Talk:bistro

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The Slavic origin of the French word "bistro" or "bistrot" is not established.

First occurence Ca 1884. Uncertain origin, maybe from the Poitiers region “bistraud”, that means “little servant”, which could have been used for the wine tradesman’s servant. Or from the form “Bistingo” (1845), from unknown origins. With respect to the adaptation from Russian “Byistro” (“quick”) coming from the Cossacks asking for a drink in Paris in 1814, it’s a pure fantasy in the absence of any trace of use of this word at this time, or shortly after. The most probable origin links the word to “bistouille”.

Current editions of French dictionaries express strong doubts about the Slavic etymology. Refer to the Robert or Larousse editions. — This unsigned comment was added by 86.193.253.149 (talk).

True. I'll amend the etymology accordingly. Widsith 08:24, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Some links to discussions of the etymology:
I've also updated the etymology to indicate that the Slavic hypothesis is not attested.
Nbarth 04:19, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't the spelling of the Russian word wrong? (Going by the pronunciation guide it should be t instead of m.) Charlie McKeon July 6, 2009.

Actually, it's the Cyrillic equivalent of "t", and that is what's encoded. The "m" you've seeing is the italicized/cursive form of that letter. Just as some English letters change form when written in italics, some Cyrillic letters do that as well. --EncycloPetey 14:20, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"European-style"[edit]

I was about to add a Chinese translation, and then realised, hang on, "bistro" doesn't exclusively mean a "European-style" restaurant - in Australia, at least, a bistro could be anything really - even non-European food might be served! Tooironic 14:44, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]


A french user's opinion[edit]

1/Here we cherish the slavic origin. The fact that a learned philologue mentionned the word 70 years after it was created and used in the french street argot (= slang) is for us irrevelant. I have known in the late '60 an old (but fully-witted) lady born in 1870 in Paris who told me several times that she heard her grand-mother say that the Russians in Paris were harassing, not only for waiters, but also for every skirt-bearer in sight, and that bistro was their favorite word (and I don't think she was mistaking Cossacks for Wehrmacht troops...). By the way , my Larousse VI tomes does not mention, or infirm, the slavic origin...

2/Here a bistrot is also the owner of the bar, and we currently say "aller au bistrot du coin" : it is at the street corner, and its proximity enhances its unpretentiousness. Pierre Perret is a French author-singer who uses the conviviality of the bistro atmosphere in his funny and touching songs. We often use an affectionate derivation of bistro : "bistroquet" , which has given birth to "troquet", a word used almost as often as bistrot. But "mastroquet" is for an ugly and squalid eating place, or for its hideous and dirty owner...

3/ "Bistrouille" is coffee + brandy only in the north of France. Everywhere else (cf Larousse I/VI, p. 719) it is an awfull and dangerous mixture of something colored, water, maybe sugar, and spirits. Lately, we have seen some bistrouille scandals : ethyl-glycol ("liquide anti-gel" used to prevent water engine-coolers from bursting in winter) was even added for extra strength by some gougnafiers (vile crooks)... Arapaima 09:23, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Another French user's opinion[edit]

I am the one who wrote the first comment above in 2007 (but I did not sign): "The Slavic origin (...) is not established (...) Refer to the Robert or Larousse editions". While I appreciate the reference made to one lady born in the 19th century, I'd like to emphasize that hersay and gossips don't make a thorough etymology analysis. All recent (after 1990) French dictionaries reject the Slavic origin. There are plenty of fanciful etymologies these days, for many words, in many languages. The fact that their stories sound nice and entertaining should not mislead us. Linguists and philologs should enlighten us ; not the street. Serendipe 21:15, 21 November 2009 (CET)

An Etymological Theory[edit]

The current usage of bistraud in the Angevin dialects is mostly limited to a pastoral context, i.e. "shepherd, herder" etc. This would appear to be a derivation from biste, a regional word for "goat", with an agent suffix added to denote ownership or occupation. I propose that this comes from Old French beste, a word which incidentally survives unchanged in usage or spelling among the Normandoise. This derives from Latin bestia, which had a variety of meanings from "wild animal" to "beast of burden". Many rural terms in French ultimately derive from Latin words which once had far broader implications- for example, pondre (to lay an egg), derives from Latin pendere (to weigh or hang). This same word produced French penser (to think) via its frequentative pensare and poise via its past participle pensus. In the same way, bestia may have retained its general meaning of "animal" in some French dialects while undergoing a semantic narrowing in Angevin.

French derivation dubious[edit]

Please, explain, why would a French word be respelled with a final o replacing ot or aud. Is a final -o common for French spelling at all? Why would syllables, such as -aud or -ot, be changed to -o in bistro? And why words, such as argot and pataud, remained unchanged? Also, the -st- consonant cluster is uncommon for French words. Consider Lat. festus and Fr. fête. --- 194.28.238.3

apparently, a few other words for buildings do end in a bare -o: hosto and resto, and at least the first is earlier attested with the more French-like spelling hosteau. —Soap— 13:38, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

French section, etymology[edit]

Are there any sources of the rejection of folk etymology? The explanation "In Russia restaurants are not traditionally called bistros, and the concept of the fast-serving restaurant as used in Russian is seen as a French import, unrelated to the supposed Russian origin." is somehow out of the concept of proposed folk etymology. --Xoristzatziki (talk) 04:02, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The folk etymology is that it comes from Russian бы́стро (býstro, “fast, quickly”). In Russia the word бистро́ (bistró) was re-borrowed from French (if it was borrowed from Russian in the first place). This word "бистро" is only used in reference to a French type of restaurant. See restaurant, cafe, etc. for translations of other words. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 04:15, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The Russian derivation, to me, makes the most sense. The others appear to be strained attempts at favouring a native origin (go figger :\ ) Leasnam (talk) 04:24, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Leasnam You can start a discussion at Wiktionary:Etymology_scriptorium/2016/January if you think there is something to it. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 04:36, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The folk etymology (the way it is written in the lemma) says that the French word name came from the Russian word (for "hurry") heard in that king of restaurants at the time being and not that the French word is the Russian word for that kind of restaurants. Please either insert sources that support the rejection (if there are any) or remove it. --Xoristzatziki (talk) 05:05, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the sentence that was italicized above. I thought I'd been on this talk page before, in fact, but maybe it was a tea room discussion or some other page. —Soap— 20:15, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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