User talk:Thryduulf

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Contents 1 fast 2 Pronunciation exceptions 3 fifth 4 dare 5 vice versa 6 Templating hyphenation 7 long time no see 8 halo

[edit] fast

Thanks. Keyboard troubles. DCDuring TALK 11:21, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

I suspected as much, having done similar things myself in the past. Thryduulf 14:37, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation exceptions

We seem to be losing ground; in the last 3 weeks, the number has gone from 3962 to 4020, excluding things that AF will fix. I haven't changed the flag rules in that time.

One thing may be entries that AF could partly fix, so were not counted; now that it has done what it can, the remainder shows in the count. I'm not sure how many of these there are, but certainly some.

I'm wondering how many are new entries? Or newly added pronunciation information with problems? Robert Ullmann 14:01, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh, re Asia: I think we need more parameters in the template? then it can do 'or' or comma Robert Ullmann 14:03, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I agree about multiple parameters in Rhymes, if AF could combine them it would remove at least some non-templated rhymes hits from the exceptions list (e.g. entries like Asia). Thryduulf 14:37, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Did this. Will run the exceptions list a bit later with the new rules. See Asia. Robert Ullmann 13:02, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

And AF rule is working correctly in various cases; agley and shivaree. ☺ Robert Ullmann 13:19, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Have you tried it with the {{rhymes|foo}} ''or'' {{rhymes|bar}} formatting I was using?

I've updated the documentation at template talk:rhymes btw. Thryduulf 13:23, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

I thought I did that. (I'll go remove the one line I added ;-). I re-ran the list, allowing 1000 to be re-checked and included. It uses the new (rhymes etc) rules. I still need to have AF handle a lot more of the {a} cases for Min Nan (mostly at the end of the "remains" list. It doesn't combine {rhymes} or {rhymes}, just the cases where they are (still) links. Robert Ullmann 14:53, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

What do you think of removing lines like:

* [[SAMPA]]: //

as the don't add anything? Yes, they say "SAMPA not provided (yet)", but then the absence of the line does the same. Ditto IPA, AHD, and a couple of very odd cases of enPR. At some point I can do some version of the rhymes-but-no-IPA report to list entries with non-blank pronunciation sections that lack IPA. In the meantime lines like the above are pretty useless.

I could either have AF remove them from the entries, or simply leave them out of the this report. Robert Ullmann 10:47, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

If there is no actual pronunciation given in the section, i.e. it just has * [[SAMPA]]: // or similar then replace it with {{rfp|<type>}}, where <type> is whichever of IPA, SAMPA and enPR was being requested. If there is an obvious region statement (e.g. an {{a}} template, or something AF would convert to such) then put that as a comment in the rfp. I watch Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Requests_for_pronunciation so I'll add the ones I can as they appear.

If there one or more forms of pronunciation given, then just remove the empty line(s) and we can pick it up later with a report as you suggest. Thryduulf 14:33, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

It is possible to code that (although trying to pick up {a} is pointless, none of these have it that I've seen ;-). I'm thinking a bit simpler, given the cases I've looked at:

• if * [[IPA]]: // replace with {{rfp|lang=xx}}
• if SAMPA or AHD, elide the line (IPA is almost always present, and sometimes even given)

see mozzarella for one of the typical cases, they have ad hoc pronunciations or unmarked AHD (or pseudo-AHD). I think the primary objective is to get IPA in these. Yes? At vulcanologist it would simply remove the blank SAMPA line for now. Robert Ullmann 15:30, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the primary goal is to have at least one correct IPA pronunciation in all the entries, SAMPA and enPR are bonuses. If there is IPA present, then just remove the problem lines, otherwise add an rfp.

I'll fix the two you linked to shortly, but note the IPA in "vulcanologist" is actually for "*vulcanlogical" (which afaict from a quick google) is a non-existant word! Thryduulf 15:50, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I ran the report again with some rule changes (this and some better replace-in ops for {a}), number of entries that would be fixed by AF went up by 750, but other problems only down about 300. We are losing ground somewhere ... Anyway, plenty to munch on. Robert Ullmann 18:19, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm finding some entries that have /aɪpiːeɪ/ /<tt>s{mp@</tt>/. You fixed earlier those that were like this but also had enPR, but it seems those without got overlooked. Thryduulf 20:20, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

yes, the rule is looking for all three; I can look at the cases with two; tell me if you happen to note any that are not IPA and SAMPA. I (AF) is fixing the // cases, see accompanable and megalopolitan. THink this is just about right, as they typically have ad hoc pronunciation and need IPA. (Note that to see them in the "recentchangeslinked" page, you have to "Show bots" ;-) Robert Ullmann 15:02, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Where is the current list of articles neding pronunciation attention? I have some time this week (unless I get a call for a job I'm waiting to hear about), and could help reduce the number of problem entries. I took a wiki-break for most of October, but now feel rejuvenated. --EncycloPetey 20:26, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

User:Robert Ullmann/Pronunciation exceptions. Thryduulf 20:28, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm headed out right now, but will start on "l-z" later today. (I like to work from the middle of alphabetical lists because most folks start at "a") --EncycloPetey 20:35, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] fifth

I can't say I've ever heard the alternative pronunciation in the US, except in specific urban and African-American dialects. --EncycloPetey 23:41, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I hear it in lazy speech on this side of the Atlantic. I'll adjust the labels and write a quick usage note. Thryduulf 11:41, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Really? To me "fith" sounds perfectly normal. ("Fitty" sounds urban/AA, though.) —Ruakh_TALK 14:02, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Conversation continues at Wiktionary:Tea room#fifth. Thryduulf 14:32, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] dare

If that's what the IPA chart says, I suggest it should be changed. As it is, the pronunciation given doesn't even match the rhyme template (Rhymes:English:-eə(r) is a redirect to Rhymes:English:-ɛə(r))! As for the diphthong...it is true that RP used to be given as /eə/ for this vowel. However, as the Wikipedia entry notes, "/eə/ as in square is sometimes written /ɛə/, and is also sometimes treated as a long monophthong /ɛː/". This is the format used by Oxford for all their dictionaries, and also by Chambers (they don't use IPA, but they denote the same sound). This is also how we write the diphthong at Wiktionary:IPA_pronunciation_key. The other advantage is that it's much closer to actual pronunciation. Ƿidsiþ 19:29, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't know which more accurately represents the sound, but we should use whatever does - with one caveat we must use the same transcription as the pronunciation key we link to uses, to do otherwise would be unfair (imho) to users who are not familiar with IPA. What other dictionaries use is an argument that could be used in support of changing the pronunciation key, but are not relevant to what appears in our entries. It is the same with /a/ vs /æ/, changing the pronunciation key must come before changing entries. Thryduulf 20:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

The problem is that w:IPA_chart_for_English (which our IPAs link to) and Wiktionary:International Phonetic Alphabet (our own version) say different things. Maybe we should bring this to the attention of the Beer Parlour. Ƿidsiþ 20:47, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Wiktionary:IPA pronunciation key Is a more useful resource for the link target than the page you point to, but the Wikipedia chart for different English dialects is even more useful than either of our pages, and we should probably take a copy and modify it for our needs, linking to our existing pages. The lang= parameter of the {{IPA}} template makes it possible to direct users to an appropriate chart for the language concerned. This is a Beer Parlour type discussion though. Thryduulf 23:44, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] vice versa

You had tagged this in March. Was this ever discussed in TR? The pronunciation section is messy. DCDuring TALK 19:25, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Templating hyphenation

I was wondering why AF seemed to not find these cases; it was only adding the hyphenation template when it looked at an entry for some other reason. Found it, a missing flag on a call that was causing the prescreen to miss them. So now it is finding them directly, and fixing a bunch. Just FYI. Robert Ullmann 11:05, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] long time no see

Thryduulf! Prin fyth ydw i’n dy weld yma mwyach… (Ond gwelaf dy fod yn dal i gyfrannu o adeg i adeg.) Sut mae pethau? Ac sut wyt ti? † ﴾^(u):Raifʻhār ^(t):Doremítzwr﴿ 03:13, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

[edit] halo

I really appreciate your signature in Meta. I am not very adept at coding. I really want to represent the unity of the individual Projects and my relationship to them by having a unified signature across Projects that cross-references the principal Projects that I am working within. Wikipedia (ω), Wikiversity (ॐ), Wiktionary (Æ) will be appropriate at this time. I would like my name to default to my Wikipedia User Page and for each of my Project talk pages in turn I would like ω ॐ Æ. I really wanted the W that is two V overlapped but for the life of me I couldn't track it. I am not asking you to do it for me, but some salient pointers would be lovely. I find the manuals for coding really dense and opaque.
Thanking you in anticipation
B9 hummingbird hovering 09:20, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

That was excellent and gee I appreciate your time and assistance. Please contact me directly if you ever need assistance with anything.

Respectfully

B9 hummingbird hovering 13:47, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Hello mate. Would you like to go the Last Post? —This unsigned comment was added by 86.141.220.30 (talk • contribs).

I'm sorry, but I've got no idea what you are asking? Thryduulf 21:42, 29 September 2009 (UTC)