User talk:Amir Hamzah 2008

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Again, welcome! -- Cirt (talk) 05:13, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi, just a quick question: does both konsonan and vokal mean 'vowel'? You used the former as a translation of "consonant", so I guess it was a cut&paste error, but as I don't know the language I don't want to get in and change things just because they surprised me. \Mike (talk) 13:00, 13 April 2012 (UTC)


Hello! I saw that you know about Proto-Malayo-Polynesian and I was wondering if you could go through Category:Proto-Polynesian language and add Proto-Malayo-Polynesian to the etymologies. This helps us show the connection between Polynesian terms and related terms in important languages like Malay and Indonesian. For example, I think that the Proto-Polynesian numbers need fixing in that regard. Thanks! --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 15:34, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Malay translations[edit]


Thanks for your contributions. Please add basic Malay words - basic verbs, adjectives, nouns, adverbs, they are still missing, if you can. (e.g. to go doesn't have a Malay translation - pergi?)--Anatoli (обсудить) 01:42, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Todo/proto problems[edit]

Just to know, the latest ones are almost entirely your edits. Can I request you check what language you are using inside {{proto}} a little more carefully, please? Mglovesfun (talk) 20:50, 7 June 2012 (UTC)


Please do not add long lists of etymologies and comparisons to entries that already have an etymology to a proto-form. Instead, add all that to the 'Etymology' section of the proto-form's page in the appendix (except for the parts which are already in the 'Descendants' section). Thanks! --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 16:33, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi. Please do not assume that other languages always borrowed Malay words via English. I'm talking about your edits to սագո (sago), օրանգուտան (ōrangutan), Կուալա Լումպուր (Kuala Lumpur). All of those were probably borrowed via Russian. And in case of "orangutan", Russian borrowed it from French, not English. --Vahag (talk) 09:21, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Can you fix vaka#Rotuman's etymology as well? Thanks! --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 06:19, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 06:27, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Please don't add tons of specific senses, like you did at taʻu, unless you can find supporting citations for each sense. Othrwise, just leave the definitions simple. Thanks --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 06:31, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Category:Malay language[edit]

Doesn't list Arabic as a script; should it? Mglovesfun (talk) 11:47, 26 July 2012 (UTC)


The Ilocano section is such as mix of {{ilo}} and {{sas}} I can't work out which it's meant to be; can you? Mglovesfun (talk) 18:58, 27 July 2012 (UTC)


I read that in Malay this means "frizzy (of hair)". Is that true? If so, can you create the entry? Thanks! --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 18:04, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

bahasa Kejermanan[edit]

Did you want this deleted? if so, why? If that is the case, you should have put {{d|<reason>}} on the page. User: PalkiaX50 talk to meh 23:16, 7 August 2012 (UTC)


Needs etymology to Proto-Malayo-Polynesian and Proto-Austronesian. Thanks! --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 00:21, 11 August 2012 (UTC)


I can't work out what you're trying to do here. If it's Malaysian Chinese, that's Chinese used in Malaysia so it shouldn't be under the ==Malay== header but a Chinese one. I've deleted {{Malaysian Chinese}} as unnecessary, we have {{Malaysia}} and {{China}}, just use them with lang=ms. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:00, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

I meant Malay used by Chinese in Malaysia. Amir Hamzah 2008 (talk) 10:08, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
Right, this may require a bit of thought. Maybe in fact you should just say that then? {{context|used by Chinese expats}}. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:12, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
MG, you don't get it. It's not expats. There's a distinct Chinese community in Malaysia that have lived there, often for generations, and have certain dialectal differences (this is also true to an extent in Singapore, although there are more Chinese than Malays there, and Singlish takes hold). I think that {{Chinese Malay}} is the best option. --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 15:38, 16 August 2012 (UTC)


Can you please tell me your source for this? We just need proof that it's real. Thanks! --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 13:37, 28 August 2012 (UTC) Amir Hamzah 2008 (talk) 13:43, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Thank you! --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 19:55, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

Thank you

I hereby give you this barnstar in recognition of your tireless, excellent work around here, especially with Malayo-Polynesian etymologies. Keep it up! --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:22, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

ء vs ئ[edit]

Hi, I don't know Malay, but generally in Arabic script ء shouldn't be used in the middle of the word, so اءير (and similar words) should be اࢨر, I think. --Z 06:45, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

It is correct. ء in between vowels are to avoid vowels to be considered as diphthongs or ي (i) to be considered as a consonant (y) and و (u) to be considered as a consonant (w). Example:
  1. لاين is layan (to serve (customer)) but لاءين is lain (different) (not a diphthong).
  2. راي is raya (big, great) but راءي is rai (celebrate) (not a diphthong).
  3. لاوق is lawak (funny) but لاءوق is lauk (foods accompanying rice) (not a diphthong).

Hello. I guess hamza must be on the next letter, doesn't it? Because I see you put hamza in superscript in title. Now Unicode has ؤ (waw with hamza above) and (yeh with 2 dots and hamza above). Let's use them instead. Additionally, I am going to make all Jawi entries to be soft redirects (a short message point to Rumi entries) as it will reduce duplications. --Octahedron80 (talk) 09:51, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

The ء is commonly written at like a superscript but it is not above the letter ي or و but rather between ا and ي or و. An example is provided here: Amir Hamzah 2008 (talk) 10:13, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
I found this one ٴ (U+0674 spacing high hamza). Can I use this instead? Compare اءير and اٴير --Octahedron80 (talk) 10:06, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
Although handwritings commonly put ء high but next to the ا, I might say that it is more practical to use ء (U+0621) in computer-encoded transcription. The display using U+0674 might be particularly incorrect for words such as keairan (ke- + air + -an), کأءيرن ( Amir Hamzah 2008 (talk) 10:13, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
So. I will revert my mistake back. Thanks for your help. --Octahedron80 (talk) 10:16, 23 December 2016 (UTC)


Could you please create this English page, and add the Malay translation as well? Thank you! --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 05:46, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Er, Rumi too, please. Thank you so much! --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 06:03, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
Terima kasih! --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 06:11, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletions[edit]

Hello, please do not replace the content of a template with {{d}} while the template is still used, as it creates an awful mess. In this case, wouldn't it be better to nominate the templates for deletion and let other people have a say? Use <noinclude>{{rfd}}</noinclude>, the noinclude bit stops the entries using the templates also being nominated for deletion. Mglovesfun (talk) 08:05, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Template:list:coffees/ms/Latn, Template:list:coffees/ms/Arab[edit]

These list templates that you created appear to be lists of the days of the week, but they are titled "coffees". Did you mean to create them at Template:list:days of the week/ms/Latn and Template:list:days of the week/ms/Arab? --Yair rand (talk) 05:18, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

entry for terimah kasih[edit]


I don't know why you did with the entry what you did but please check the entry after my edit for correctness of the translation. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 07:20, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Regarding your nomination for deletion I also asked a question here. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 07:32, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Please move, don't delete[edit]

If a entry exists with a wrong title please

  • do not simply copy its content to a new lemma and replace the content of the old lemma by {{d}}
  • but rather move the old entry to the new title, using the Move tab at the top of the page.

I am referring to kotew/kotou, beley/belei and the like. Thank you. -- Gauss (talk) 06:50, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Malay and Indonesian[edit]

I notice that you've been very active adding Malay entries, and seem to be very knowledgeable about it (in fact, you're now probably our main editor of Malay and related languages), so that's why I come to you with this question. How would you feel about merging our Malay (code: ms) and Indonesian (code: id) entries? They would then all appear under the header "Malay", but individual words or forms could be identified specifically as Malaysian, Indonesian, or something else via context templates. This would reduce content duplication and allow us to better illustrate both the similarities and differences of the Indonesian and Malaysian standards. – Krun (talk) 09:17, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Does this mean that the other Malay codes such as code: meo (Kedah Malay), code: kxd (Bruneian Malay), code: min (Minangkabau Malay) and other Malay variants should come under Malay like other English variants? Actually, according to Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka (The Institute of Language and Literature)-published dictionary for Malay, the entry of the variants are under Malay with a unified spelling system. Indonesian-only entries are also included as well as for Bruneian and Dutch Indonesian (Malay spoken in Netherlands). Merging it would simplify a lot. If it would be like Serbo-Croatian then I might agree. Amir Hamzah 2008 (talk) 11:13, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
I would support this, but I think the header should be just ==Malay==. I also think that this requires a vote. By the way, how will the merger happen technically speaking? Won't etymologies be a mess? (For example, see WT:Etymology scriptorium/matahari, which is where I first noticed this issue). —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 19:11, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
RE: “I think the header should be just ==Malay==”: That's exactly what we were talking about. ;-) – Krun (talk) 21:46, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
RE: etymologies: I think they are a mess, but wouldn't be if the entries were merged. – Krun (talk) 21:49, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
RE: ==Malay==: Obviously. I was responded to Amir's bringing up of Serbo-Croatian. I would hate it if we settled on something ugly like ==Malayo-Indonesian==. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 22:50, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
RE: etymologies: But how will we deal with the fact that many words came from the Indonesian dialect of Malay? Don't we want to distinguish? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 22:50, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
I don't think we really have to. If the term exists in both standards it may be difficult to determine exactly where it came from anyway. If a term is regional/only in one of the standards, that can also be indicated in its own entry (as per US/UK/etc. English). This can of course also be mentioned in etymology sections in cases where it may be useful. – Krun (talk) 20:02, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
RE: dialects/variants: most, if not all of them, should probably be under the Malay header. That dictionary you mentioned could be a good model to base that on. Do you know which varieties it includes (you can compare it with the list at Ethnologue). And yes, this would be very similar to what we are already doing with Serbo-Croatian. It also has extra scripts (Cyrillic in Serbia is not so much unlike Jawi in Malaysia) and non-standard varieties (Kajkavian, Čakavian, Torlak, etc.), which are dealt with in a relatively simple way. – Krun (talk) 21:46, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
RE: dialects: I don't know. It's really a case-by-case situation. I think Kedah Malay, for example, can be pretty different (but I'll leave it to Amir to decided, since he knows best). —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 22:50, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
It is of course possible to continue to cover some varieties separately; I suppose it depends mostly on what seems more practical (especially with regard to content duplication, etymologies, etc.). – Krun (talk) 20:02, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
We need to have a broader consensus, if you guys want to merge Malay and Indonesian. Since Indonesian is a standardised register of (Classical) Malay, there may be enough supporters of this. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 23:08, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
Of course. If this is to be done, it would be best to have a vote on this to make the practice official policy. I just thought it best to first discuss it with our (probably) most knowledgeable Malay editor. – Krun (talk) 20:02, 9 October 2012 (UTC)


I am trying to improve the quality of our entries for natural kinds, like animals. Translations are an important part of that. I understand that tupai is the pen-tailed treeshrew (picture) or tree shrew (similar but different genus). Is it really also the translation of squirrel? If that is what dictionaries show, so be it. Thanks in advance. DCDuring TALK 04:00, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

See also northern tree shrew. DCDuring TALK 04:27, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
All I know is that
I didn't mean for you to work that hard, but thanks! As you can see, I have a few taxonomic entries to add. The northern tree shrew is on a list of 16 species getting their genome sequenced as part of some major project and merits immediate special attention. Its relatives will also get some special attention after I have all of the sixteen. DCDuring TALK 13:45, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Votes/2012-12/Unified Malay[edit]

I have created this vote, which will run in a week, to unify Malay, Indonesian, and a few other lects together like Serbo-Croatian. Thanks! —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 20:03, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

daun salam[edit]

I notice that we have this in the translations for bay leaf. The true daun salam (Syzgium polyanthum) is different from the true bay leaf (Laurus nobilis)- they're completely different plants, and apparently the flavors are quite different, as well. My question is: what is the Malay term for the true (Mediterranean) bay leaf? I know that Malay Wikipedia's article for w:ms:Daun salam says it's Laurus nobilis, but that seems to be a mistake, since the principal meaning of daun salam is Syzgium polyanthum (perhaps they just translated the English Wikipedia article). Is the Mediterranean bay leaf also referred to as Daun salam in sources that would know the botanical difference? Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 14:11, 22 April 2013 (UTC)


An anon changed the header from ==Malay== to ==Indonesian==, with the edit summary "Pabrik" is an Indonesian word, derived from Dutch. In Malay, they say "kilang" and not "pabrik". Note that Malay doesn't normally borrow words from Dutch.

I've reverted for now, and added {{attention}} (both {{attention|ms}} and {{attention|id}}). Could you take a look?

Thanks in advance!
RuakhTALK 02:28, 12 January 2014 (UTC)


Dear Amir, I saw that you began to make entries for the Rungus language. I myself spoke Rungus in the first 10 years of my life. And I just would like to know wether you aim to continue this project. In this case I can over you some help to have a systematic presentation of the Rungus language in the victionary. This would be a interesting project, due to the high developed language features of Rungus.

I would be happy to hear from you.

Best wishes Michael —This unsigned comment was added by Mifo (talkcontribs) at 13:16, 7 March 2014 (UTC).

I don's speak the language but I refer to as prepared in the "Bahasa Sukuan v2.0" section. Amir Hamzah 2008 (talk) 13:48, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
I will give you our standard welcome template on your talk page and some other information. I hope you can contribute either with Amir or by yourself: as a native speaker in a less-documented language, you are a valuable resource. Chuck Entz (talk) 18:42, 7 March 2014 (UTC)


Hi Amir! A friend of mine from de.wikt was asking for Malay's declension. I was wondering if Malay should have a declension (possessive form). Although its not really used often.

  • For Jawi script words
  • For Rumi script words

Do you think this is necessary? --Malaysiaboy (talk) 11:23, 8 November 2014 (UTC)


Having problem with beras. PRPM convert it to برءس (, while I found برس (be.ras) else where. Which one is right? --Octahedron80 (talk) 12:34, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

beras should be read as /bəras/, not /bər(ʔ)as/ because it is not ber- + *as. The correct spelling is برس. I have seen entries on PRPM's results as misspelling, probably typo or respelled manually incorrectly, but overall it's reliable. Derived forms such as berberas give out بربرس. Amir Hamzah 2008 (talk) 12:54, 23 December 2016 (UTC)


Hello, I'm going to add the entries on (almost) each of Western Pacific storm names to Thai Wiktionary. I'd like to ask if you could help me with the IPA transcription for these ten Malay words: cempaka, jelawat, mawar, melor, meranti, merbok, nangka, rumbia, rusa, sepat. --Potapt (talk) 23:29, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

cempaka /t͡ʃəmpaka/, jelawat /d͡ʒəlawat/, mawar /mawar/, melor (melur) /məlur/, meranti /məranti/, merbok (merbuk) /mərbuʔ/, nangka /naŋka/, rumbia /rumbia/, rusa /rusa/, sepat /səpat/. Amir Hamzah 2008 (talk) 23:48, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
What is the difference between melor and melur; and between merbok and merbuk? Which ones are standard or recommended forms? --Potapt (talk) 01:59, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
Those are basically spelling patterns, not different words where /-ə-u-/ may phonetically be realized in the range of [-ə-u-~-ə-ʊ-~-ə-o-] applicable on words considered native, spelled in standard as -e-u- and -e-o- for /-e-e-/ unless fixed spelling is already used in proper names. The same goes for [-ə-i-~-ə-ɪ-~-ə-e-]. Amir Hamzah 2008 (talk) 02:24, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
Last question, are /t͡ʃəmpakə/, /naŋkə/, /rumbiə/ and /rusə/ considered standard pronunciations? --Potapt (talk) 02:18, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
I suppose that [-ə] is the common realization for the prescribe /-a/, even prescribed by Dewan Bahasa and Pustaka, marked by "a", as to differentiate the ending -e as is words such as -isme /-ismə/ ("-ism"). Amir Hamzah 2008 (talk) 02:24, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
OK. Thank you very much. --Potapt (talk) 02:27, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Taxonomy and Pronunciation[edit]

Hello again. I saw you answered the questions about the taxonomy before, so I'd like to ask if you could clarify the meanings of these words:

  • cempaka - On Malay Wikipedia, Pokok Cempaka is Magnolia spp., but Bunga cempaka is Michelia champaca (synonym: Magnolia champaca). Does this mean that the word cempaka can refer to both the genus Magnolia and the species M. champaca?
  • merbuk - Is it a generic term for all the doves in Geopelia spp., or is it a common name only for Geopelia striata? On Malay Wikipedia, both Burung Merbok and Burung Merbuk Balam are linked to the article zebra dove (G. striata) on English Wikipedia.
  • nuri - Is it a generic term for all types of parrots and lorries, or is it a common name for a specific genus or species? According to this page, nuri means 'blue crowned parroquet', while defines the word as 'parrot; lory. Specifically of Lorius spp., but used of all parrots'. (In Thai, the birds in Lorius spp. are generally called nori. I suppose it's derived from nuri in Malay.)
  • tapah - defines the word as 'generic term for Wallago spp.', but the article Ikan Tapah on Malay Wikipedia, while showing a picture of Wallagonia leerii, is linked to the species Wallago attu on English Wikipedia. Which one should be the most accurate meaning of tapah?

and the pronunciation of this name:

  • Malaysia - Its article on English Wikipedia gives the pronunciation [məlejsiə], but on Wiktionary the name is transcribed /malai̯sia, –siə/. Which one is the standard pronunciation? --Potapt (talk) 17:18, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
There has been some inconsistencies when it comes to identifying the exact match of words for use in taxonomy. It is even reflected in different editions of dictionaries. Eg. serigala, now match with Canis lupus, "wolf" (in the 4th edition of Kamus Dewan), previously with Canis rutilans, "jackal" (cognate with serigala) (in the 2nd edition of Kamus Dewan and in the 4th edition of (Kamus Besar Bahasa Indonesia Pusat Bahasa (KBBI)). While I'm not very familiar in specifying taxa unless popularized such as serigala as "wolf" as mentioned, I do refer to dictionaries. It is also possible that publications may give different connection between words and taxa.
  • cempaka has been defined loosely in both KD and KBBI, thus making the usage of attributive words more necessary to be more exact. KD (4) matches cempaka with a) Gardenia spp.; b) Michelia champaca; and c) Plumeria spp..
    • KD (4) has some entries:
      • cempaka biru ("blue cempaka") = kemboja = bunga kemboja ("kemboja flower") = pokok kubur ("grave tree") - Plumeria acuminata
      • cempaka hutan ("forest cempaka")
        • a) Gardenia griffithii
        • b) = akar cempaka kuning = bunga akar kuning - Allamanda cathartica
    • KBBI (4) has some entries, with cepaka redirected to cempaka:
      • cempaka ambon ("Ambonese cempaka") - Michelia figo
      • cempaka dadu = cempaka kuning - Michelia champaca
      • cempaka gading = cempaka putih - Michelia alba
      • cempaka gondok - Talauma candolli
      • cempaka gunung - Talauma rumphii
      • cempaka mulia = cempaka kamboja - Plumiera acuminata
    • The genus Magnolia however has a more fixed word registered in KD, ie. magnolia. Michelia champaca is however matched to cempaka.
  • merbuk also has multiple definitions in KD while KBBI gives = ketitir = perkutut - Geopelia striata. However, in KD, Geopelia striata is found to define merbuk, 'merbuk aman, balam, merbuk balam, and tekukur merbuk but with discrepancies.
  • nuri and lori exist in both KD and KBBI but both do not define any genus or species for nuri allowing specific definitions to be made when given another modifying word.
  • tapah or tapa has been matched to a member of the genus Wallago and no match to Wallagonia.
  • Because of the nature of the spelling Malaysia which is not actually based on the Malay spelling, there may be different interpretations of how the pronunciation should be. KD prepared [ma.lé.sia] /malesia/ but it also is common to hear variations in realizing the word even mimicking English: [ma-~mə- -le-~-laj-~-lej- -sia~-siə~-ʃa-ʃə].
This is as far as I can think of to explain, hopefully, adequate enough. Amir Hamzah 2008 (talk) 03:01, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
Thank you very much for your detailed explanations. These help me understand a lot more now. --Potapt (talk) 15:37, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Origin of Tagalog palakol, Malagasy faikona[edit]


I see that you are our resident Malayo-Polynesian expert, do you know if these words (either of them) go back to some earlier reconstructed etymon? The reason why I ask is because they remind me of Proto-Tungusic *palụka (hammer) and possible cognates mentioned thereunder. Crom daba (talk) 21:09, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

I'd like to firstly say that I'm not an expert. While I couldn't find much on Malagasy faikona, Tagalog palakol does seem to be more Philippine-exclusive but I couldn't find further connection. Amir Hamzah 2008 (talk) 03:07, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
Thanks anyway. Crom daba (talk) 10:58, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Pertanyaan yang menarik[edit]

Salam Amir Hamzah! Aku orang Indonesia-Australia yang belajar bahasa Indonesia. Aku hanya ingin tahu apa pendapat anda tentang mengalihkan kata-kata bahasa Indonesia dan bahasa Melayu dengan "bahasa" dan "orang" ke akar kata? Misalnya, "bahasa Melayu" bisa dialihkan ke "Melayu". Aku juga belajar bahasa Indonesia, jadi jangan mempercayai tata bahasa aku juga. TatCoolBoy (talk) 05:09, 7 May 2017 (UTC)