Talk:identical

Meaning of "Exactly equivalent to; bearing full likeness"

Does the first definition mean equal by reference, or equal by value? Put differently, does it mean "the same instance" or "a different instance looking exactly the same"? I understand "bearing full likeness" as the latter meaning. --Daniel Polansky 15:09, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Requests for verification - kept

Kept. See archived discussion of January 2009. 07:07, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Sense for selfsame

I have created a dedicated sense for "selfsame". I have found quotations attesting this sense of "identical". The other sense "having exactly the same characteristics" seems to be much more common use of "identical", at least when applied to people and things as contrasted to qualities and magnitudes (such as temperature). The sense of "selfsame" is sometimes known as "numerically identical" while the sense of "having exactly the same characteristics" is sometimes known as "qualitatively identical". Which of the senses applies to qualities and magnitudes is unclear: two temperatures are hardly ever exactly equal; when two temperatures are rather precisely equal, they, being qualities, are not such that "they have precisely same characteristics", unless temperature is taken to have magnitude as one of its characteristics: chair-->temperature-->magnitude = 20 °C; when the model is chair-->temperature = 20 °C, temperature does not have any further qualities or characteristics. I have adjusted synonyms accordingly: selfsame is not a synonym of qualitatively identical. --Dan Polansky 13:11, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Dictionaries: This distinction between the two senses of "identical" (selfsame vs indistinguishable) can be found in Merriam-Webster Online, WordNet, and AHD. The distinction is missing in Encarta. Webster 1913 curiously only has "selfsame". Century 1911 seems to have the two senses combined into one: "Being the same; absolutely indistinguishable; distinguishable only as points of veiw of that which is one in its own being: also used loosely to express the fact that two or more things compared are the same in the particulars considered, or differ in no essential point". --Dan Polansky 13:20, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Order of definitions: I have placed the "indistinguishable" sense as the first one, while the "selfsame" sense as the second one. When searching for quotations, it was fairly hard for me to find quotations attesting the sense "selfsame"; the sense "indistinguishable" seems more common. --Dan Polansky 13:24, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Sense for identical in regard

I have added a sense for "identical in regard", but I am far from sure a dedicated sense was needed. Maybe it is just some generic grammar of "<adjective> in <regard>", which constrains the adjective to that regard. --Dan Polansky 18:01, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Etymology

Is it correct (identic + -al)? Seems a bit odd to add a suffix to create a new adjective from an existing adjective of the same meaning. Equinox ◑ 22:28, 29 March 2017 (UTC)