll go to Greece. lol — [Ric Laurent] — 02:23, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
The going to Turkey for Turks and going to Greece for Greeks might not always be the case, though. Besides, any thoughts about [the song]? (Lyrics [here].) --Lo Ximiendo 02:30, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
My laptop isn't doing sound right now, so I can't hear the song. The lyrics won't matter to me at all if I don't like the music, given my limited Turkish and Greek skills lol — [Ric Laurent] — 11:59, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
You operate from a laptop? I operate from a black Dell PC. --Lo Ximiendo 22:55, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
I would prefer a desktop, but yes, right now I'm working from a little Acer netbook. — [Ric Laurent] — 22:58, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Appendix:Common Persian verbs[edit]

Hi Ric,

Just letting you know that I have created a list of common Persian verbs. The list is imported without the translations and reformatted to avoid any copyright issues and I have changed the translit. to match Wiktionary (a few errors are still possible). I hope it can be useful. :) --Anatoli (обсудить) 05:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm sure it can :) I think some of them will have to be changed somehow because they useindefinite pronouns, like چیزی (something) and کسی (someone). — [Ric Laurent] — 11:57, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, I agree. Hmm, there's quite a few of them. --Anatoli (обсудить) 21:19, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Haha yeah, I noticed that... I suppose they can be split into sub-appendices. Appendix:Common Persian verbs/simple verbs, Appendix:Common Persian verbs/compound verbs by verbal element, Appendix:Common Persian verbs/compound verbs by nonverbal element, etc. — [Ric Laurent] — 21:35, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
I deliberately merged simple and compound verbs to make the export easier, including verbs like به دنیا آمدن but I didn't pay attention to verbs with non-verbal elements. Feel free to change if interested. :) (I left the Excel file with the codes at work, working from home today). --Anatoli (обсудить) 22:20, 30 January 2012 (UTC)


Selam canım, the template works great, but that v4 template uses the first parameter for "büyükler m_?" and it makes "büyükler mü?" instead of büyükler mi? That "m_?" can either be "mı" or "mi", depending on the plural suffix (lar/ler) Sinek 00:51, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

It should use {{tr-v2-v4}}[Ric Laurent] — 00:53, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
Síí graciaas :) Sinek 00:58, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
Benim için bir zevktir, güzel. — [Ric Laurent] — 01:06, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Georgian pronouns[edit]

If you want to do Georgian pronouns, here they are:

მე (me) I, me
ჩვენ (č'ven) we
შენ (šen) you (singular)
თქვენ (t'k'ven) you (plural, or polite singular)
ის (is) he, she, it
ისინი (isini) they —Stephen (Talk) 19:53, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
I actually think Anatoli did these ones before I'd even thought of Georgian. How complex are the pronominal systems of Khmer and Navajo? I've been avoiding some of the more complex languages so far... — [Ric Laurent] — 20:00, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
The Khmer pronoun system is complex. I’m not sure how to go about it. Maybe just the most neutral terms that correspond more or less with the English. Navajo just have pronouns, but they are not used much as independent words. They are almost always used as prefixes like that table in álaʼ. The high tone on the pronoun prefixes is not part of the pronoun, but part of the noun or postposition. With other nouns and postpositions, the pronoun prefixes would have no tone. —Stephen (Talk) 23:45, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
I'll parse and refilter that through my own point of view as "sufficiently complex to scare you off" :D Still, there's lots of other ones to keep me occupied.... We'll get them all eventually. — [Ric Laurent] — 00:18, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Can you create Template:xcl-personal pronouns with this?

ես (es) I
մեք (mekʿ) we
դու (du) you (singular)
դուք (dukʿ) you (plural)
նա (na) he, she, it
նոքա (nokʿa) they

--Vahag 10:01, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Sure, it'll be easy. Was դուք used to be polite to one person like in modern Armenian? — [Ric Laurent] — 13:44, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
As far as I know, no. Ancient peoples were not so sanctimonious. --Vahag 13:58, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Awesome. I love ancient peoples. — [Ric Laurent] — 14:00, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
All done. — [Ric Laurent] — 14:06, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Merci! --Vahag 14:16, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Խնդրեմ, ախպերս: — [Ric Laurent] — 14:25, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Stephen, I know Asian pronouns are complicated and the usage/importance differs greatly from European languages but could you make something like Template:th-personal_pronouns for Khmer - just the basic most common perhaps? In the Thai template I haven't included a number of colloquial pronouns and nouns used occasionally by men to women and vice versa. For Vietnamese and Japanese it's probably going to be a page with various comments, perhaps it's too hard to fit into a concise template. --Anatoli (обсудить) 22:43, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
I did it at Template:km-personal pronouns, but the formatting probably needs more work. —Stephen (Talk) 04:50, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, Stephen. --Anatoli (обсудить) 05:06, 6 February 2012 (UTC)


If that's a joke, I don't get it. — [Ric Laurent] — 12:52, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
Nevermind then.Lucifer 16:23, 22 February 2012 (UTC)


Could you check deivė? Is it a noun or a noun form? It doesn't look like a plural form. Maro (talk) 23:15, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Improvement achieved. — [Ric Laurent] — 00:30, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Answers by Air Miss[edit]


I am sorry for so much delay in answering (five months for your first post and four for your second post!): I study in another country (without any own PC) than the one where I usually live.

Pre-scriptum: What do you mean by 'someone less abrasive'?

جوان ـها (ҷавон -хо) (posted by you, 22:27, 25 September 2011)[edit]

I thought there was something wrong with the template, because it appeared like that on my screen. Thank you for caring about this and the redundancy of ҷавон and جوان. --Air Miss Ѡrite 15:38, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

‘Issues’ (posted by you, 18:14, 1 October 2011)[edit]

  • I am sorry about the ū (I didn't read correctly one of the books we have about Fārsi)
  • Sorry, too, for the appearance of ک in جوانک, written like in Arabic. I speak rather fluently Arabic, but I don't know Fārsi. ک: That's what I read indeed on the books we have — dictionaries, courses, grammar and small brochures. That's also what the ISIRI 2901-configured keyboard renders, but see for yourself at the Aryanpour dictonaries (it was my reference at that time), where they give it as جوانك, when you look for the translation from English to Fārsi. I thought it was a special case where we had to write ك.
  • Now, about â versus ā
    • Except for two leaflets, both written by British authors, and a book published in France, all the books we have use ā, not â;
    • Could you take a moment to read what a Wikipedia aricle section says about Transcription of Fārsi says, which I undestand as a norm here too, and as a guideline for every "Wikipedian", established after the main up-to-date works : ā, not â, there, and here too.

So: What are we going to do? May I replace the âs I see into ās, for Fārsi as for Arabic and others? --Air Miss Ѡrite 15:38, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

More about Fārsi[edit]

When he studied Fārsi, my father never bought any dictionary or lexicons that I can really use, because there are no vowel signs. Are there any dictionaries or other online resources with vocalised words? It would be great! --Air Miss Ѡrite 15:38, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

«I know one dictionary that shows vowels [...]»: Could you give me this dictionary reference. I wish it weren't dear, because my purse is in desperate straits...
«[...] I'm not really that comfortable with you editing Persian here. Not unless you study it and learn more about it first». Take it easy, that's what i'm going to do, But I'd like to have tools to learn this poetic and so ‘cultural language’, with tools make for me.
«"Someone less abrasive" -> I'm an asshole. "Someone less abrasive" would be someone who is not an asshole, or someone who is less of one» — I don't why you say this. I found you've been (very) rude to me to start with, but I'm a girlie girl, which do trace her track among strong smellings of testosterone in the world of the professional and airline pilot students. But now this impression about you has gone, and I understand that when you defend what seems to be true, or even have to fight for it, you just do what I do.
I have trouble to evaluate my language proficiency with the Babel mark scale used on wikis — I'm still used to this system which separates understanding and speaking, reading and writing, which field of language are we talking about ('street talking', news, technical, etc.). My mate is an Arab Israeli: he says that there's no problem in most semantic fields when I speak/write/read etc. Hebrew and still less about Arabic and Islam, but how can I decide that I should precise I'm an ar-1 or ar-4.
Another case: my native language is Northern Sami, but until last September when I began to take e-courses (as I live outside the Sami lands for several years and i was at school in bokmål, I could barely read and had some difficulty to understand some words from NRK Sápmi: TV Ođđasat - NRK Sámi radio (TV, radio and web news and magazines): Am I a se-0?
I'm still wondering what to do — probably providing no information at all. But you, why do sport a fa-1 mark? --Air Miss Ѡrite --Air Miss Ѡrite 23:27, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Su what?[edit]

Why did you revert my edits to su? I made both of those edits in good faith and do not see what was wrong with them. Interchangeable (talk) 21:44, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Shit if I know. Maybe I flicked a wrong button somewhere. If you thought what you did was so hot, do it again. — [Ric Laurent] — 02:27, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
I thought it was a good revert (if pretty marginal) as the usage notes actually are usage notes, and seem relevant. 00:40, 13 March 2012 (UTC) (User:Mglovesfun not logged in).

Template:ar-proper noun[edit]


I tried to add gender to proper nouns but something didn't work the way I expected. Could you have a look, pls? --Anatoli (обсудить) 01:22, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Should be taken care of, barev. :D I'm always glad to help you. — [Ric Laurent] — 13:14, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
Спасибо, дружище :) --Anatoli (обсудить) 13:35, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
Haha, не стоит благодарности! :D — [Ric Laurent] — 14:16, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

fighting words[edit]

I was reading this old story (Turkish version) about Turks killing each other over accidentally dotted [[i]]s : [[sıkısınca]] / [[sıkışınca]] (said to mean "you get backed into a corner" or "you run out of arguments") was mistakenly rendered [[sikisince]] / [[sikişince]] (supposedly "you get fucked" or "they are fucking you"). I noticed that we not only don't have entries for either, we don't even list either as an inflected form in any other entry... could you create entries for those words and/or figure out what the lemma forms are? ([[sıkılmak]] and [[sikişmek]], perhaps?) If people have been killed over this, I think cautionary usage notes are in order...! heh. - -sche (discuss) 23:23, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

According to this blog entry by Dr. Bill Poser, these are the gerunds of sıkışmak (to get wedged, to get in a tight spot) and (as you surmised) sikişmek (to fuck). —RuakhTALK 23:33, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
I don't think gerund is quite the right word, Turkish has a lot things literally have no direct analogue in English... At any rate, I don't think I'm the one to ask on this; though I'm curious to see the result, it'd be better to ask Sinek. — [Ric Laurent] — 00:19, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
Alright, I've created sıkışmak with a usage note, and added a usage note to sikişmek. (Feel free to add the conjugation to sıkışmak.) I'll ask Sinek if he knows what to call the forms, and whether or not we should list them in the conjugation tables. - -sche (discuss) 00:27, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
Heh. Sinek and I (mostly Sinek, but I suspect once it gets to the mechanics I'll step up more) have been working on a more complete Turkish conjugation template. It'll be nightmarishly large, as the mathematical manner in which Turkish verbs behave allows them to be ferociously complex.... — [Ric Laurent] — 00:31, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
Re: "gerund": In my experience "gerund" is a bit of a catch-all term, used for a variety of quite different verb forms in different languages. It's usually applied to non-finite verbs that are either noun-like (like gerunds in English, e.g. writing) or adverb-like (like gérondifs and gerundios in French and Spanish, e.g. en écrivant and escribiendo). So to apply it to Turkish forms in -ınca/-ince probably isn't wrong, but also probably isn't useful. The more so because elsewhere on the Web the term "gerund" seems usually to be applied to a form that's more like English gerunds, whereas this form is clearly more adverb-like. Turkish: A Comprehensive Grammar describes it as one of a number of converbial suffixes used to form non-finite adverbial clauses; I'm not 100% sure what "converbial" means, but elsewhere the book gives the specific examples yüzince (when [someone] swims/swam), kalkmayınca (when [someone] doesn't/didn't get up), and those do match up with what we know of sıkışınca and sikişınce from this news item. (N.B. those examples are on a nonpreviewable page, and Google's OCR is crap for Turkish, so I've made my best guesses what the right spellings should be, but please don't bluelinkify them without verifying.) —RuakhTALK 03:30, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

pink slime[edit]

is under attack by User talk: what can be done!Lucifer (talk) 00:12, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Pashto transliteration[edit]

Hi. Wiktionary:PS TR lists only 7 vowels (a, â, e, ë, i, o, u). I think (at least) 2 more letters should be added to differentiate between short and long [I] and [O]. So the letters under ي and و should be changed to differentiate them from the short vowels represented by diacritic marks in the Pashto alphabet. Avestan Pashtun (talk) 04:41, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

As fascinating as I find Pashto, I don't care what the hell you do with it. You moved all the Persian Kaf entries to Arabic Kaf without asking me why I did that, so why do you bother asking me about this?
I hope you'll forgive me aggression, but you do whatever you want to.
I'm pretty much done really caring about Wiktionary, I'm sure I'll still edit and everything but there's no way I'm going to put as much effort as I have over the past 5 or whatever years just to keep dealing with nonsense. — [Ric Laurent] — 13:43, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
Hi friend, sorry to butt in. Just a quick question regarding Pashto. Are we using the Persian ی or the Arabic alif-maqṣūra ى to represent Pashto ai? Right now, I'm seeing both used as such, even though the transliteration page points to alif-maqṣūra. Thanks. --Dijan (talk) 07:46, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
On that note, half the other letters in Pashto. I remember reading once that less than 20% of Pashtuns are literate in their language, so I think it's kind of amusing that such a huge deal should be made of it.
Fail fail fail all around — [Ric Laurent] — 13:43, 1 April 2012 (UTC)


Please comment at Template talk:el-decl-noun#Changing the format if you have any views — Saltmarshαπάντηση 05:28, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, no. — [Ric Laurent] — 15:46, 4 May 2012 (UTC)


All I've seen them do is Farsi translations and etymologies, all formatted correctly. Mind showing me a diff where they did something messy and didn't clean up after themself? --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 23:55, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

"Farsi", ugh.
For one thing, he or she keeps marking stuff with {literature} when he or she means literary. Not using lang=fa, including ? in phrasebook links, using "aa" instead of â, sh instead of š. — [Ric Laurent] — 00:16, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
Alright, I'll tell them on their talk page. (And 'Persian' just sounds too contrived and Anglicized.) --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 00:33, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
"Farsi" isn't even its native name. Farsi is an Arabicized corruption, so get a little more meta. — [Ric Laurent] — 01:08, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
I'm not sure I agree with this statement. "Farsi" may not be the traditional native name, but I believe it's the name currently used by most native speakers when speaking it, so I think "native name" is an apt description. I note that the Persian Wikipedia article on the language is titled زبان فارسی (zabān fārsi). (But I agree with you on the larger and more relevant point, which is that given current English usage, "Persian" is a superior L2 header.) —RuakhTALK 02:00, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
It's sort of nativized, but as a person who deeply loathes exonyms, I reject it personally. (Oh, it's zabān-e fārsi. Grammatical thing called ezafe. Or izofa, depending on your dialect.) Farsi might be the modern most common name, but it's because Arabic has no "p", so they said Farsi... and then somehow that became what Persians called it. Unfortunate, but... eh. — [Ric Laurent] — 02:22, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
Re: "-e": Whoops, thank you. (I've just started learning Persian less than a week ago, so I don't even have the very basics yet, can you tell? :-P   I'd heard of putting "-e" between noun and modifier, but I didn't realize until now that it's not written with a ‍ه.) —RuakhTALK 02:32, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
Oh, and it's corrupted from "PARSI". So yeaaaah really Anglicized. — [Ric Laurent] — 01:08, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
LOL :) <3 --Dijan (talk) 03:49, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
<3 تو — [Ric Laurent] — 11:29, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
And native-speakers themselves hate to call it in this way, and unfortunately پارسی has become a bit literary in modern Persian. But worse than that is when we see English-speakers are also using this word instead of the beautiful Persian. Btw isn't it fārisī in Arabic? perhaps it is different in different dialects.. I don't know really. --Z 20:56, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
Oh and also that's "he" Ric. --Z 20:58, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
As far as I know, it's فارسي fārsi in standard Arabic. — [Ric Laurent] — 21:47, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
They normally and in isolated form call it الفارسية though (in MSA), as they call Arabic as العربية (which is shorten form of اللغة العربية I think) except some dialects including Egyptian AFAIS which don't put ة when the language name is isolated. --Z 22:22, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Oh about "?", there is no problem for Persian (and several others) because question mark is a different character in Persian. --Z 21:05, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

We don't use punctuation in page titles. Period. :P — [Ric Laurent] — 21:47, 16 May 2012 (UTC)


I've seen you left WT:RE:sh#л/l, Л/L a note there. I've just created this entry, so I was wondering does this work for you? Essentially it is just a small pot, type of diminutive for lonac. If it makes a difference, care to remove the entry from WT:RE:sh? Cheers, --BiblbroX дискашн 22:24, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Dude, it's your native language, I trust you :P — [Ric Laurent] — 23:14, 16 May 2012 (UTC)


That present subjunctive part needs some polish, for example in شکستن, it should be man beškanam (not bešekanam), beškanim, .... Some other verbs are so too. Also we should add Tajiki forms and so forth.. --Z 23:31, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

I feel there is a lot to do here (on Persian), but I don't know where they are and where I should start from, lol, so I'm just randomly looking at templates. About my edit on Template:fa-conj/âmadan, they are biyây, biyâym, biyâyn, ... weak /j/ --Z 00:04, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Tajik verbs have their own tables. And yeah, vowel-dropping isn't something the tables handle. I don't know where the fuck they put the templates in categories now since they keep fucking changing it, but there's a category where you can see all the conjugation templates for Persian and Tajik. I used to have plans for expanding the conjugation templates, but wiktionary just has too many people who don't know anything but want to change everything and I just don't care enough to put that much effort in anymore. — [Ric Laurent] — 00:37, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
Most of the templates of wiktionary are crap IMO and just make editing too hard and I believe most of these things should be handled by extensions or at least JS tools like adding translations. Conjugation templates are realy cool though. I was thinking about adding (early) New Persian forms since it has different phonology and so forth. BTW: there is (was) another form for verbs in New Persian which is not common in modern Persian though, I'm not sure what it is called in English, "imperfect tense" I think, it's equivalent of "used to" and is created with suffix ـی (early New Pers. -ē, Iranian: -ī, Tajik: -е), it comes after verbs in past form, for example "they used to go to school" is translated as به مدرسه رفتندی raftandē (modern Iranian raftandī). Conjugation templates of Arabic was aso cool, though they sometimes don't work, since each root can only be formed in certain patterns, كتب for instance, there is no such word as تكتيب taktiib AFAIK. I talk a lot and never shut up. lol --Z 09:51, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
You'll find that I myself made a lot of the most impressive template tables on Wiktionary, including the ones for Arabic conjugation. Only a tiny handful of the Arabic ones are complete. They're an absolute nightmare to code. — [Ric Laurent] — 12:43, 17 May 2012 (UTC)



Could you please delete this page. This word does not exist in Bashkir - it looks like a misspelling of һүҙлек. Borovi4ok (talk) 14:14, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanx! Borovi4ok (talk) 14:15, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
BTW, there are coupla more cases like that. Will approach them a bit later. Borovi4ok (talk) 14:16, 22 May 2012 (UTC)


Are you User:Pereru? Please say yes. --Maria.Sion (talk) 23:31, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

What is this, a joke? Find someone else to bother. — [Ric Laurent] — 00:28, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Besides, User:Pereru asked me about what happens if {{lv-noun}} is used, so I said that it might have something to do with using declension types in it; I think s/he needs some mentoring on making or updating templates such as that. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 01:48, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
I don't give a shit, take this somewhere else. — [Ric Laurent] — 12:02, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
No, I'm most definitely someone else. I still care about shit. --Pereru (talk) 15:25, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
You'll get over that when people who don't know shit about Latvian start trying to tell you how much better their way is than yours. — [Ric Laurent] — 15:41, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Maybe I'll end up not caring, maybe I won't. The paths of life often lead to unexpected places. --Pereru (talk) 01:18, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Romanian ahem[edit]

Just to let you know, I deleted the whole Romanian section in ahem. Something similar does exist in Romanian, but it is neither spelled ahem, nor pronounced [ahem] or [ahəm]. — AdiJapan 13:50, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Nu-mi pasa. Deloc. (Habar n-am de ce ai crede altcumva. Uita-te la pagina mea, te rog.) — [Ric Laurent] — 16:53, 3 July 2012 (UTC)


Hi Laurent
Firstl I thank you for the creating of template:ku-decl.I have created the templates for masculine and feminine nouns.A problem is occured:Words that end in -î change the î to -iy- before adding any endings.Could you help me to remedy this pronlem.Thanks.GeorgeAnimal. 08:38, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
For example: oblique plural of azadî--> not azadîyan---> but rather: azadiyan.GeorgeAnimal. 11:32, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
the î changes during the declining into i.Could create a extra ku-decl-noun template for it.For example template:ku-decl-noun-iy or...?Thanks a lot--GeorgeAnimal. 10:18, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Wiktionary:About Yiddish[edit]

Hi! I've just created this page, which is meant to have a centrally located repository of information about the standardized treatment of Yiddish on Wiktionary. I'm giving you this message because you have shown interest in Yiddish, and we need your help! The page especially needs better coverage of the many undocumented headword-line and conjugation templates, but any assistance is welcomed. Please feel free to edit the page, and to raise any issues for discussion at Wiktionary talk:About Yiddish. Thanks so much! --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 03:15, 16 September 2012 (UTC)


I saw you substituted template:fa-ZWNJ, let me know if your keyboard is not configured properly for Persian or you have problems in typing the character. --Z 17:01, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

I've never encountered the character on the Persian keyboard layout for windows, which I don't think can be edited. — [Ric Laurent] — 20:29, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
I think it is a Ctrl-Shft 2. There are some keyboards (or maybe it has to do with the OS) that put it on a different key, but I believe MS Windows Persian keyboard places the ZWNJ on Ctrl-Shft 2. —Stephen (Talk) 00:35, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
That depends on the OS, try Ctrl+Shift+2, Shift+Space, if they don't work, install the standard Persian keyboard from here, then ZWNJ will be Shift+Space. See also w:fa:ویکی‌پدیا:فارسی‌نویسی, w:fa:فاصله مجازی#در سیستم عامل ویندوز --Z 08:06, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

still there[edit]

Could use your votes here if you have time. —Stephen (Talk) 03:55, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

For you and V, hell yeah. — [Ric Laurent] — 13:35, 15 October 2012 (UTC)


Why did you delete this template? What was the problem with it? I'm planning to work on Latvian verb paradigms now, and with that template gone I've lost quite a lot of work. Can it be brought back? --Pereru (talk) 11:21, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Maybe I lost quite a lot of work on those templates when you decided to change them for no good reason. When you changed them, you left a lot of pages that already used them fucked up. Good job. — [Ric Laurent] — 13:33, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, but Pereru always fixes shit he breaks. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 18:07, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Maybe eventually. But the entries to which I refer were fucked up for a while before I even noticed my template had been completely changed without my being consulted. It's not like I put any work into my templates or anything. — [Ric Laurent] — 18:27, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
I don't see any problem with them now. Hope you're not in a foul mood. I have no bad intentions, and I believe in what I'm doing. --Pereru (talk) 17:12, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
As for the "not consulting you" -- you weren't really forthcoming with answers. I asked around in the Information Desk, where I was told the Latvian templates "were a mess" (and indeed they were: two or three different formats for noun declensions, for instance) and I'd be welcome to fix them. So I did. --Pereru (talk) 17:15, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
Of course you believe in what you're doing or else you would not be doing it. I do not pay attention to the "information desk" or any other administrative pages. I'm too busy doing things of worth. As it happens I have no present desire to work on Latvian so you can feel free to unilaterally take any actions you feel to be necessary regardless of their actual effects, and you do not need to reply here again. — [Ric Laurent] — 17:21, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

kool keep[edit]

In case it's no longer on your much-reduced watchlist, you might like to know that this entry you created has been listed at WT:Requests for verification#kool keep. Since Yucatec Maya is an LDL, a single mention (e.g. in a dictionary) is sufficient for it to pass RFV. —Angr 12:42, 22 December 2012 (UTC)


Just wanted to let you know about this new IPA template since you're good at IPA and template-making. You can see a sample output here. The idea is still crude and the template may be erroneous. --Z 14:32, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

The functionality is pretty impressive, but to be honest after spending more than six years on Wiktionary I've come to realize that most of the people who edit here care more about being nice to people who are fucking up than they do about things being correct, so I'm not really taking the place seriously anymore. Eventually some idiot will come along and start messing up our work on Persian. Wiktionary could be awesome if we didn't put every idiot with a Hippocrene dictionary on the same level as the people who really care about building an awesome online linguistic resource. I wouldn't be here at all if there were a good alternative. — [Ric Laurent] — 15:01, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
I understand, sad to see you being inactive, hope to see you around more in future anyways (I like editing English Wiktionary but am suffering some sort of loneliness in this project lol) --Z 18:24, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
My Persian is admittedly not excellent, which is unfortunate because Persian is...just freakin' awesome. One thing I never managed to get around to was making conjugation templates for verbs that start with آ and ا. And I guess other vowels less frequently. — [Ric Laurent] — 19:57, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
I created fa-conj-lit-â‎ (example) and fa-conj-lit-a‎ (example), though it seems a similar template already exists: fa-conj-aa-tan --Z 21:00, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
Yes, there were already conjugation templates for Persian before I got here, but they were... not that impressive. I don't think the person who made them understood that it was unnecessary to have different templates for -tan and -dan verbs. So I started making new ones that had visible transliteration, instead of having to hover your mouse to see them. — [Ric Laurent] — 21:06, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
Yeah new ones are better, we should add optative and negative imperative moods to them though. --Z 21:21, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
I've never seen the optative used anywhere but شاید and باید, so I decided not to mess with it. I thought of including negative imperative, but I'd rather just have another table with all negative forms. — [Ric Laurent] — 21:28, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
Yeah it's rare in modern Persian, it is used in classic and poetic works. --Z 21:44, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
< Yeah, that's what I thought. My focus on here was almost always on more modern and colloquial stuff. Arabic is the one major exception. — [Ric Laurent] — 21:48, 30 December 2012 (UTC)