Frankish vowel shifts

Fragment of a discussion from User talk:Rua
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It's not the best example of PGm. /eu/ but it's a start: *thūta.

00:45, 26 November 2012

Frankish/Old Dutch th becomes d in (Middle) Dutch, so that can't be right. And Germanic eu becomes ie, not ū or ui, so that can't be right either.

00:49, 26 November 2012

I'm going off the etymology from the tuyau entry.

00:55, 26 November 2012

I don't think that's right, either. Germanic *þeutōn would give *thiota in Old Dutch and *diozza in OHG, and the modern words would have been *diet(e) and *Dieß(e). Which is very different from the actually attested words. Dutch tuit can only go back to Germanic *tūt- or *tiuti-/tiutija-.

00:59, 26 November 2012

He's a better one: *fliukka.

01:37, 26 November 2012

I can't actually find any sources about that. I've found vlieke in a Middle Dutch dictionary, but that says it was borrowed from French rather than the other way around. The combination of -iu- and -kk- also bothers me. Normally -kk- is formed from -k- followed by -j- through gemination, but that only applies to light syllables and the -iu- makes it heavy. So it seems that the Germanic form must have been *fliukkijōn. I have no idea how that could have become the Middle Dutch word, though; the -kk- should have been preserved and -iu- normally becomes -u- in Middle Dutch, only -ie- in a few dialects. So maybe it was really *fliukijōn or even *fleukōn.

In any case, I don't think the evidence for this reconstruction is strong enough to warrant an entry. I'd prefer it be deleted.

01:52, 26 November 2012

You're right, looks like Du. vliek is actually a reconstruction from OFr., but it does have obvious Frankish origins, with many cognates, so it shouldn't be outlandish to reconstruct.

02:25, 26 November 2012