User talk:Panda10/Archive 2

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Vandalism warning[edit]

Please refrain from making uncostructive edits in wiktionary. If you continue, you will be blocked from editing. --Rtghhh 21:33, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

This is the last warning you recieve. The next time you vandalise, as you did in cerebrospinal fluid, you will be blocked. --Rtghhh 21:38, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Nonsense. Please ignore Rtghhh, Panda10. You've done nothing wrong. Rod (A. Smith) 22:00, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Thank you. --Panda10 22:10, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

botched rollback[edit]

I blocked HT. I then posted a note on your talk page, then realized I may have botched my ability to rollback the HT changes, rollbacked my message, but that didn't enable me to do a good roll-back. Sorry that I didn't get it right. Happy that you're back in business. DCDuring TALK 22:45, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

No problem. I saw your message and the rollback. Later I asked Rod to restore the page because I did not know how. Thanks for blocking HT. --Panda10 22:58, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


Could you create the entry for this word, including etymology? I think it would make a good example for the WT:AHU section about Etymology formatting, but I can't write the text without knowing which language it came into Hungarian from. The word doesn't appear on hu:wikt either. --EncycloPetey 05:50, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I wish I could. When I went through the existing Hungarian words, several contained etyomologies, and I thought it would be good to verify them, but I don't have the proper sources. I am US-based and the only paper source I have is the largest 4-volume Orszagh dictionary (2 volumes for English-Hungarian, 2 for Hungarian-English). I've found a lot of good grammar materials in the past two months on the internet. But nothing for etymology. I was going to ask you how you find the etymology for words. I've been also working on the conjugation templates. With the current base template, I created two specific templates, many more will be needed, and I think it will be too many and instead it should be coded. I'd love to help and contribute, but it's not that easy. Another difficulty is that I was not able to find other Hungarians yet who would be interested in building Wiktionary. And by the way, how did you pick this word? --Panda10 22:36, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't include etymologies often, because there are many people heer much better at doing English etymologies than I am. I do include Latin etymologies with some regularity. I am able to give Latin etymologies for Spanish words because I have a Spanish language dictionary (not bilingual, just Spanish) that indicates the Latin source, and I can then pull information about the Latin word from my Latin resources. Some of my Latin dictionaries include etymologies for Latin words (and are no longer under copyright), so I can glean information from those dictionaries.
I picked the word zselé knowing that it is related to "jelly". It might come from English or French but I can't be sure. I originally wanted the Hungarian word that sounds like (and comes from) "jam" but could not remember how to spell it. I learned both words on my one visit to Hungary, when I spent two months there teaching English. --EncycloPetey 01:06, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
"jam" = "dzsem" if you mean the sweet stuff made from fruits.--Panda10 01:24, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Ogg filenames[edit]

Wow. I don't know. I've never tried recording Hungarian. Is it really a problem with Shtooka, or is it a problem with your player or the format? That is, can you try inserting those characters into some other .ogg file name and still play them? If they still won't work and it looks like a Shtooka problem, we can contact the programmer. --Dvortygirl 07:26, 2 March 2008 (UTC)


Like this [1]. See how I formatted Category:la:Talking. The new templates are easy once you understand where everything is. --EncycloPetey 16:07, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

trans tables[edit]

I am generally not adding the glosses for one of two reasons a) there are multiple senses and I do not know the meanings of the translations or b) there is only one sense and when there is only one sense the gloss is not necessary. When the translations are already associated with glosses I do try and add the glosses to the tables. - TheDaveRoss 21:19, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


Is the name ever spelled this way in Hungarian? If not, it could be formatted as an English misspelling, like Francois and Jurgen.--Makaokalani 15:09, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

It is never spelled like this in Hungary. I like your suggestion to format it as an English misspelling. --Panda10 15:48, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

maritime pine[edit]

I think I figured out a decent layout. Take a look. DCDuring TALK 21:41, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it does look really nice! Thanks. --Panda10 21:45, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

A bit over due: thank you so much for looking at entries and fixing other things as well! Robert Ullmann 23:43, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome! I hope one day I can contribute to coding as well. --Panda10 23:52, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
FYI: at decens, the confusion is that "Participles" is a (non-standard) L4 header, the POS/L3 header is a (non-standard) "Participle". Fixed. Robert Ullmann 17:12, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Alternate spellings[edit]

Why are you moving the alternate forms section in Japanese words above the POS? According to WT:AJA, it belongs under the POS, labeled "Alternate forms."--Hikui87 04:46, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

It's no problem. I'm just glad you're willing to help out. Thanks for what you do. --Hikui87 14:40, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Should be "Alternative forms" (don't change "...forms" to "... spellings"), "alternate" was a misuse. Yes it is normally L3 above the POS (first header in section), but as noted is sometimes below the POS (e.g. specific to that POS), but then must be L4; WT:AJA explicitly allows this for Japanese. What AF was complaining about at 糊涂 (and フランス, etc) was that it was under the POS at L3, and couldn't be automatically sorted. Robert Ullmann 15:35, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Ah, ok, thanks. I wonder if this could be added to ELE - there is no section on Alternative spellings and its possible variations. A simple link in this section could also point the editor to the Japenese AJA or other exceptions for reference and to see the differences. --Panda10 15:43, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


Please note that this edit of yours reduced our page count. In order to be counted by the software, an entry must have an explicit wikilink. I have done this for the page in question. --EncycloPetey 23:31, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Ül a babérjain[edit]

An anonymous user added this. It looks Hungarian to me, but it needs extensive cleanup and translation (if it should be kept at all). --EncycloPetey 21:49, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

noun phrases[edit]

Hi Panda10: I noticed you doing some general work on noun phrases lately. Just wanted to pass along a tip someone gave me: If you use this programming {{en-noun|sg=[[word1]] [[word2]]|-}} you do not need to enter [[Category:English nouns]]: it will be listed there automatically. There is also a similar one for adjective phrases {{en-adj|sg=[[word1]] [[word2]]|-}}. See for example my tweak to crown fire[2]. Goldenrowley 04:20, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Hungarian cleanup[edit]

User:Mutante has generated a complete list of Hungarian words lacking categories: [3]. --EncycloPetey 16:06, 6 May 2008 (UTC)


Hey, thanks for all your help! As I noted, some of the things my automation finds are really hard to see ... take wroth, where the Japanese looks fine ... but the open paren is (was) the ideographic character, while the close is "normal" (!). It is okay to treat as fixed, it will get picked up again if not. Robert Ullmann 23:13, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Sure thing. This exercise does require very close attention! :) --Panda10 23:22, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

niche is another you'll appreciate: it sure did look okay, but really it had two ('s, with one flipped because it was inside the RTL zone of the Arabic script. Now it has ( and ), but looks wrong! (We need someone who knows Persian to fix it anyway.)

I looked at rational number over and over again, finally wrote a specific QA code test ... it was matching the ad hoc /...{.../ rule I had added to keep SAMPA from showing up too many times! With the stuff between the /'s elided, it was then mismatched. (;-) Robert Ullmann 12:02, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, niche was interesting, this was my first encounter with the RTL zone within regular text where keys suddenly move the cursor in the opposite direction. I played with it but I did not realize the significance of being in the zone :) so I decided it was balanced. Thanks for the explanation. --Panda10 12:26, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Category cookware[edit]

Hi. I see you are adding stuff to this category. Do you intend it to be more like kitchenware, including, for example carving knife? If so, I will add the category to entries as I come across them in my sorties. -- Algrif 15:21, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I've been adding pans and vessels that belong to Cookware but were not added to it. We don't have a kitchenware category and I think we would need one. So Category:Cooking would contain Category:Kitchenware, Category:Cookware, Category:Cookware and bakeware. Although the last two are slighly overlapping. Is this what you were asking? --Panda10 16:56, 10 May 2008 (UTC)


Another uncategorized Hungarian word has turned up. --EncycloPetey 20:19, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Sheep counting[edit]

That's what I was doing originally, I have no idea why I swapped it. I've noticed there is a spelling error in one of my references too, so I'll have to go through and fix that anyway... J Milburn 20:02, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Found the source of my confusion- multiple etymologies, which would mean the lower tier was correct on pimp and dick, but not on tyan or tethera. Moving through them all now. J Milburn 20:43, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Adding spelling info to Hungarian articles[edit]

Re: WT:GP#Wiktionary Augmenting Unicode and others, I´m still trying to figure out how to present the information. My idea is to clarify how a (in this case Hungarian) word is spelled in its local language when the actual character string could be "parsed" different ways. For instance (and correct me if my knowledge of Hungarian isn´t great), whether "nny" appearing in a word is "ny + ny" or "n + ny". I think we´d only have to do this for words that could could be "parsed" different ways. I would definitely like to have this information helpful for making more correct indexes. As for whether that information should be displayed... I think it´d be helpful if it could be unintrussive. What are your thoughts? If I can come up with words that could be ambiguously parsed, would you be able to spell them out? A related question about Hungarian that you might be able to answer, is whether the appearance of di/trigraphs [cs dz dzs gy ly ny sz ty zs] are ambiguous. That is, are there cases where, for instance "dzs" appearing in a word is actually "dz" + "s", or "cs" is actually "c" + "s"? I´m also think of renaming {{collate as}} to something less search specific, such as {{letters}}, what do you think? Thanks for your help. --Bequw¢τ 03:46, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

If you come up with words that could be ambiguously parsed, I can help with spelling them out. The appearance of di/trigraphs can be ambiguous on occasions, especially if they are derived words or compound words. For example, in igazság (truth), the zs is z+s, since the noun was formed from igaz (true) + -ság noun-forming suffix. In vallásszabadság, the ssz is s+sz because this is a compound word, vallás + szabadság. This information is usually presented in the hyphenation line. I wonder if you could use that instead of creating another template. Do you have code that can generate the Hungarian index? Or you have other ways to test sorting? For the template name, letters sounds fine to me. --Panda10 11:19, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, that´s very helpful info. I moved the template. I thought about trying to merge it with hyphenation info. Were you thinking something like {{letters|i|g|a|z|—|s|á|g|||||}} or {{letters|dzs|u|n|—|g|e|l}} (not sure actually where they should break)? It could be cleaned up to not put letter seperators around the hypens. I´ll play with it. As for the index, I bet Conrad´s using some variant of IBM´s ICU libraries. (which is what I´ve been playing around with). The problem with those libraries is you can´t set the letter segmentation for specific words (you have to rely on their rule-based attempt at letter segmentation). I´m going to try and patch it so it´s possible. --Bequw¢τ 22:22, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Actually, what I meant was to use the information that is already presented in the hyphenation line as is without creating a new letter template and see if that is enough for sorting. If a di/trigrah is not separated in the hyphenation, it is a true di/trigrahp. If it is separated, they are two separate letters. This idea has to be tested. A few more ambiguous words: hódzsír (not dzs, but the compound of hód + zsír), térdzokni (not dz, but térd + zokni), társszerző (co-author) = társ + szerző. --Panda10 22:37, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
I've just read the new project page and now I see that the hyphenation line may not be enough for other languages. So if that cannot be used as is, than I like your idea of combining the letter and hyphenation templates if possible. --Panda10 22:49, 30 May 2008 (UTC)


hi, i am having trouble with the translation boxes. I tried doing one on my page, but it doesn't do the drop-down box thing. I think I'm doing something wrong. Could you help please? Thanks --nwspel tork kontribz 14:12, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok Thanks anyway
--nwspel tork kontribz 14:30, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Appendix:Hungarian words in -ász -ész[edit]

Wouldn't this be more clear if the title was 'Appendix:Hungarian words ending in -ász -ész'? Nadando 17:37, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it would. I thought about the appendix name and I looked at the existing appendix names for standard naming conventions. I've noticed that there are several appendices listing verbs and titled for example "Spanish verbs in -ar". I wanted to follow the established standard. I will move it to make sure it has "ending" in it. Thanks for your comment. --Panda10 17:47, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Re: Index[edit]

Hi Panda10, I've run it again and made it put all the indexes at Index:Hungarian/a. The index code now tries to keep track of parts of speech, so nouns are marked n. and verbs v., etc.etc. I can turn this off if you want. It also ignores plurals and other "form of" entries, in order to keep the indexes neater, again if you want them back I can get them. It'd be a bit tricky to give the bot at the moment, as it's really a collection of scripts that all rely on each other in a big mess. If I've made an obvious mistake with the sorting/splitting could you please let me know so I can try and make the code better. Thanks Conrad.Irwin 17:30, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I've tried 4/5ths of your suggestions, but I seem to have made a bit of a mess of words starting with the double-letters. I'll fiddle around a bit more. Conrad.Irwin 20:38, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Ok. Take three seems to work ok - I'm heading afk for a few hours though. Yours Conrad.Irwin 21:09, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure I'll get there eventually, thanks for your patience and for pointing out my errors. dob and fest and others like them are now there, it makes quite a big difference if multiple language sections actually work :s Conrad.Irwin 13:17, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Re: Template hyphenation[edit]

Fixed now, I just forgot to replace one of the dots - they are all now the unicode hyphenation point, instead of middots. Conrad.Irwin 23:04, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

P.S. Now you've been here for a while, would you accept if I nominated you to be a sysop? There's not much to it, just a few extra buttons to facilitate maintenance.
No problem. When you've got time, could you please indicate your acceptance at WT:VOTE. Conrad.Irwin 23:32, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


hey, i really cannot remember now whether it came from a comparative dictionary of turkisms in Serbian, Hungarian, Romanian and Bulgarian. But, I believe it might be an older spelling (possibly from late 1800s). I believe it's mentioned in "Név- és tárgymutató a Török-Magyarkori államokmánytár I-VII. köteteihez". Look it up on Google Books. --Dijan 19:36, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Like I said, I think it's an older spelling. I don't speak the language so I shouldn't really meddle into it...but if you guys think it's incorrect you can delete it or if you think it's dialectal please mark it.  :) --Dijan 19:54, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


Yes, it's valid, but an archaic suffix, and not used anymore. The front vowel version is/was -més. Let me paste this entry from my etymology dictionary: "Főnévképző. Az -m mozzanatos képző és az -ás/-és főnévképző összetapadásával keletkezett az ősmagyar korban. Igei alapszavakhoz járul. Csak néhány mély hangrendű szavunkban őrzödött meg: áldomás, hallomás, látomás, tudomás. Feltehetően már az ómagyar korban terméketlenné vált". - Etimológiai szótár - Magyar szavak és toldalékok eredete (Tinta Könyvkiadó, Bp.)

kanyar, hajadon[edit]

Hi! Would you take a look at kanyar, it may needs some formatting? And there's another one, hajadon, it is not as important, but I added the story behind the word in brief, but I couldn't draw it up properly. I would appreciate it if somebody would finish it, and I don't know anyone else who has competency for. Of course it is not required, if you don't feel like. Thanks. Baron de Saint-Rémy 13:07, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

eyetooth - thanks for the edit[edit]

Panda10, thanks for the edit at eyetooth. Wayne Roberson, Austin, Texas 21:12, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome. --Panda10 21:43, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

New buttons[edit]

Hi there. Welcome to sysophood. There is help somewhere if you can find it! SemperBlotto 15:43, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. --Panda10 15:59, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Pretty good. Please go update (add yourself or fill in missing info) table at WT:A). With all the things I was doing, I didn't even get to vote :-(. Plenty of help out here. Keep in mind: you won't be shot for doing anything that isn't malicious. Robert Ullmann 15:49, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, I updated WT:A. --Panda10 15:59, 25 June 2008 (UTC)


See edit(s). The issue AF is identifying is whether the pron should be above the multiple etys, as applying to both (all). Robert Ullmann 18:58, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the correction and letting me know. --Panda10 19:01, 27 June 2008 (UTC)


I've devised a new template; see három. I suggest not using it yet, because it's still experimental, and I'm looking for feedback. --EncycloPetey 22:13, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

It's a good idea. A few thoughts:
  1. The first line is Hungarian cardinal numbers but the box lists cardinal, ordinal, and other types. How about creating one box for all number types and labeling it Hungarian numbers, this way the same {numberbox} template could be used for all types of numbers without change.
  2. Can the text be vertically alined in the middle row? (e.g. három, harmadik, hármas - the first letters would be on the same vertical line).
  3. I believe hármas is not a multiplier, (that might be háromszor - three times), it does not have an English equivalent.
  4. Are you planning to add all forms? For example, harmad (third). Hungarian numbers can also get case endings. The list can get really long.
  5. Is there a way to simplify the template parameters and make the order more intuitive? For example, do we need to provide both the full language and lang=hu? Is it possible to figure out which language from the two-letter code? Why are kettő and négy provided as parameters if they are not used?
Example parameters:
{numberbox|2=kettő|3=három|4=négy|ord=harmadik|mult=háromszor|figure=hármas|lang=hu|wplink=3 (szám)}
Can we experiment with small changes and see how it looks? --Panda10 23:18, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the suggestions. A few replies:
  1. I thought about having one box for all sorts of numbers, but decided against it. Consider that the symbolic form of an ordinal number is usually different from the cardinal form: 1 vs 1st.
  2. I also thought about horizontal alignment, but it would require putting the label and link in separate table boxes, which would add an ugly line down the middle of the box.
  3. Re multipliers: OK.
  4. I'm intending for this to only be used on the lemma page of cardinal numbers.
  5. But kettő and négy are used. They are the link targets. The symbol is displayed (to keep the box narrow), but the link is made to the word's entry. There should be a way to get both the language name and language code from just entering the code, but I don't know how to do that.
--EncycloPetey 23:30, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
Your suggestion leaves off the symbolic forms. You can't say "2= kettő" because that tells the template that argument number 2 has a value of "kettő". The template has to have items in the same location each time. --EncycloPetey 23:35, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
I've switched some of the arguments to named ones. See Template talk:cardinalbox‎ for an explanation of how the arguments work. Does this make it a little more intuitive? It's always a balance between having them in a set order versus having to remember the code to the argument name. --EncycloPetey 01:19, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
...and I've figured out how to get the language name from it's ISO code, so the full language name no longer needs to be included. --EncycloPetey 04:59, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Looks good! --Panda10 17:51, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

BTW - The template is now ready for use! --EncycloPetey 08:24, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Declension templates[edit]

Hi! I've noticed that you have made a couple of declension templates for Hungarian, and I just wanted to say good job, and keep it up! And by the way, what is the process for those words that end to digraphs (szárny, ács, lány etc.)? Thanks. --Baron de Saint-Rémy 08:20, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

I am planning to create a separate template for each digraph (cs and sz were created and you can see the usage at abroncs), but if you have a better idea and know how to create only a single template with if or switch statements, please let me know. I am always looking for simplicity in templates (or in any solution), and always hoping to solve the declension and conjugation with only a few templates instead of multiple templates. But they have their limitations. Thanks for keeping an eye on it. --Panda10 12:24, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm afraid I can't serve with any idea concerning to templates, I haven't got into such deep level of Wikitext. --Baron de Saint-Rémy 12:47, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
No problem. I will keep creating them and if you'd like to start using them, please do. Any feedback is welcome. FYI: The hu-decl-k-front template name is going to be changed to hu-decl-k-front2 later today. --Panda10 13:03, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
If your can create a short list of the digraphs that need to be dealt with I may be able to create a single combination template that handles them. --EncycloPetey 16:50, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
That would be great. Digraphs: cs, dz, gy, ly, ny, sz, ty, zs; trigraph: dzs. The back and front vowel declension may still need separate templates. Thanks EP. --Panda10 17:13, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

I've edited {{hu-decl-csok}} so that it now works for any digraph. (You may want to rename the template!) It works by calling the new template {{hu-digraph}}, which takes a Hungarian digraph and creates the doubled form. I did not enter all the possible digraphs, but {{hu-digraph}} is a simple enough template that you should be able to add more digraphs yourself, as needed. The relevant coding is easy to understand; just be sure to add additional digraphs above the default line, which should come last. In fact, the template could double any letter (not just digraphs), if that makes things easier for you. --EncycloPetey 22:50, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

OK, I've made a slight change to {{hu-digraph}}, so that it always doubles the letter, whether it's a digraph or not (though digraphs have to be listed). With this change, I think {{hu-decl-ok}} will accept digraphs now. There should no longer be a need for a separate digraph template. How cool is that? --EncycloPetey 23:09, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Awesome! So much simpler to use. Thanks! --Panda10 23:20, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Instead of {{PAGENAME}}, couldn't you use {{{1}}}{{{2}}} ? --EncycloPetey 00:24, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Ah! I see. There are occasionally stem changes. If you want to combine stem changes with use of {{hu-digraph}}, then you need an optional parameter for the changed stem with the last consonant (or for the changed one). It would be easiest if this were a named template such as stem=. If you make a list of three examples where the stem changes, I can have a go at it, however I may not get to it today. --EncycloPetey 00:36, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
There is no hurry in making the changes. There will be more challenges as the templates will be applied to more and more nouns. Here is the list: hatalom (-ak), fejedelem (-ek), malom or álom (-ok), and tükör (-ök). --Panda10 02:28, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
It looks as though you've already solved the problem yourself. :) --EncycloPetey 01:09, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
Yes, based on your suggestion, I was able to figure it out. :) Thanks. --Panda10 02:00, 2 July 2008 (UTC)


Hmm, interesting; AF should be able to do better. Specifically, a line like:


should be interpretable. Thanks for fixing it. I'll see what I can tweak in the AF code. Robert Ullmann 18:33, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

There were a few other structural mistakes I corrected recently, wondering about AF, but I wasn't sure when AF runs. Immediately after clicking save, or only after a while. Should I mention it on the AF talk page if I run into something like that in the future? --Panda10 20:06, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
It waits 10 minutes after it sees an entry in RC, but then longer as it has a work queue, and is in no hurry. It doesn't want to cause edit conflicts if possible. On this entry, it took two tries (minor bug in the first), but see diff where it gets the same result as your edit. Yes, please add a note to the talk page when you see something like this. Thanks Robert Ullmann 08:53, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Uploading Hungarian audio[edit]

Hello. Sorry for so late response, but I'm actually on a wikibreak since a month (I'm writing my master's thesis).

DerbethBot is actually made from two independent scripts: first one for uploading files and second one for editing pages. I've already planned to upload some audio from Shtooka, because some new pronunciation packages have appeared there, but I just don't have time. I think it won't be a big problem to upload your pronunciation files and later add them to entries here on English Wiktionary, but there's one issue: I need some spare time. I think that after two or three weeks I'll find some time to start dealing with the pronunciation. I will contact you then, ok? Or if you think that you may not be reachable then, you can send me your pronunciation files now.--Derbeth talk 18:16, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Hello. Do you still have Hungarian pronunciation files to upload? I currently have some time to upload them. --Derbeth talk 18:11, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I have a script that automatically reads index file from Shtooka and prepares a list of files to upload, than another script that uses a bot account on Commons to upload these files. If you have your files in the same format as Shtooka collections from Shtooka website, it won't be a big problem for me to upload them. --Derbeth talk 23:27, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I think everything should be ok as long as you have a file "index.tags.txt" with file descriptions. --Derbeth talk 00:37, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

I think such file should be generated by Shtooka programs. You can download one collection (like German) and see how they're organised. I don't think that file containing information about hundreds of files can be hand-written; there has to be a way to create it automatically. --Derbeth talk 10:56, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Hungarian possessives[edit]

That's a tough issue, partly because of the sheer number of combinations that result. I think a good solution might be to use the shorter possessive declension template with (at the bottom) a note: "For full examples of possessive formation, see Appendix:Hungarian possessives." You then could put a few full-table examples in the Appendix to show how the endings combine, and just have the nominative (e.g.) in the template that goes on the entries. It's not ideal, and we may decide we want to have the full table on every Hungarian noun, but that's the solution I prefer for the moment. It could even be possible to add this into the main declension table, yes? --EncycloPetey 23:23, 14 July 2008 (UTC)


Hello there, I have reverted your latest edit to the article kent. Form of templates such as {{past of}} etc. should not be used in Etymology sections, instead they are used on the definition line next to the translation for foreign language entries. The Etymology section was not really required for this entry as that should be detailed on the article ken (i.e. the non-infelcted form of the verb). Regards, --Williamsayers79 11:14, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure that the format looks right when we do it that way, but in the interests of good-faith and the fact that we have Wiktionary:About Hungarian I will revert my change. Regards, --Williamsayers79 11:37, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


Both Hungarian#Proper_noun/Translations and magyar say magyar means "the Hungarian language". I thought that that was magyarul. Do you know?—msh210 22:09, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh, nevermind. I just answered my own question by reading -ul.—msh210 22:14, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

-ik verbs[edit]

Hello! I would like to ask, is it worth to create a separate category for -ik verbs, or I should not bother with it? Thanks in advance. --Baron de Saint-Rémy 19:21, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I think it would be good to have a category for -ik verbs. The question is how we want to accomplish that. Should I create a hu-verb template with one parameter for now (-ik) that would only do one thing: put the verb into the new category called "Hungarian verbs ending in -ik" under Category:Hungarian verbs. This would also give us the opportunity to use hu-verb for other verbs and categories. If we use this new category, the verb should not be added to Hungarian verbs, no reason to have it in both. Let me know what you think. --Panda10 23:24, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
Actually, it should be in both. The decision when we set up the grammatical categories was that the lemma forms should always be in the base-level category, even if they are in subcategories as well. While this is not true for topical categories, it is for grammatical ones. --EncycloPetey 01:26, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
I vote for hu-verb template. --Baron de Saint-Rémy 06:06, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
This is done. The verb will be in both categories. See usage at alszik. --Panda10 17:19, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
Looks like I'm done with the most of -ik verbs what I've found under Hungarian Verbs category. If I hadn't miss any, only those "pseudo" -ik verbs have not been categorized. They should be there too, shouldn't they - even though only the 3rd person has the ik-like inflexion?
Can you give me an example for a pseudo -ik verb? --Panda10 18:45, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
For instance hazudik - it's not written yet -, the expected 1st and 2nd person form would be "hazudom", and "hazudol", infact they are "hazudok" and "hazudsz". See [4], it calls these "álikes".
I agree, they should be there. The conjugation template (not yet created) will have to take into consideration the differences. Are there any other verb endings worth categorizing? --Panda10 19:00, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
I think there would be need for new categories only if we would want to categorize each verb by time. Otherwise I don't see the point to have an ultimate category, for example one for verbs ending -ul/-ül, but none for -ál/-él. Any other special verb that is worth to mention doesn't come to my mind for the moment. --Baron de Saint-Rémy 20:14, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation of 'ai' in loan words[edit]

It puzzles me how to mark the pronunciation of ai in words like Kairó. As /'ɒi/ or /'ɒj/? Please, could you help? Thanks. --Baron de Saint-Rémy 21:43, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

It depends on how you pronounce the i. If you pronounce the i as j such as /kajró/, then /ɒj/. If you pronounce the i as i such as /kajiró/, then /ɒji/. --Panda10 23:43, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: Horizontally aligned templates[edit]

That outer table inside {{hu-pos}} for reducing to 40% width screws it up, everything work fine if you remove it. Also, for it to work, you must use the templates in sequence: {hu-pos}, {hu-decl}. However, {hr-decl-noun}, when used like this, does not display properly the upper border of the left-aligned table, and I have no idea why is it so. I didn't give much thought to it (because I used these horizontally aligned templates only in one appendix), but maybe someone of the technical dudes at WT:GP could fix this. Sorry for a bit late response --Ivan Štambuk 16:48, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


This should really go last, after the audio file, since it is about spelling and writing rather than about pronunciation. --EncycloPetey 22:45, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

The recommended order in WT:ELE is hyphenation first, audio last. This is how I've worked in the last several months. --Panda10 22:51, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
That needs to be updated. We've had several recent conversations in which it turned out most people here though hyphenation was something to do with how words are pronounced. It doesn't. I wish we could move it out of the pronunciation section altogether, but no one wants to do so despite the fact that it's a spelling issue and has nothign to do with pronunciation. In any case, it makes no sense to separate the phonemic/phonetic IPA transcription from the audio, especially not when the information put in between is writing information. --EncycloPetey 23:01, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
Ok. I will put audio first, hyphenation second from now on. --Panda10 23:04, 25 August 2008 (UTC)