Wiktionary talk:About Persian

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Transliteration[edit]

I prefer to use the following system:

  • long "a" = â
  • short "a" (zabar) (fatha) = a
  • خ = x
  • ش = š
  • ژ = ž
  • long "i" = i
  • zir (kasra) = e

As for the ezafe, I prefer to place it in the transliteration as e preceded by a - (hyphen). What does everyone else prefer or what do they want to present for the offical policy? --Dijan 21:17, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I don’t have a strong preference, but I suggest what I put at Appendix:Persian transliteration. Feel free to modify it. —Stephen 23:50, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

New addditions[edit]

It looks very nice. Just a few things:

  • In ===Etymology=== section individual language template should be deprecated in favour of generic {{etyl}}. Most old folks are still accustomed to old templates, but the newcomers will love the flexibility of {{etyl}}.
  • An example with a loanword from Turkish otağ should be replaced with a better one (perhaps from Old Persian? ;), because 99% of all Turkish loanwords in all the languages are in fact from Ottoman Turkish (ISO code 'ota') which was written in Arabic script, not from this after-1928 Turkish with reformed orthography and lexis.
  • Example in the ===English-Persian=== section should use {{t}} instead of {{t+}}
  • Examples in ====Etymology==== section should be rewritten using {{etyl}} and {{term}}
  • Instead of using explicit categorization with [[Category:Persian nouns]] + reinstating the headword in every POS line, rewrite the examples to use {{infl}} with sc=fa-Arab, or maybe create {{fa-noun}} which should use it implicitly?
  • Dari and Tajik entries should not be put in ====See also==== section (that catch-all section that people tend to (mis)use for various purposes is likely to be deprecated sometime), but instead mentioned in ===Etymology=== section, as cognates or something. ===Etymology=== and ====Descendants==== sections are the only place where entries should link to other languages' entries. --Ivan Štambuk 10:59, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

References[edit]

Hi, I've created {{R:STEIN}} which can be used to reference comprehensive Persian dictionary compiled by Steingass in 1892 (thus out of copyright) and freely searchable here. However, I see several potential problems with it:

  • It transcribes pronunciations that may have shifted a bit by today, especially in the omnipresent Tehrani dialect of "New Persian" which I've read on WP had much innovation in phonology in the last century, as opposed to more conservative peripheral dialects
  • Some meanings (probably whole lot of them) are probably only used in the language of literature, and never colloquially, and thus distract from the primary, denotative meaning of the lexeme which should be listed first and emphasized
  • Some of the meanings have become dated, obsolete or archaic in the meantime.

Thoughts? --Ivan Štambuk 23:11, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

romanisation of چ[edit]

What's the romanisation of چ ? Is it č? Please specify in the body. I have just added the Persian translation of what time is it using this romanisation: sâ'at čand ast? (ساعت چند است؟). I hope it's right. --Anatoli 23:05, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Both č and ch can be used. The چ letter basically has the same sound as the ch in the English word "chair". Placebo 16:16, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Templates[edit]

No {{fa-noun}}, {{fa-verb}} on this page? Then it's out of date, we generally avoid writing the categories out like Persian nouns when a template can do it. Mglovesfun (talk) 20:01, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Misspelling[edit]

I think it is not good to use 'y' in phrases like 'Jomhuri-ye Eslâmi-ye Irân' because it makes the reader misspell that as 'Jomhuriie Eslâmiie Irân' (i accented like p in 'tappe') though it is practically pronounced 'Jomhurie Eslâmie Irân'; I think it is better to write this way: "Jomhuri-e Eslâmi-e Irân" --C.pazoki 17:03, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Sorry?? Mglovesfun (talk) 17:13, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
He’s talking about the ezafe, a sound that is used to connect nouns to their adjectives but which is not written. It is okay with me if we spell it -e instead of -ye, but how it’s spelled really will have no effect on how Persian students write it. It is elementary grammar and every student knows exactly what it is, no matter how it is spelled. —Stephen 18:13, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
(Bump) In terms of romanisation I used زبان فارسی (zabân-e fârsi), adding ezafe if it's pronounced. Are there objections? --Anatoli 03:52, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Spoken words used in casual conversations[edit]

I would like to bring some words into attention which I'm honestly puzzled are worthy of an entry or not. As an example I'd like to use the word باران. This is the formal and correct way to spell it and in formal speeches the word is pronounced "bârân" as the entry says.

But in casual conversations, most people in Iran have developed an "oon" sound so the word would be pronounced "bâroon" instead, seeing as the last vocal is shorter and easier to pronounce. "bâroon" is only informal.

If you had to spell this with Persian letters it would be spelled as بارون.

My question is, do you think بارون, تهرون, ایرون, زندون, etc. deserves their own entry?

I would like to point out that these words are frequently being used on the Internet. If you look up these words on Google you can find quite a few hits on them. بارون comes up with 1,150,000 results and images of rain. ایرونی comes up with half a million hits. قلیون comes up with appo. 50 thousand and lots of pictures of hookah.

So these words are used frequently. They aren't used as much as their formal counterparts but still enough so that there is a chance somebody might run into these alternative spellings.

Furthermore, the Persian Wiktionary has the fa:بارون entry added saying it's meaning is باران.

So my question is, are these words worthy of an entry? What is the best solution to this? Placebo 16:02, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Of course they deserve their own entries. If such entries are created, please make sure they are marked as "colloquial" or "informal" and that they have links to literary and/or formal Persian spellings. Take a look at توانستن (tavânestan), تونستن (tunestan) and تونسن (tunessan). --Dijan 03:31, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
I have tried to create a list with all of the words that came to my mind. There are many more that I will add as I remember them. Here is the list. The six entries that I have created so far are ایرون, ایرونی, بارون, تهرون, زبون, قلیون. Placebo 13:36, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Entering zero-width non-joiner[edit]

What are the methods to enter zero-width non-joiner on a computer? Apart from copying existing examples, I don't see another method. How is it done on Persian keyboards and on popular virtual keyboards? --Anatoli 03:44, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

It is located in different places depending on the Persian keyboard that you use. Commonly it can be accessed by typing shift-space, or ctrl-alt-2, or ctrl-shift-2. Yours may be different. My Windows XP-Pro uses ctrl-shift-2. —Stephen (Talk) 11:44, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
Thank you, Stephen. I try to type: خانه‌ام - my house, I saw it written this way in a textbook. Interesting that Google produced heaps of خانهام. --Anatoli 12:10, 21 February 2011 (UTC)