Talk:one and one's

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Deletion debate[edit]

The following information has failed Wiktionary's deletion process.

It should not be re-entered without careful consideration.

Catch-all entry for "you and your (bad temper)", "those kids and their (stupid dog)", etc. Should be deleted because it isn't the form that is used ("one and one's" probably isn't attestable at all); compare those entries we used to have like I'll see you X and raise you Y, which failed RFD. Equinox ◑ 21:10, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'd love to be able to keep these, but not in principal namespace. Move to Appendix:Snowclones/X and X's Y. DCDuring TALK 21:52, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What DCDuring said. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:55, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
BTW, I'll see you and raise you. DCDuring TALK 21:57, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete In almost all the citations given, the expression of frustration is clearly not in the construction "X and X's whatever". It's in the "oh" ("A word to precede an offhand or annoyed remark, an invocation or address"), the "that" (although we don't currently have the right sense, there's also a dismissive use of the word, as in the northern England expression "that London") and the exclamation mark (or, in speech, the intonation). "Oh, that infernal Irishman and his pack of hell-hounds!" can totally be broken down into parts - you could cut the "and his pack of hell-hounds" and the sentence would still be grammatical and still express the speaker's anger at the Irishman. No-one would ever try to decode that sentence by looking up "one and one's". The entry is useless (worse than useless, it's wrong. "one and one's" is not an expression of frustration. No-one yells "one and one's". Something like "A construction to express anger or frustration at a person's behaviour" be closer). Smurrayinchester (talk) 21:58, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Many of the entries in Category:English interjections are wrong in similar ways: the emotion is not inherent in the expression or not in the entire expression. I agree no one except fans of snowclones or of Construction grammar would look this up. It seems to be used to frame an event or topic to be discussed or to pass judgement on it. Does it have to be a negative framing or judgment? It could certainly me just mildly negative: "You and your silly word games." DCDuring TALK 22:35, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note also that "one and one's" isn't actually broad enough to capture all formulations of this expression. For example, the expression can appear as "you and those" or "you with your" instead of "you and your". And the "someone" needn't even be a person, e.g. "Stupid London and its damn weather." In addition, it's not hard to find uses of the "one and one's" interjection that aren't expressing anything like exasperation or frustration. This search has a few examples. So I'm not sure there's really any substance here. By the time you get done broadening the form of the entry to capture all possible formulations and broadening the definition to encompass all the meanings it takes on, there would be nothing left. Delete. —Caesura(t) 23:26, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Deleted. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:44, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]


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