Appendix talk:Afrikaans and Dutch Swadesh lists

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Sources.[edit]

I'm getting some of the Afrikaans from w:Afrikaans_Swadesh_list, which has several errors and omisions. I'm getting the Dutch straight from w:Dutch_Swadesh_list. -- Jeandré, 2006-04-16t10:37z

Rename page.[edit]

Afrikaans is not a major language and the list at Appendix:Swadesh list has already filled the page. Feel free to rename it or incorporate it into another. This could become a list for the smaller languages, inlcuding e.g. the Flemishes. If it is to remain an Afrikaans centric page, German, French, and Malay could be included. -- Jeandré, 2006-04-16t10:32z

What exactly is a major language? Afrikaans is not spoken by that many fewer people than Dutch. I can't see any reason for adding Flemish as it is not a standard language, unlike Afrikaans, Dutch and German or any reason for including French or Malay as they are not West Germanic languages and therefore not closely related as Afrikaans, Dutch and German are. The French and Malay influence on Afrikaans is pretty minimal when we get down into such basic vocabulary, it is virtually all Germanic at this level. Only the word 'baie' is of Malay origin and that is very much the exception.

Corrections[edit]

I am not sure what to think of this list as a native dutch speaker. The Dutch list seems incomplte and therefore suggests a greater difference between Dutch and Afrikaans than is warranted. I'll give it a go

Narrow: is also 'nauw' in dutch

  • Wife/husband: Dutch also knows the word 'gade' bit poetical, but certainly not strange to use
  • Bark: In dutch the word 'bast' is also used
  • To Vomit: 'kotsen' is a proper (be it somewhat rude) word in dutch
  • To hit: 'slaan' would be the first translation
  • To split: 'kloven' is a proper dutch translation if you are splitting wood
  • 121 to walk: Dutch knows the word 'wandelen' (to stroll) and I think the meaning is the same in afrikaans
  • 130 to squeeze: I seriously doubt if 'drukken' is the proper translation in Afrikaans. Dutch also knows 'drukken' (to push, to print, to defeacate)
  • 135 to push: drukken, duwen, stoten
  • 137 to tie: (vast)binden is the first translation in dutch
  • 143 to float: drijven is the first translation in dutch. 'zweven' is more 'to float on air'
  • 156 stone: I seriously doubt if 'klip' (Cliff) is the proper translation in Afrikaans. Dutch knows 'klip' as well for cliff
  • 159 earth: 'grond' is a proper translation in dutch
  • 163 wind (as in a breeze): dutch knows the word 'bries'
  • 187 rotten: 'rot' is fine, but 'verrot' as well, which is akin to Afrikaans 'vrot'
  • 189 straight: 'rechtuit' is also correct in dutch
  • 197 close: 'nabij' is also coorect in dutch

In answer to above:

For 'to squeeze', 'druk' is the correct Afrikaans verb, it can also mean 'to press' or 'to push' (as in to push a button, eg at a pedestrian crossin the sign might say 'Druk knoppie wag tot verkeer staan/Press button wait till traffic stops'). No Afrikaans verb ends in -en, that, I think, is a uniquely Dutch feature.

'Klip' is the correct Afrikaans word for 'stone', as in a single stone. The word 'steen' exists but that is more of a mass noun. 'Cliff' would be 'rots' in Afrikaans.

RFDO discussion: May 2015–June 2016[edit]

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Appendix:Afrikaans and Dutch Swadesh lists

This is a table with Swadesh lists of Afrikaans, Dutch and German. We already have:

Is it useful to have a separate table comparing these languages together? (slippery slope argument: When will we stop? Could Appendix:French and Italian Swadesh lists be created? Or Afrikaans, Dutch and German together is especially useful/interesting, keeping it apart from other combinations?) --Daniel 14:49, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

We do also have Appendix:Swadesh lists for Germanic languages and, for that matter, Appendix:Swadesh lists for Romance languages. I'm not sure how useful Swadesh lists for multiple languages are, since no one uses them for glottochronology anymore. They're not really helpful for language comparison purposes, so why bother having more than one language in a list? —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:37, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
Delete per Daniel Carrero. Doesn't even have the right name, it should be Appendix:Dutch, Afrikaans and German Swadesh lists. Before you know it, someone's added on Low German, Danish, Luxembourgish, etc. Renard Migrant (talk) 21:13, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

If no one uses Swadesh lists for multiple languages, perhaps all the cross-language lists should be deleted too? Or should they be kept? The ones listed at Template:Swadesh lists are: Afro-AsiaticAlgonquianAltaicAraucanianAustro-AsiaticAustralianAustronesianBalticBaltic-FinnicBantuCelticDené–YeniseianDravidianFormosanFrisianGermanicHmong-MienHokanIberianIndo-AryanIndo-IranianIndo-Iranian (extended)ItalianMayanMuskogeanNiger–CongoOto-MangueanPaleosiberianPenutianRomanceSino-TibetanSlavicSiouanTai–KadaiTibeto-BurmanTupi–GuaraniTurkicUralicUto-Aztecan --Daniel 08:03, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

For the record:
  • Delete the Dutch/Afrikaans/German appendix, for the reasons I stated above and also per Renard Migrant.
  • Keep the whole bunch of family Swadesh lists, I'm not nominating those for deletion, I was just asking. They seem useful enough. I don't see any harm in them aside from maybe comparetively more work to keep both versions consistent with additions/corrections/whatever. --Daniel 11:31, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
I didn't understand that bit of Angr's comments. I see no harm in keeping them for language families which are well enough defined that we know which languages should and shouldn't be in there. Renard Migrant (talk) 16:48, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
Keep, but remove German. Believe this list could be a good addition to [1]; a Germanic languages list would likely be too cluttered to allow an easy use of it. Morgengave (talk) 19:54, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Deleted --Daniel Carrero (talk) 06:02, 30 June 2016 (UTC)