Talk:既成の事実

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Possible SoP Japanese terms[edit]

女に化ける[edit]

Delete. --kc_kennylau (talk) 10:46, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Not idiomatic. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 13:23, 10 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

綿の実[edit]

Delete. --kc_kennylau (talk) 10:46, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. It means a cotton boll. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 13:23, 10 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, restored. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 13:04, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'd like to withdraw this. It seems like the word is more complex than I thought. It could mean cotton boll and cottonseed. Thanks for pointing it out, TAKASUGI Shinji. Whym (talk) 15:00, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

実らなかった努力[edit]

Add a metaphorical definition to 実る before deleting this. --kc_kennylau (talk) 10:46, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Whym (talk) 11:51, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. --kc_kennylau (talk) 12:46, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Not idiomatic. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 13:23, 10 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

熟れた果実[edit]

Delete. --kc_kennylau (talk) 10:46, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Not idiomatic. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 13:23, 10 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

無実の罪[edit]

Delete. --kc_kennylau (talk) 10:46, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Idiomatic. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 13:23, 10 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per TAKASUGI Shinji, whose authority on the idiomacity of Japanese words I trust completely. Taken character by character, this would seem to mean "no truth to the crime", which is not the same as identifying a charge (presumably a criminal charge or accusation) as false. Cheers! bd2412 T 17:31, 12 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

判断の尺度[edit]

All above are simply non-idiomatic phrases. Whym (talk) 10:33, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. --kc_kennylau (talk) 10:46, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Not idiomatic. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 13:23, 10 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

既成の事実[edit]

既成事実 is an established term, but this is not. Whym (talk) 10:33, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Create 既成 before deleting this. --kc_kennylau (talk) 10:46, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Whym (talk) 11:51, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. --kc_kennylau (talk) 12:46, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Not idiomatic. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 13:23, 10 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

世界最古の職業[edit]

Translation of the English idiom "world's oldest profession", not idiomatic as a term in Japanese. Whym (talk) 10:33, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I abstain my vote until further notice. --kc_kennylau (talk) 10:46, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Could be an RFV issue? Renard Migrant (talk) 10:51, 9 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Not idiomatic. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 13:23, 10 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted a bunch except for some for which there were keep votes. Voting keep for 世界最古の職業, even if it may be a translation. I think English "world's oldest profession" is also idiomatic. Undecided about 無実の罪. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 02:30, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I believe most Japanese have no idea what the world’s oldest profession is. As far as I know, it is used to explain the English concept. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 15:17, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
But this type of opinions seems quite common on the Japanese Web: 売春婦が世界最古の職業というネタが広く流布しているような気がする。 しかし、... (or similar), quoted or without quotes. It doesn't have to be known to MOST Japanese but to MANY, IMHO. It is a translated phrase for many languages, not sure where it originated. More importantly, it seems attestable in Japanese as uses, not mentions. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 14:24, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I might have said too assertively. Your example is quite ordinary, however. It means: "It seems a widespread story that the prostitution is the world's oldest profession, but…" Here, "世界最古の職業" doesn’t means the prostitution but literally means the oldest profession of the world. It is not idiomatic. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 02:14, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Isn’t it better to move it to RFV? — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 00:01, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree with you on idiomaticity of this term in Japanese but I just don't see it a very important term to spend too much time on it, as I read Japanese with difficulty. :) The few examples I've read seem to suggest that it's used not mentioned in Japanese, just like it is in other languages. I met a few Japanese, even living in Japan who live "in the West", reading only Western books, watching only Western movies and series, even if it's all in translation. For westernised Japanese what is idiomatic in English, is also idiomatic in Japanese. Just a thought. "World's oldest profession" is a common term, which is used in the world literature. Feel free to RFV. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 00:24, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Moved to RFD. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 08:09, 4 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Wyang (talk) 03:07, 5 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Closed as resolved. The terms for which there was consensus to delete have been deleted; the terms for which there was consensus to keep have been kept; one term has been sent to RfV. bd2412 T 13:41, 26 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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