User talk:Cinemantique

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Welcome[edit]

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Again, welcome! --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 12:32, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

братина[edit]

  • @Atitarev, будь добр, проверь перевод здесь.--Cinemantique (talk) 07:38, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
    Я попробовал, но я сам не уверен. Слово «братина» я транслитерировал в переводе, так как речь идет о специфическом историческом русском предмете. @Stephen G. Brown, привет, Стивен, что ты думаешь по поводу перевода на английский? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 12:14, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
    Привет, Анатолий. А по-моему, перевод отличный. —Stephen (Talk) 12:42, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
    Спасибо и благодарю за поправку, конечно лучше "represented", а не "presented". :)
  • Большое спасибо!--Cinemantique (talk) 15:10, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

By the way[edit]

Any entries with Category:Russian spellings with е instead of ё is strictly "alternative form". --KoreanQuoter (talk) 06:35, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

And of course, I sort of don't like making redirects. Yeah..... --KoreanQuoter (talk) 06:43, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Okay, I've just noticed that someone makes redirects.--Cinemantique (talk) 06:48, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

And thank you for the corrections. Much helpful, приятель. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 06:49, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

I noticed that осознаю has two forms. This was my mistake in осознаем. --06:51, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
I think "What links here" can help sometimes. Or this source.--Cinemantique (talk) 07:01, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
I don't have a strong opinion about "with е instead of ё" entries but the problem starts when someone decides to remove manual transliterations or add erroneous stress marks, e.g. "самоле́т" (!) (since all Russian terms need a stress), which is equally wrong but this happens every now and again. That's why hard redirects are probably better after all. Our transliteration rules are not accepted by 100% of editors, it's an ongoing battle. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 07:52, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

арендовать[edit]

Нежелательно доводить этимологию так далеко. Это ведёт к дубликации и рассинхрону. Мы всё ещё спорим, где надо обрывать цепь, но обычно это делается после первого заимствования. Т.е. в данном случае этимология должна быть доведена до польского arendować и продолжена на польской странице. Когда страница ещё не создана, можно продолжить до первого синего слова. В любом случае, категоризация этого слова в Category:Russian terms derived from Proto-Indo-European нежелательна во избежание контаминации с исконными рефлексами ПИЕ в русском. --Vahag (talk) 15:04, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

  • Благодарю за замечание. Просто здесь я прочёл: «The etymology should give the full origin of the word, as far back as is known. —CodeCat 20:07, 4 July 2015 (UTC)». —This unsigned comment was added by Cinemantique (talkcontribs).
    • Не слушайте КодКат. У них идиосинкратический взгляд. --Vahag (talk) 15:17, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

Дзауджикау[edit]

Думаю, что МФА для Дза̀уджика́у (Dzàudžikáu) сгенерировано правильно - [d] ассимилируется с [z], но [z] остается и получается [d͡zz]. Чистое [d͡z] встречается в словах плацдарм, Потсдам, но "под забором" будет с [d͡zz]. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 08:50, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

A question[edit]

What is the infinitive form of обязуюсь? --KoreanQuoter (talk) 12:46, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

анти-отделенчеств[edit]

Greetings, I just moved анти-отделенчество from RFD to RFV, since RFV is where we deal with terms that probably don't exist. Thank you for your nomination, and I hope you don't mind my moving. --Dan Polansky (talk) 19:28, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Please do not change Russian declension templates, thanks[edit]

@Atitarev, Wikitiki89 This is User:Benwing. I notice you've made numerous changes over the last day or so where you're changing uses of {{ru-noun-table}} to Vitalik's competing {{ru-decl-noun-z}}. Please do not do this. It is needlessly antagonistic and disruptive, has no consensus and just adds chaos to a system I tried hard to regularize. The tables were fine before and should stay the way they are. There should be one and only one way to do things, and you need to establish consensus before you unilaterally start making a switch like this. Given that Vitalik's system is new whereas Wikitiki's module has been around for awhile, the onus is on him and you to justify why this change is useful. Benwing2 (talk) 20:28, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Nobody used Wikitiki's template except himself. I see no consensus on the action you did. You must establish consensus before mass edits.--Cinemantique (talk) 04:36, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
It's not true, Wikitiki's template was created much earlier and quite a number of entries were converted by himself and I also followed (used it). --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 04:55, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
Do you need to be told by three admins? One more revert and I will block you. --WikiTiki89 05:09, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
You add wrong info. You should be blocked.--Cinemantique (talk) 05:12, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
The two tables are the same. And if there is any wrong info, you have failed to point it out. --WikiTiki89 05:16, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, I thought you've just reverted my edit.--Cinemantique (talk) 05:35, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
Let's not fight, guys, please! We can do much better if we cooperate. @Cinemantique, please do not think we are against you. You're making great contributions Wikitiki89 started his module first and I am sure you could achieve more if you join the effort. Sorry, I am not a great Lua developer and not planning to learn it now. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 05:17, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
  • It's normal to use Zaliznyak's dictionary to get grammatical information. Why should I use Wikitiki89's system? Did he publish any dictionary? Yes, it's difficult for me, I don't want to get info and then convert it to his system.--Cinemantique (talk) 05:35, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
@Vitalik Cinemantique, what I'm objecting to more than anything else is that you went through and changed a whole bunch of existing entries (several hundred, it looks like) to use Vitalik's new system, without seeking consensus, when the vast majority of the 15,000+ Russian nouns were already consistently using Wikitiki's system. There was no reason to do this, and I was afraid you would continue to do so unless I wrote a fairly sharp message.
As Anatoli suggests, it would be much better if we could work together. I'm not opposed to changing Wikitiki's template to work more like Vitalik's, if you can justify why it should be done, e.g. making it possible to specify a * in place of explicitly specifying the bare stem. But this is something we should discuss first, and we need to merge our efforts, not compete -- Wiktionary is a cooperative effort. Benwing2 (talk) 06:04, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
@Benwing2, can you please look at my stub page for nouns? Possibly, you will understand why my template is easy for me and why I don't want to use the template in which you drop the ending and then return it. In 90% cases I just put one letter and sometimes an asterisk. I always put animacy, it's easy, and I believe that I will do mistakes very rarely (recently I've found 3 or 5 the same mistakes).--Cinemantique (talk) 06:27, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
You're not understanding what I'm saying. It's not just about what's most convenient for you, esp. when you go and change several hundred existing entries. Wiktionary is a collaborative effort and that means you need to be willing to work with other people. Benwing2 (talk) 06:40, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for all your work[edit]

Thanks for all the work you've been doing creating new entries! I really appreciate it. Benwing2 (talk) 11:06, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

  • You're welcome! Can you please rewrite the adjective module a little? I don't want to drop and return ending. Also, I need a parameter for short forms because I don't want to put them manually.--Cinemantique (talk) 11:20, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
    Is it really that hard to insert a pipe between the stem and the ending? --WikiTiki89 17:07, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
    When I create articles I use one parameter in three places (IPA, head, and table). So it would be easy for me.--Cinemantique (talk) 17:15, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
    Take a look at User:Wikitiki89/template:ru-pre-reform-gen and Module:User:Wikitiki89/ru-pre-reform-gen. It's a simple subst-template that automatically creates pre-reform entries and it automatically separates adjective endings and everything like that. See мѣлкій, which was created with {{subst:ru-prg|adj|мѣ́лкій|h=!мѣ́льче!мѣльча́йшій|d=!мѣ́локъ!мѣ́лко!мѣлка́!мѣ́лки,мѣлки́}}. You can create something like that for regular entries. The advantage is that subst-templates don't have to be perfect because you can always override them or fix them after substing. But meanwhile, it's not so hard to paste a word and then type a pipe in the middle of it. --WikiTiki89 17:33, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
  • @Benwing2, can you fix this genitive plural, please (and all other)?--Cinemantique (talk) 16:53, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
I have written the changes to the adjective module for this, but it will take a little while until I test and implement them because I'm currently in a crunch period. As for the fixes to the genitive plural in башня, I'm aware of that, and I have fixes for it, but it will require a bit of testing to make sure it doesn't mess other things up, and that will await me having a bit more time. Don't worry, I will get to these things soon :-) ... Benwing2 (talk) 12:26, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
I fixed the gen pl of башня and related words. Benwing2 (talk) 23:51, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
Do you mean adding pronunciation to the entries? This is possible, although it may take a little while for me to get to it. There are also some bugs in Module:ru-pron that I'd like to fix at some point. Benwing2 (talk) 16:32, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
Thank you. I'll be waiting.--Cinemantique (talk) 16:46, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Please check out new adjective module[edit]

The module is accessed via {{ru-decl-adj-new}}. When I'm pretty sure there aren't any bugs in it I'll put it into {{ru-decl-adj}}. The new module convention is compatible with the old one in that all existing calls should work, but it also allows lots of new features. See the examples in User:Benwing2/test-ru-adjective, which shows various adjectives expressed using the existing template, the new one in a compatible way, and the new one using the new calling conventions.

  • You can specify the full stem, and it will auto-detect the declension.
  • You can specify the short adjective stress pattern, following Zaliznyak: a, a', b, b', c, c', c''.
  • You can specify the marks (1) and (2) to correspond to a couple of special cases that Zaliznyak distinguishes (he calls them помета ① and помета ②).
  • You can specify the * sign to indicate a reducible short masculine form; I implemented the reducible algorithm in Vitalik's module.
  • You can specify a special short stem if it is different from the long one, e.g. мал- for ма́ленький or до́рог- for дорого́й (the regular form derived from this would be доро́г-).
  • You can still override existing forms if you need to, using params 3 through 6 or named overrides like |short_m=. You can specify the value - to indicate that the form is missing (which appears to be the case in the masc sg, e.g., for голубо́й and most adjectives in -о́й with multisyllabic stems; I think this is the meaning of the ⊠ symbol).

There are some instructions at the top of the module code Module:User:Benwing2/ru-adjective. Benwing2 (talk) 14:44, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

BTW one question: In the case of an "unreducible" (i.e. reducible in the opposite direction, i.e. expandable) short masc sing, the epenthetic vowel gets the stress in stress pattern b and b', and doesn't otherwise. But if the masc sing isn't (un)reducible, we don't currently move the stress to the last syllable, instead leaving it where it was. Should we move it? Benwing2 (talk) 14:52, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
No, we don't move it. BTW the paradigm ...*.../b' is unknown.--Cinemantique (talk) 16:25, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
  • маленький has incorrect short plural мали.--Cinemantique (talk) 16:38, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Short masculine of синий is синь.--Cinemantique (talk) 16:43, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Short masculine of длинноше́ий is длинноше́й.--Cinemantique (talk) 17:08, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. Fixed all these issues. Benwing2 (talk) 17:48, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
  • ⊠ symbol means that short masculine doesn't exist and other short forms are rarely used (and speakers have difficulties in using these forms). X means that all short forms are rare (with difficulties).--Cinemantique (talk) 18:12, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. What do the - and ~ symbols mean? Benwing2 (talk) 19:05, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
It means that comparative doesn't exist.--Cinemantique (talk) 20:03, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
Those forms you identify as pluralia tantum or only neuter/plural are actually nouns, I'm pretty sure. I've added support for adjectivally-declined nouns and lots of other stuff to Module:User:Benwing2/ru-noun, the new version of Module:ru-noun. There are a bunch of test cases in User:Benwing2/test-ru-noun. Note that many of the things there that are adjectivally declined are in fact adjectives, and some of the pluralia tantum aren't actually pluralia tantum; don't worry about that, they come from multi-word adjective-noun expressions that will be supported soon. I'm sure there are still bugs in the declensions; I'll hopefully fix them soon enough. Benwing2 (talk) 10:53, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
Also, for дядин, the next parameter needs to be short or mixed to indicate the declension; I'll try to fix фомин and отцов. Benwing2 (talk) 10:56, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
Well, okay, those are nouns. I don't understand what a problem is with дядин. If an adjective ends with unstressed -ин or -ын then its declension is "mixed". If it ends with -ов, -ёв or -ев then its declension is "short" (also, two words фоми́н and ильи́н). Unfortunately, we have a problem with words like лисий. There's no way to detect the type "ьий", we need a parameter for this. Please check page 63 in Zaliznyak's dictionary.--Cinemantique (talk) 13:12, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
Well, I looked in Category:Russian possessive adjectives at all the non-proper -ин adjectives listed, and I see this:
  • ба́бушкин short
  • ма́мин mixed
  • до́черин short
  • дя́дин mixed
  • -ин short=older, mixed=newer
  • се́стрин short
  • ма́терин short
  • су́кин short
So out of 7 cases, 5 are actually declined short, at least according to Wiktionary currently. Maybe this is all wrong, but if not, I don't see how we can assume that -ин adjectives are mixed by default.
BTW I fixed отцов. фомин and ильин are harder because they are ending-stressed and have irregular prep sg compared to other -ин adjs. I'm leaning towards not supporting them since it's only these two words, and instead requiring that they have their declension specified manually using {{ru-adj-table}}, similarly to what's done with e.g. некий and один. Benwing2 (talk) 11:32, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
  • There are mistakes and the type "mixed" is just wrong. In fact,
  • etc. As I said, -ин/-ын adjectives have two variants of genitive and dative masculine/neuter singular, accusative masculine animate singular, and accusative plural. Short variant is a little archaic.--Cinemantique (talk) 12:56, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
OK, are you suggesting that I should changed mixed so all mixed adjectives have two variants in the above cases? Benwing2 (talk) 13:11, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
Yes, that's right. Also, we should change type of су́кин and other.--Cinemantique (talk) 13:18, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
I fixed the adj module. Haven't yet changed су́кин etc. Note that it doesn't error now on фоми́н but gives the wrong decl. Benwing2 (talk) 13:21, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
I've never used that script. It looks like you need to wrap the inflection table entries with something like <span class="gen-dat-ins-prep-feminine-form-of lang-ru origin-автокефа́льный">[[автокефальной#Russian|автокефа́льной]]</span> for e.g. creating the entry for the inflected form автокефа́льной of автокефа́льный. Maybe User:Wikitiki89 or User:CodeCat could help with the JavaScript in User:Conrad.Irwin/creationrules.js. Benwing2 (talk) 06:55, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

камео[edit]

А как ты узнал о первом засвидетельствовании? --Vahag (talk) 21:34, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

  • А я же написал «Яндекс-Новости».--Cinemantique (talk) 21:38, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
    • Интересно, не знал что в «Яндекс-Новостях» можно найти и старые новости, в данном случае статью в Коммерсанте за 1996 г. Есть и другое засвидетельствование того же года. Но поскольку не существует полного корпуса русскоязычной прессы, мы не можем с уверенностью утверждать про первое засвидетельствование. Может изменить текст на "First attestation in Yandex-News is from 1996"? --Vahag (talk) 22:14, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
      • Да, я не против. Как вариант, заменить на "1990s" (тогда оно уже точно было, а в 80-е маловероятно). Вообще, я думаю, что подобные утверждения подразумевают «первое упоминание, которое мы смогли найти» (в Merriam-Webster используется фраза «First Known Use», в русских источниках иногда — «отмечается…»).--Cinemantique (talk) 22:32, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
        • Ещё лучшая практика — добавление самого места засвидетельствования, без утверждений в этимологии о первом появлении. Так делает OED, упорядочивая с самого раннего засвидетельствования до наших дней. Читатели составляют представление о появлении слова из дат этих цитат. --Vahag (talk) 08:27, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
          • Просто самая ранняя цитата может быть не очень хорошим примером-иллюстрацией, тем более в учебном словаре. Это особенно касается допушкинского языка, который и современные носители с трудом воспринимают и понимают.--Cinemantique (talk) 10:03, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
            • Wiktionary не является учебным словарём, несмотря на мнение Анатолия. Мы об этом спорили здесь. --Vahag (talk) 10:30, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
                • Вааг, если ты не согласен русской транслитерацией в английском Викисловаре, не стоит изображать из меня неуча или представителя антинаучного лагеря при каждом удобном случае. При чем ты не отвечаешь на мои аргументы - например, почему русский язык должен транслитерироваться только графически, а многие другие - нет. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 23:03, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
                  • Анатолий, я не выставляю тебя неучем. У нас просто разные философии относительно цели Wiktionary. Я даже признаю, что твой подход востребован бо́льшим количеством читателей. Касательно фонетической транскрипции, твои примеры приведены из азиатских языков, о которых я ничего не знаю. Про индоевропейские языки я читаю много специальной литературы, и поверь, система транслитерации Титарёва–Брауна сильно диссонирует с научной практикой. Для изучения истории языка, для этимологии, очень важно точно цитировать засвидетельствованные формы, без привнесения "помогающих" элементов, без нормализации. Это касается и цитат из литературы. --Vahag (talk) 09:23, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
                      • Вааг, очень жаль, что тебя не интересуют примеры из других языков. То, что они азиатские и ты их не знаешь - слабый аргумент, как ты сам понимаешь. Европейские языки, в большинстве, пользуются латиницей и им не нужна транслитерация. В греческой транслитерации тоже есть исключения. Языки, которые ты иногда используешь в этимологиях и о которых ты имеешь больше представления, тоже имеют исключения в транслитерации - арабский, персидский, урду и иврит. Научная практика русской транслитерации отсутствует. Описанные стандарты нигде не следуются, даже в географических названиях, где практически нет исключений в чтении (Ekaterinburg/Jekaterinburg/Yekaterinburg), не говоря уже о тех словах, где они есть (narodnogo/narodnovo). Я не думаю, что у нас настолько расходятся философии, просто русская транслитерация не удостоила достаточно внимание лингвистов и законодателей. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 11:27, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
                    • А нельзя ли эту транскрипцию сделать настраиваемой? Кто захочет, пусть видит иную транскрипцию. Кстати, я начал создавать статьи о словоформах прилагательных, и у меня нет желания перезаписывать транскрипцию у родительного падежа. Предлагаю создать шаблон ru-adjective form, в котором будет автоматом перезаписываться окончание -ого/-его.--Cinemantique (talk) 09:38, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
                        • @Cinemantique Система для транслитерации форм прилагательных уже есть, она используется в шаблонах для склонения прилагательных. Нужно ее только настроить, может быть Benwing поможет. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 11:27, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
                      • У меня давно назрело другое решение. Есть языки, произношение засвидетельствованных форм которых достоверно не известно из-за нефонетического письма. Например, засвидетельствованное среднеперсидское название Ассирии 𐭠𐭮𐭥𐭥𐭮𐭲𐭭(ʾsʿʿstn) графически транслитерируется как ʾswrstn. Из некоторых внешних соображений мы знаем, что это должно было звучать как Asōrestān или Asūrestān. Научные работы дают и графическую транслитерацию, и фонетическую транскрипцию. Это примерно выглядит так — 𐭠𐭮𐭥𐭥𐭮𐭲𐭭(ʾswrstn /Asōrestān, Asūrestān/). Для русского тоже можно следовать этому формату, например его (egó /jevó/). --Vahag (talk) 10:02, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
                        • Как арабский, персидский, урду и иврит, нет смысла транслитерировать среднеперсидский графически (это и ненаучно и непопулярно) но для желающих понять письменность можно предложить какие-нибудь программки или инструменты (чтобы увидеть "ʾswrstn"). Современное персидское название آسورستان также содержит неписанные гласные, которые транслитерируются. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 11:27, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
                          • Как это ненаучно и непопулярно для среднеперсидского? Абсолютно все научные работы приводят графическую транслитерацию для среднеперсидского, парфянского, согдийского и арамейского. Смотри любую работу в Category:Middle Persian reference templates, Category:Manichaean Middle Persian reference templates, Category:Parthian reference templates или CAL. А для некоторых языков, как хорезмийский, вообще цитируют только графическую форму, потому что мы не имеем представление об их произношении. Я бы предпочёл графическую транслитерацию, в дополнение к фонетической, даже для арабского с новоперсидским. Есть средневековые засвидетельствования, чтение которых спорно, как персидский کوسان‎. Для таких можно показывать только графическую транслитерацию. --Vahag (talk) 12:10, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
              • Я думаю, научная версия русского словаря должна быть в Ru-Wiktionary, и с прочими языками аналогично. Иначе зачем они вообще нужны, в качестве локализации?.. Впрочем, надо заметить, что и академические русские словари какие попало цитаты не берут, есть определённые критерии; там, правда, и год написания не указывается, а приблизительная хронология отмечается первым включением в словарь. Но в OED, видимо, иной подход (я не изучал этот словарь).--Cinemantique (talk) 15:32, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
                • En-Wiktionary является и учебным и научным словарем всех языков. Нас не волнует, что у Ru-Wiktionary тоже такая же цель (хотя бы только для русского языка). А то по-твоему где должен находиться научный словарь (например) древнеславянского? --WikiTiki89 17:39, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
                  • Мы говорили о цитатах, поэтому праязыки не очень хороший пример. Для цитат из среднерусских текстов подошла бы вкладка Citation, хотя добавлять туда сведения не очень удобно.--Cinemantique (talk) 18:01, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

[edit]

What does ∅ mean in снос (snos), просмотр (prosmotr), взлёт (vzljot)? --Vahag (talk) 19:53, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

It is a zero suffix.--Cinemantique (talk) 19:57, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
The format you introduced is unusual and unprecedented. It should be first discussed at the Beer Parlour. Why can't you simply write "Suffixless verbal noun from сносить (snositʹ)"? --Vahag (talk) 21:50, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
We need categorization for such cases and it's scientific enough, as you prefer.--Cinemantique (talk) 22:10, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
I independently wrote about the possible usefulness of categorization in Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2015/September#How_to_deal_with_formations_that_have_no_overt_phonetic_or_orthographic_form.3F. But a more understandable format should be developed. "+∅" doesn't say anything meaningful to most readers. --Vahag (talk) 22:15, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
Thank you. We can use the term "zero suffix" or create an article like this.--Cinemantique (talk) 22:26, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Template ru-noun+[edit]

I created a new template Template:ru-noun+. This is a headword template like Template:ru-noun but it takes parameters just like Template:ru-noun-table. See some examples in User:Benwing2/test-ru-noun. This can be helpful to avoid having to type the gen and nom pl.

In general, if you are used to Template:ru-decl-noun-z, you can get the equivalent in Template:ru-noun-table as follows:

That is, you combine the GENDER and SPECIFIC categories together without a space between them. The only exception is the ё specific, which needs to be written as . In {{ru-noun-table}}, all arguments are optional -- stress defaults to a or b depending on the accent in the lemma, lemma defaults to the page name, gender defaults to the normal gender of the lemma (it is necessary for lemmas in -ь and plurals), animacy defaults to inanimate. To omit the stress, put the lemma as the first param. Benwing2 (talk) 08:54, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Please help with defns[edit]

@Atitarev, Wikitiki89

Please help with the definitions of the following words, which are either new entries or entries with expanded senses:

Thanks! Benwing2 (talk) 07:46, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

@Benwing2 I've done some. обшлаг is incorrect (the endings are stressed in the plural, see ru:wikt), although you had it right on the test page (where you misspelled it as "общлаг"). --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 10:02, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
Thank you!! Benwing2 (talk) 10:02, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Starting to run pronunciation-adding bot[edit]

I wrote the bot code to add pronunciations to the entries you noted above. I've run it so far on the first 25. Please check some of them to make sure everything looks OK. Two warnings:

  • Page 5 макароны: WARNING: Found pronunciation section without ru-IPA
  • Page 12 макулатура: WARNING: Found pronunciation section without ru-IPA

It's not yet able to handle these cases where there's a manual pronunciation, because it can't be sure the pronunciation doesn't specify something unusual. Other cases it can't handle:

  • If there's a tr= parameter specify manual transliteration, because {{ru-IPA}} doesn't yet take transliterated tet
  • If there are multiple etymologies (theoretically this could be handled but it's a bit tricky)
  • If there are missing accent marks
  • {{ru-noun+}} as the headword template (eventually I will handle this)
  • Redirect pages (happens with your entry ты веришь в бога; eventually I will handle this)
  • If there's no headword template (happens with your entry пука, which only has a Serbo-Croatian definition)

Benwing2 (talk) 02:19, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

  • I've checked it all, everything's alright. Thank you!--Cinemantique (talk) 02:43, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
@Atitarev, Wikitiki89 You're welcome. BTW there's an issue with мне жарко (mne žarko) and на вкус и на цвет товарищей нет (na vkus i na cvet tovariščej net) and мля (mlja) and мастер на все руки (master na vse ruki) that have single-syllable words in them. Generally there isn't an accent mark on those words are for this reason the pronunciation module treats them as unstressed, which doesn't seem right. What is the rule regarding such words? When are they stressed and when are they unstressed and can we determine this automatically? Or do we have to explicitly add the accent marks? Benwing2 (talk) 19:42, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
Yes, manual translit is required on all words, except for prepositions (here на), particle не. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 23:10, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
Wyang made a list of prepositions for the module but that doesn't work for long expressions, so I used to add accents manually for proverbs, etc. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 23:15, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, what do you mean manual translit is required on all words? Do you mean accent marks? The question still is, can I just create a list of prepositions and particles and have those be unstressed, and all others stressed? In fact, the module already includes such a list, so can I just make all such words accentless and add accents to other words? Benwing2 (talk) 23:32, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
Oops, yes, sorry I was half-asleep when I posted :). You got it right, that's exactly what I meant. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 23:39, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

need help with more animacy mismatches[edit]

@Atitarev, Cinemantique, Wikitiki89 This is all the remaining animacy mismatches. My algorithm for identifying them is a bit stricter than before and so there may be a few false positives. Thanks very much for your help.

  • Page 8806 Пастернак: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m,f proposed=m-an
  • Page 8926 футон: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=n proposed=m-in
  • Page 8927 сюрикен: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=n proposed=m-in
  • Page 8978 штафирка: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an,f-in proposed=f-an,f-in
  • Page 9003 нимфоманка: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-an proposed=f-in
  • Page 9041 яловец: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 9120 Веста: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-an,f-in proposed=f-in
  • Page 9140 анилин: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 9185 акцептор: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 9224 собеседник: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 9286 затон: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 9308 шпана: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-in proposed=f-an
  • Page 9377 бандикут: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 9382 братва: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-an proposed=f-in
  • Page 9395 исполком: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 9420 балда: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f,m proposed=f-in
  • Page 9456 Ермак: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m,f proposed=m-an
  • Page 9517 кросс: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 9544 матушка: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-in proposed=f-an
  • Page 9604 витязь: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 9624 тукан: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 9663 хранитель: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 9666 генеалог: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 9723 джокер: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an,m-in proposed=m-in
  • Page 9735 кумир: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in,m-an proposed=m-an
  • Page 9741 анаболик: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 9744 флешка: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-in proposed=f-an
  • Page 9754 Фолкнер: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m,f proposed=m-an
  • Page 9819 гнус: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 9823 челядин: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 9856 пискарь: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 9864 топоним: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 10055 асы: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an-p proposed=m-in-p
  • Page 10109 устрица: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-in proposed=f-an
  • Page 10116 стафилококк: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 10125 гармонист: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 10129 Ахеменид: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 10161 подхалим: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 10179 неприятель: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 10207 аффект: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 10212 собачка: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-an,f-in proposed=f-an
  • Page 10214 лошадка: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-an,f-in proposed=f-an
  • Page 10317 сверстник: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 10340 Агуаскальентес: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 10372 алабама: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m proposed=f-in
  • Page 10401 Александруполис: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 10405 псевдоним: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 10564 Анаксагор: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 10585 ветреница: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-in proposed=f-an
  • Page 10639 риелтер: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 10867 каблук: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 10963 Аргус: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 11038 приостановка: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=n proposed=f-in
  • Page 11095 Смит: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m,f proposed=m-an
  • Page 11096 поэма: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-an proposed=f-in
  • Page 11104 дисплей: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 11244 лицемерка: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-an proposed=f-in
  • Page 11260 Аткинсон: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m,f proposed=m-an
  • Page 11280 показатель: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 11307 люлька: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-in proposed=f-an
  • Page 11308 фрегат: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in,m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 11320 асура: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-an proposed=f-in
  • Page 11335 атакующий: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 11384 бацилла: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-in proposed=f-an
  • Page 11462 алгонкин: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 11467 виллан: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 11527 грация: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-in,f-an proposed=f-in
  • Page 11580 инфузория: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=f-in
  • Page 11664 Стрейзанд: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m,f proposed=m-an
  • Page 11738 сисечка: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-in proposed=f-an
  • Page 11841 гармошка: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-in proposed=f-an
  • Page 11845 косарь: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an,f-in proposed=m-an,m-in
  • Page 11852 заслон: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 11929 обожательница: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-in proposed=f-an
  • Page 11966 звездолёт: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 11970 стегозавр: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=n proposed=m-an
  • Page 12018 внучок: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 12250 абарга: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-an proposed=f-in
  • Page 12265 обсдача: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-an proposed=f-in
  • Page 12270 абиссинец: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 12341 стрелец: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 12402 дизайнер: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 12403 скуа: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-an proposed=f-in
  • Page 12406 Макаревич: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an,f-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 12416 Хам: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 12450 автоматчик: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 12522 воевода: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=f-an
  • Page 12602 гадалка: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-an proposed=f-in
  • Page 12675 дачник: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 12755 доярка: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-in proposed=f-an
  • Page 12797 живописец: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 12807 жулик: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 12808 журналистка: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-in proposed=f-an
  • Page 12841 заказчик: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 12917 извозчик: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 13207 лыжник: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 13224 мамка: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-an proposed=f-in
  • Page 13239 мастерица: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-an proposed=f-in
  • Page 13472 обидчик: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 13511 обыватель: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 13528 однокашник: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 13577 ослик: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 13655 парнишка: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=f-in
  • Page 13676 первенец: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 13762 пловец: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 13812 подружка: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-an proposed=f-in
  • Page 13813 подрядчик: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 13832 покровитель: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 13870 помещик: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 13896 посланец: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 13898 последователь: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 13906 постоялец: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 14122 разработчик: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 14183 рейх: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 14217 родич: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 14339 собрат: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 14392 спутница: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-an proposed=f-in
  • Page 14406 старшеклассник: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 14472 тельняшка: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-in proposed=f-an
  • Page 14923 бражник: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 15029 движитель: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 15030 генсек: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 15031 госсекретарь: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 15036 переменка: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-in proposed=f-an
  • Page 15049 испытатель: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 15060 шоссейник: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 15079 начинающий: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 15081 молчун: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 15100 заведующий: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 15159 байдара: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-an proposed=f-in
  • Page 15165 Хиль: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an,f-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 15192 гастроль: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-an proposed=f-in
  • Page 15209 дипломник: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 15210 дипломант: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 15214 перепечатка: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-an proposed=f-in
  • Page 15240 опросник: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 15247 деканат: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 15285 распиздяй: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-in proposed=m-an
  • Page 15295 разиня: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-in proposed=f-an
  • Page 15296 зевака: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an,f-an proposed=f-in
  • Page 15326 устилка: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=f-in
  • Page 15327 детвора: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-an proposed=f-in
  • Page 15333 бикамерализм: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=m-in
  • Page 15356 растрата: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an proposed=f-in
  • Page 15441 норка: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=f-an,f-in proposed=f-an
  • Page 15514 остальные: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=? proposed=n-in
  • Page 15516 кочкарь: WARNING: Animacy mismatch, skipping: cur=m-an,m-in proposed=m-an

Benwing2 (talk) 17:30, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Done.--Cinemantique (talk) 19:34, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks again! This should take care of almost all the remaining headword issues I found. Benwing2 (talk) 23:00, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

cases of manually-given pronunciation that probably need phon= with non-palatal э[edit]

@Atitarev, Cinemantique, Wikitiki89 I wrote a program to convert manually given pronunciations specified using {{IPA}} to use {{ru-IPA}} instead. However, I don't just convert everything willy-nilly, but check that the pronunciation generated by the module is the same, after various canonicalizations have been applied. The remaining cases are either errors in the manual pronunciation, errors in the module, or cases where phon= or gem= needs to be given. The following are cases where I suspect phon= needs to be given; can you check them and maybe fix up the entries to use phon=? Thanks!

BTW, the warning message gives both the automatic (module-generated) and manual pronunciations, in the form "canonicalized (original)", so you might want to look at the original form in parentheses. Benwing2 (talk) 05:36, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

Done.--Cinemantique (talk) 07:46, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
Thank you!!! Benwing2 (talk) 09:45, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

multiple params in {{IPA}}, mostly fairly strange[edit]

@Atitarev, Cinemantique, Wikitiki89 My script complained about 30 cases where {{IPA}} lists multiple pronunciations. It turns out this is legitimate except that most of these pronunciations are strange in one way or another. Can you or Anatoli fix them up? Benwing2 (talk) 08:46, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

  • Page 627 Азия: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /ˈazʲɪjə/, /ˈazʲɪə/
  • Page 2647 блеять: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /ˈblʲejɪtʲ/, /ˈblʲeɪtʲ/
  • Page 3143 будущий: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /ˈbudʊɕːɪj/, /ˈbudʊjɕːɪj/
  • Page 4385 вообще: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /vɐ.ɐˈpɕːe/, /vɐːˈpɕːe/, /vɐˈpɕːe/
  • Page 4673 всякий: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /ˈfsʲækʲɪj/, /ˈfʲsʲækʲɪj/
  • Page 4811 выиграть: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /ˈvɨ.ɪɡrətʲ/, /ˈvɨɡrətʲ/
  • Page 4813 выигрыш: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /ˈvɨ.ɪɡrɨʂ/, /ˈvɨɡrɨʂ/
  • Page 5272 гениальный: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /ɡʲɪnʲɪˈalʲnɨj/, /ɡʲɪnʲɪˈjælʲnɨj/
  • Page 5885 гроссмейстер: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /ɡrɐsˈmʲejsʲtʲɪr/, /ɡrɐsˈmʲejstər/
  • Page 8455 зоопарк: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /zɐːˈpark/, /zɐ.ɐˈpark/
  • Page 8565 идиш: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /ˈidʲɪʂ/, /ˈidɨʂ/
  • Page 8780 Иисус: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): [ɪɪˈsus], [ɪˈsus]
  • Page 8867 -ин: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /ˈin/, /ɪn/
  • Page 9422 какао: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /kɐˈka.o/, /kɐˈka.və/
  • Page 10492 кондиционер: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /kənʲ.dʲɪ.t͡sɨ.ɐˈnʲer/, /kənʲ.dʲɪ.t͡sɐˈnʲer/
  • Page 12246 маман: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /mɐˈman/, /mɐˈmã/
  • Page 12403 материал: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /mətʲɪrʲɪˈal/, /mətʲɪrʲˈjal/
  • Page 12732 микроволновка: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /mʲɪkrəvɐlˈnofkə/, /ˌmʲikrəvɐlˈnofkə/
  • Page 15335 океан: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /ɐkʲɪˈan/, /ɐˈkʲjan/
  • Page 15591 опыт: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /ˈopɨt/, /ˈopət/
  • Page 20089 пьяный: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): [ˈpʲja.nɨj], [ˈpʲjan.nɨj]
  • Page 20285 раздевать: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): [rəz.dʲɪˈvatʲ], [rəzʲ.dʲɪˈvatʲ]
  • Page 20286 раздеваться: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): [rəz.dʲɪˈvat͡sə], [rəzʲ.dʲɪˈvat͡sə]
  • Page 23451 стетоскоп: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): [stʲɪtɐˈskop], [stɛtɐˈskop]
  • Page 24155 тезаурус: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /tʲɪˈzaʊrʊs/, /tɨˈzaʊrʊs/
  • Page 24797 троюродный: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /trɐˈjʉrədnɨj/, /trɐˈjʉrnɨj/
  • Page 26116 фортепиано: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /fərtɨpʲɪˈanə/, /fərtɨˈpʲjanə/
  • Page 26857 челюсть: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /ˈtɕelʲʉsʲtʲ/, /ˈtɕelʲɪsʲtʲ/
  • Page 26946 четвероюродный: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /t͡ɕɪtvʲɪrɐˈjʉrədnɨj/, /t͡ɕɪtvʲɪrɐˈjʉrnɨj/
  • Page 27488 штанга: WARNING: IPA template has extra parameters, skipping: IPA(key): /ˈʂtanɡə/, /ˈʂtaŋɡə/
Done. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 09:46, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
Thank you very much! Benwing2 (talk) 10:09, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

manual-IPA geminations, may be bogus[edit]

@Atitarev, Cinemantique, Wikitiki89 Here is the list of cases where the manual IPA pronunciation has an extra gemination in it that the module wouldn't generate. There are a good deal of these, 239 to be specific. If you (Cinemantique, Anatoli or Wikitiki) could either fix up the pages, or just mark them here as to whether they need gemination (yes/no/opt), and I'll have my script do the right thing with them. Thanks a lot and Cinemantique sorry to dump so many cases on your talk page!!! Benwing2 (talk) 10:55, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

@Benwing2 The list is quite big, could you add the automatic transcriptions but let us fix/check those that need fixing? There are a lot of incorrect transcriptions, the automatic will work for about 80-90%, some will require gem=y or phon=. Leave the list here, if Cinemantique doesn't mind. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 23:37, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
@Atitarev It looks like you've dealt with about half the list, thanks! If you want, you can just fix the ones that the module wouldn't get right, and leave the rest; my script won't override an existing ru-IPA template. Benwing2 (talk) 03:19, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
@Benwing2 Sounds good, thanks! --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 03:23, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
@Benwing2 Could you run your script, please? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 06:07, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
@Atitarev OK ... I assume you've fixed up all the words needing fixing. Thanks for doing that!! 06:16, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
@Benwing2 Not yet, it's just easier if they use the right templates.--Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 07:16, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
@Atitarev It's done. Benwing2 (talk) 07:19, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
@Benwing2 Just in case you're wondering about the list below, I've checked it. Thanks for running the script, after that I only had to change ветчина, which has a gemination. It's much less time-consuming to check when the format is already there. For reference of previous edits, lists like this one below can be used. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 02:10, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Page 90 аббаси: WARNING: For headword абба́си, auto ɐˈbasʲɪ not same as manual ɐˈbːasʲɪ (/ɐˈbːasʲɪ/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 134 аберрационный: WARNING: For headword аберрацио́нный, auto ɐbʲɪrət͡sɨˈonːɨj not same as manual ɐbʲɪrːət͡sɨˈonːɨj (/əbʲɪrːət͡sɨˈonːɨj/): insert ː at 5
  • Page 280 абсцесс: WARNING: For headword абсце́сс, auto ɐˈpst͡sɛs (ɐpˈst͡sɛs) not same as manual ɐˈpst͡sɛsː (/ɐpˈst͡sɛsː/): insert ː at 9
  • Page 332 Авессалом: WARNING: For headword Авессало́м, auto ɐvʲɪsɐˈlom not same as manual ɐvʲɪsːɐˈlom (/əvʲɪsːɐˈlom/): insert ː at 5
  • Page 407 автоканнибализм: WARNING: For headword автоканнибали́зм, auto ɐftəkənʲːɪbɐˈlʲizm not same as manual ɐftəkənʲːɪbɐˈlʲːizm (/əftəkənʲːɪbɐˈlʲːizm/): insert ː at 15
  • Page 477 агглютинативный: WARNING: For headword агглютинати́вный, auto ɐɡlʲʉtʲɪnɐˈtʲivnɨj not same as manual ɐɡːlʲʉtʲɪnɐˈtʲivnɨj (/əɡːlʲʉtɪnɐˈtʲivnɨj/): insert ː at 2
  • Page 507 агрессивность: WARNING: For headword агресси́вность, auto ɐɡrʲɪˈsʲivnəsʲtʲ not same as manual ɐɡrʲɪˈsʲːivnəsʲtʲ (/əɡrʲɪˈsʲːivnəsʲtʲ/): insert ː at 8
  • Page 508 агрессивный: WARNING: For headword агресси́вный, auto ɐɡrʲɪˈsʲivnɨj not same as manual ɐɡrʲɪˈsʲːivnɨj (/əɡrʲɪˈsʲːivnɨj/): insert ː at 8
  • Page 595 адский: WARNING: For headword а́дский, auto ˈat͡skʲɪj not same as manual ˈat͡sːkʲɪj (/ˈatt͡skʲɪj/): insert ː at 5
  • Page 680 аккадский: WARNING: For headword акка́дский, auto ɐˈkat͡skʲɪj not same as manual ɐˈkːat͡skʲɪj (/ɐˈkːat͡skʲɪj/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 682 акклиматизация: WARNING: For headword акклиматиза́ция, auto ɐklʲɪmətʲɪˈzat͡sɨjə not same as manual ɐkːlʲɪmətʲɪˈzat͡sɨjə (/əkːlʲɪmətʲɪˈzat͡sɨjə/): insert ː at 2
  • Page 686 аккомодация: WARNING: For headword аккомода́ция, auto ɐkəmɐˈdat͡sɨjə not same as manual ɐkːəmɐˈdat͡sɨjə (/əkːəmɐˈdat͡sɨjə/): insert ː at 2
  • Page 687 аккомпанемент: WARNING: For headword аккомпанеме́нт, auto ɐkəmpənʲɪˈmʲent not same as manual ɐkːəmpənʲɪˈmʲent (/əkːəmpənʲɪˈmʲent/): insert ː at 2
  • Page 690 аккорд: WARNING: For headword акко́рд, auto ɐˈkort not same as manual ɐˈkːort (/ɐˈkːort/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 691 аккордеон: WARNING: For headword аккордео́н, auto ɐkərdʲɪˈon not same as manual ɐkːərdʲɪˈon (/əkːərdʲɪˈon/): insert ː at 2
  • Page 692 аккордеонист: WARNING: For headword аккордеони́ст, auto ɐkərdʲɪɐˈnʲist not same as manual ɐkːərdʲɪɐˈnʲist (/əkːərdʲiɐˈnʲist/): insert ː at 2
  • Page 693 аккордеонистка: WARNING: For headword аккордеони́стка, auto ɐkərdʲɪɐˈnʲistkə not same as manual ɐkːərdʲɪɐˈnʲistkə (/əkːərdʲiɐˈnʲistkə/): insert ː at 2
  • Page 696 аккумулятор: WARNING: For headword аккумуля́тор, auto ɐkʊmʊˈlʲætər not same as manual ɐkːʊmʊˈlʲætər (/əkːʊmʊˈlʲætər/): insert ː at 2
  • Page 698 аккуратный: WARNING: For headword аккура́тный, auto ɐkʊˈratnɨj not same as manual ɐkːʊˈratnɨj (/əkːʊˈratnɨj/): insert ː at 2
  • Page 699 акмеизм: WARNING: For headword акмеи́зм, auto ɐkmʲɪˈizm not same as manual ɐkmʲɪˈiːzm (/əkmʲɪˈiːzm/): insert ː at 7
  • Page 835 аллатив: WARNING: For headword аллати́в, auto ɐlɐˈtʲif not same as manual ɐlːɐˈtʲif (/əlːɐˈtʲif/): insert ː at 2
  • Page 838 аллах: WARNING: For headword алла́х, auto ɐˈlax not same as manual ɐˈlːax (/ɐˈlːax/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 840 Аллахабад: WARNING: For headword Аллахаба́д, auto ɐləxɐˈbat not same as manual ɐlːəxɐˈbat (/əlːəxɐˈbat/): insert ː at 2
  • Page 842 аллегорически: WARNING: For headword аллегори́чески, auto ɐlʲɪɡɐˈrʲit͡ɕɪskʲɪ not same as manual ɐlʲːɪɡɐˈrʲit͡ɕɪskʲɪ (/əlʲːɪɡɐˈrʲit͡ɕɪskʲɪ/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 843 аллегорический: WARNING: For headword аллегори́ческий, auto ɐlʲɪɡɐˈrʲit͡ɕɪskʲɪj not same as manual ɐlʲːɪɡɐˈrʲit͡ɕɪskʲɪj (/əlʲːɪɡɐˈrʲit͡ɕɪskʲɪj/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 844 аллегория: WARNING: For headword аллего́рия, auto ɐlʲɪˈɡorʲɪjə not same as manual ɐlʲːɪˈɡorʲɪjə (/əlʲːɪˈɡorʲɪjə/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 845 аллель: WARNING: For headword алле́ль, auto ɐˈlʲelʲ not same as manual ɐˈlʲːelʲ (/ɐˈlʲːelʲ/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 846 аллерген: WARNING: For headword аллерге́н, auto ɐlʲɪˈrɡʲen (ɐlʲɪrˈɡʲen) not same as manual ɐlʲːɪˈrɡʲen (/əlʲːɪrˈɡʲen/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 847 аллергичный: WARNING: For headword аллерги́чный, auto ɐlʲɪˈrɡʲit͡ɕnɨj (ɐlʲɪrˈɡʲit͡ɕnɨj) not same as manual ɐlʲːɪˈrɡʲit͡ɕnɨj (/əlʲːɪrˈɡʲit͡ɕnɨj/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 848 аллергия: WARNING: For headword аллерги́я, auto ɐlʲɪˈrɡʲijə (ɐlʲɪrˈɡʲijə) not same as manual ɐlʲːɪˈrɡʲijə (/əlʲːɪrˈɡʲijə/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 850 аллигатор: WARNING: For headword аллига́тор, auto ɐlʲɪˈɡatər not same as manual ɐlʲːɪˈɡatər (/əlːɪˈɡatər/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 852 аллитерация: WARNING: For headword аллитера́ция, auto ɐlʲɪtʲɪˈrat͡sɨjə not same as manual ɐlʲːɪtʲɪˈrat͡sɨjə (/əlʲːɪtʲɪˈrat͡sɨjə/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 854 аллод: WARNING: For headword алло́д, auto ɐˈlot not same as manual ɐˈlːot (/ɐˈlːot/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 856 аллотропия: WARNING: For headword аллотро́пия, auto ɐlɐˈtropʲɪjə (ɐlɐtˈropʲɪjə) not same as manual ɐlːɐˈtropʲɪjə (/əlːɐˈtropʲɪjə/): insert ː at 2
  • Page 857 аллофон: WARNING: For headword аллофо́н, auto ɐlɐˈfon not same as manual ɐlːɐˈfon (/əlːɐˈfon/): insert ː at 2
  • Page 858 аллювиальный: WARNING: For headword аллювиа́льный, auto ɐlʲʉvʲɪˈalʲnɨj not same as manual ɐlʲːʉvʲɪˈalʲnɨj (/əlʲːʉvʲɪˈalʲnɨj/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 859 аллюзия: WARNING: For headword аллю́зия, auto ɐˈlʲʉzʲɪjə not same as manual ɐˈlʲːʉzʲɪjə (/ɐˈlʲːʉzʲɪjə/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 984 Амман: WARNING: For headword Амма́н, auto ɐˈman not same as manual ɐˈmːan (/ɐˈmːan/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 985 аммиак: WARNING: For headword аммиа́к, auto ɐmʲɪˈak not same as manual ɐmʲːɪˈak (/əmʲːɪˈak/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 1232 антидепрессант: WARNING: For headword антидепресса́нт, auto ɐnʲtʲɪdʲɪprʲɪˈsant not same as manual ɐnʲtʲɪdʲɪprʲɪˈsːant (/ənʲtʲɪdʲɪprʲɪˈsːant/): insert ː at 15
  • Page 1240 антикоммунизм: WARNING: For headword антикоммуни́зм, auto ɐnʲtʲɪkəmʊˈnʲizm not same as manual ɐnʲtʲɪkəmːʊˈnʲizm (/ənʲtʲɪkəmːʊˈnʲizm/): insert ː at 9
  • Page 1268 антитерроризм: WARNING: For headword антитеррори́зм, auto ɐnʲtʲɪtʲɪrɐˈrʲizm not same as manual ɐnʲtʲɪtʲɪrːɐˈrʲizm (/ənʲtʲɪtʲɪrːɐˈrʲizm/): insert ː at 10
  • Page 1333 апелляция: WARNING: For headword апелля́ция, auto ɐpʲɪˈlʲæt͡sɨjə not same as manual ɐpʲɪˈlʲːæt͡sɨjə (/əpʲɪˈlʲːæt͡sɨjə/): insert ː at 7
  • Page 1352 Аполлон: WARNING: For headword Аполло́н, auto ɐpɐˈlon not same as manual ɐpɐˈlːon (/əpɐˈlːon/): insert ː at 5
  • Page 1353 аполлон: WARNING: For headword аполло́н, auto ɐpɐˈlon not same as manual ɐpɐˈlːon (/əpɐˈlːon/): insert ː at 5
  • Page 1371 аппаратура: WARNING: For headword аппарату́ра, auto ɐpərɐˈturə not same as manual ɐpːərɐˈturə (/əpːərɐˈturə/): insert ː at 2
  • Page 1373 аппаратчица: WARNING: For headword аппара́тчица, auto ɐpɐˈrat͡ɕːɪt͡sə not same as manual ɐpːɐˈrat͡ɕɪt͡sə (/əpːɐˈrat͡ɕɪt͡sə/): insert ː at 2, delete ː at 9 (NOTE GEMINATE DELETION AT 9)
  • Page 1374 аппендикс: WARNING: For headword аппе́ндикс, auto ɐˈpʲenʲdʲɪks not same as manual ɐˈpʲːenʲdʲɪks (/ɐˈpʲːenʲdʲɪks/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 1375 аппендицит: WARNING: For headword аппендици́т, auto ɐpʲɪnʲdʲɪˈt͡sɨt not same as manual ɐpʲːɪnʲdʲɪˈt͡sɨt (/əpʲːɪnʲdʲɪˈt͡sɨt/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 1376 аппендэктомия: WARNING: For headword аппендэктоми́я, auto ɐpʲɪndɨktɐˈmʲijə not same as manual ɐpʲːɪndɨktɐˈmʲijə (/əpʲːɪndɨktɐˈmʲijə/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 1377 апперкот: WARNING: For headword апперко́т, auto ɐpʲɪˈrkot (ɐpʲɪrˈkot) not same as manual ɐpʲːɪˈrkot (/əpʲːɪrˈkot/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 1502 Армагеддон: WARNING: For headword Армагеддо́н, auto ɐrməɡʲɪˈdon not same as manual ɐrməɡʲɪˈdːon (/ərməɡʲɪˈdːon/): insert ː at 9
  • Page 1549 артиллерийский: WARNING: For headword артиллери́йский, auto ɐrtʲɪlʲɪˈrʲijskʲɪj not same as manual ɐrtʲɪlʲːɪˈrʲijskʲɪj (/ərtʲɪlʲːɪˈrʲijskʲɪj/): insert ː at 7
  • Page 1551 артиллерист: WARNING: For headword артиллери́ст, auto ɐrtʲɪlʲɪˈrʲist not same as manual ɐrtʲɪlʲːɪˈrʲist (/ərtʲɪlʲːɪˈrʲist/): insert ː at 7
  • Page 1552 артиллерия: WARNING: For headword артилле́рия, auto ɐrtʲɪˈlʲerʲɪjə not same as manual ɐrtʲɪˈlʲːerʲɪjə (/ərtʲɪˈlʲːerʲɪjə/): insert ː at 8
  • Page 1628 Ассам: WARNING: For headword Асса́м, auto ɐˈsam not same as manual ɐˈsːam (/ɐˈsːam/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 1630 ассамский: WARNING: For headword асса́мский, auto ɐˈsamskʲɪj not same as manual ɐˈsːamskʲɪj (/ɐˈsːamskʲɪj/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 1631 ассемблер: WARNING: For headword assɛ́mbler, auto ɐˈsɛmblʲɪr not same as manual ɐˈsːɛmblʲɪr (/ɐˈsːɛmblʲɪr/): insert ː at 3 (NOTE MANUAL TRANSLIT)
  • Page 1633 ассигновать: WARNING: For headword ассигнова́ть, auto ɐsʲɪɡnɐˈvatʲ not same as manual ɐsʲːɪɡnɐˈvatʲ (/əsʲːɪɡnɐˈvatʲ/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 1634 ассимилировать: WARNING: For headword ассимили́ровать, auto ɐsʲɪmʲɪˈlʲirəvətʲ not same as manual ɐsʲːɪmʲɪˈlʲirəvətʲ (/əsʲːɪmʲɪˈlʲirəvətʲ/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 1635 ассимиляция: WARNING: For headword ассимиля́ция, auto ɐsʲɪmʲɪˈlʲæt͡sɨjə not same as manual ɐsʲːɪmʲɪˈlʲæt͡sɨjə (/əsʲːɪmʲɪˈlʲætsɨjə/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 1636 ассириец: WARNING: For headword ассири́ец, auto ɐsʲɪˈrʲi(j)ɪt͡s not same as manual ɐsʲːɪˈrʲi(j)ɪt͡s (/əsʲːɪˈrʲijɪt͡s/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 1637 ассирийка: WARNING: For headword ассири́йка, auto ɐsʲɪˈrʲijkə not same as manual ɐsʲːɪˈrʲijkə (/əsʲːɪˈrʲijkə/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 1638 ассирийский: WARNING: For headword ассири́йский, auto ɐsʲɪˈrʲijskʲɪj not same as manual ɐsʲːɪˈrʲijskʲɪj (/əsʲːɪˈrʲijskʲɪj/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 1641 ассистент: WARNING: For headword ассисте́нт, auto ɐsʲɪˈsʲtʲent not same as manual ɐsʲːɪˈsʲtʲent (/əsʲːɪˈsʲtʲent/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 1642 ассистентка: WARNING: For headword ассисте́нтка, auto ɐsʲɪˈsʲtʲentkə not same as manual ɐsʲːɪˈsʲtʲentkə (/əsʲːɪˈsʲtʲentkə/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 1643 ассистировать: WARNING: For headword ассисти́ровать, auto ɐsʲɪˈsʲtʲirəvətʲ not same as manual ɐsʲːɪˈsʲtʲirəvətʲ (/əsʲːɪsʲˈtʲirəvətʲ/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 1644 ассонанс: WARNING: For headword ассона́нс, auto ɐsɐˈnans not same as manual ɐsːɐˈnans (/əsːɐˈnans/): insert ː at 2
  • Page 1715 атолл: WARNING: For headword ато́лл, auto ɐˈtol not same as manual ɐˈtolː (/ɐˈtolː/): insert ː at 5
  • Page 1735 атташе: WARNING: For headword атташе́, auto ɐtɐˈʂɛ not same as manual ɐtːɐˈʂɛ (/ətːɐˈʂɛ/): insert ː at 2
  • Page 1824 аффект: WARNING: For headword аффе́кт, auto ɐˈfʲekt not same as manual ɐˈfʲːekt (/ɐˈfʲːekt/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 1827 аффинный: WARNING: For headword аффи́нный, auto ɐˈfʲinːɨj not same as manual ɐˈfʲːinːɨj (/ɐˈfʲːinːɨj/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 1828 аффриката: WARNING: For headword аффрика́та, auto ɐfrʲɪˈkatə not same as manual ɐfːrʲɪˈkata (/əfːrʲɪˈkata/): insert ː at 2, replace ə -> a at 9 (NOTE CHANGE AT END)
  • Page 1836 Ахилл: WARNING: For headword Ахи́лл, auto ɐˈxʲil not same as manual ɐˈxʲilː (/ɐˈxʲilː/): insert ː at 6
  • Page 1881 аятолла: WARNING: For headword аятолла́, auto ɐ(j)ɪtɐˈla not same as manual ɐʲɪtɐˈlːa (/əʲɪtɐˈlːa/): replace (j) -> ʲ at 1, insert ː at 9 (NOTE SUPERSCRIPT J AT 1)
  • Page 1970 балл: WARNING: For headword ба́лл, auto bal (ˈbal) not same as manual balː (/balː/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 1971 баллада: WARNING: For headword балла́да, auto bɐˈladə not same as manual bɐˈlːadə (/bɐˈlːadə/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 1972 баллистика: WARNING: For headword балли́стика, auto bɐˈlʲisʲtʲɪkə not same as manual bɐˈlʲːisʲtʲɪkə (/bɐˈlʲːisʲtʲɪkə/): insert ː at 5
  • Page 1974 баллон: WARNING: For headword балло́н, auto bɐˈlon not same as manual bɐˈlːon (/bɐˈlːon/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 2060 барражирование: WARNING: For headword барражи́рование, auto bərɐˈʐɨrəvənʲɪjə not same as manual bərːɐˈʐɨrəvənʲɪjə (/bərːɐˈʐɨrəvənʲɪjə/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 2311 белладонна: WARNING: For headword белладо́нна, auto bʲɪlɐˈdonːə not same as manual bʲɪlːɐˈdonːə (/bʲɪlːɐˈdonːə/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 2381 берилл: WARNING: For headword бери́лл, auto bʲɪˈrʲil not same as manual bʲɪˈrʲilː (/bʲɪˈrʲilː/): insert ː at 8
  • Page 2559 биссектриса: WARNING: For headword биссектри́са, auto bʲɪsʲɪˈktrʲisə (bʲɪsʲɪktˈrʲisə) not same as manual bʲɪsʲːɪˈkrʲisə (/bʲɪsʲːɪkˈrʲisə/): insert ː at 5, delete t at 8 (NOTE DELETION OF T)
  • Page 2914 босс: WARNING: For headword бо́сс, auto bos (ˈbos) not same as manual bosː (/bosː/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 3039 бритт: WARNING: For headword бри́тт, auto brʲit (ˈbrʲit) not same as manual brʲitː (/brʲitː/): insert ː at 5
  • Page 3105 Брюссель: WARNING: For headword Брюссе́ль, auto brʲʉˈsʲelʲ not same as manual brʲʉˈsʲːelʲ (/brʲʉˈsʲːelʲ/): insert ː at 7
  • Page 3128 буддизм: WARNING: For headword будди́зм, auto bʊˈdʲizm not same as manual bʊˈdʲːizm (/bʊˈdːizm/): insert ː at 5
  • Page 3169 буккакэ: WARNING: For headword букка́кэ, auto bʊˈkakɨ not same as manual bʊˈkːakɛ (/bʊˈkːakɛ/): insert ː at 4, replace ɨ -> ɛ at 6 (NOTE CHANGE AT POSITION 6)
  • Page 3242 буссоль: WARNING: For headword буссо́ль, auto bʊˈsolʲ not same as manual bʊˈsːolʲ (/bʊˈsːolʲ/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 3435 валлийский: WARNING: For headword валли́йский, auto vɐˈlʲijskʲɪj not same as manual vɐˈlʲːijskʲɪj (/vɐˈlʲːijskʲɪj/): insert ː at 5
  • Page 3436 валлонский: WARNING: For headword валло́нский, auto vɐˈlonskʲɪj not same as manual vɐˈlːonskʲɪj (/vɐˈlːonskʲɪj/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 3483 вассал: WARNING: For headword васса́л, auto vɐˈsal not same as manual vɐˈsːal (/vɐˈsːal/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 3579 вексиллология: WARNING: For headword вексиллоло́гия, auto vʲɪksʲɪlɐˈloɡʲɪjə not same as manual vʲɪksʲɪlːɐˈloɡʲɪjə (/vʲɪksʲɪlːɐˈloɡʲɪjə/): insert ː at 8
  • Page 3762 ветчина: WARNING: For headword ветчина́, auto vʲɪt͡ɕɪˈna not same as manual vʲɪt͡ɕːɪˈna (/vʲɪtt͡ɕɪˈna/): insert ː at 6
  • Page 3767 вечерний: WARNING: For headword вече́рний, auto vʲɪˈt͡ɕernʲɪj not same as manual vʲɪˈt͡ɕernʲːɪj (/vʲɪˈt͡ɕernʲːɪj/): insert ː at 11
  • Page 3860 видеокассета: WARNING: For headword видеокассе́та, auto vʲɪdʲɪəkɐˈsʲetə not same as manual vʲɪdʲɪəkɐˈsʲːetə (/vʲɪdʲɪəkɐˈsʲːetə/): insert ː at 12
  • Page 5150 галл: WARNING: For headword га́лл, auto ɡal (ˈɡal) not same as manual ɡalː (/ɡalː/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 5252 геморрой: WARNING: For headword геморро́й, auto ɡʲɪmɐˈroj not same as manual ɡʲɪmɐˈrːoj (/ɡʲɪmɐˈrːoj/): insert ː at 7
  • Page 5442 глоссарий: WARNING: For headword глосса́рий, auto ɡlɐˈsarʲɪj not same as manual ˈɡlɐˈsːarʲɪj (/ˈɡlɐˈsːarʲɪj/): insert ˈ at 0, insert ː at 5 (NOTE EXTRA STRESS AT 0)
  • Page 5543 голландец: WARNING: For headword голла́ндец, auto ɡɐˈlanʲdʲɪt͡s not same as manual ɡɐˈlːanʲdʲɪt͡s (/ɡɐˈlːanʲdʲɪt͡s/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 5545 голландка: WARNING: For headword голла́ндка, auto ɡɐˈlantkə not same as manual ɡɐˈlːantkə (/ɡɐˈlːantkə/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 5714 господствующий: WARNING: For headword госпо́дствующий, auto ɡɐˈspot͡stvʊjʉɕːɪj not same as manual ɡɐˈspot͡sːtvʊjʉɕːɪj (/gɐsˈpott͡stvʊjʉɕːɪj/): insert ː at 9
  • Page 5773 грамм: WARNING: For headword гра́мм, auto ɡram (ˈɡram) not same as manual ɡramː ([ɡramː]): insert ː at 4
  • Page 5774 грамматика: WARNING: For headword грамма́тика, auto ɡrɐˈmatʲɪkə not same as manual ɡrɐˈmːatʲɪkə (/ɡrɐˈmːatʲɪkə/): insert ː at 5
  • Page 5776 грамматический: WARNING: For headword граммати́ческий, auto ɡrəmɐˈtʲit͡ɕɪskʲɪj not same as manual ɡrəmːɐˈtʲit͡ɕɪskʲɪj (/ɡrəmːɐˈtʲit͡ɕɪskʲɪj/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 5777 граммофон: WARNING: For headword граммофо́н, auto ɡrəmɐˈfon not same as manual ɡrəmːɐˈfon (/ɡrəmːɐˈfon/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 5806 граффити: WARNING: For headword граффи́ти, auto ɡrɐˈfʲitʲɪ not same as manual ɡrɐˈfʲːitʲɪ (/ɡrɐˈfʲːitʲɪ/): insert ː at 6
  • Page 6097 датчанин: WARNING: For headword датча́нин, auto dɐˈt͡ɕænʲɪn not same as manual dɐˈt͡ɕːænʲɪn (/dɐˈtt͡ɕænʲɪn/): insert ː at 6
  • Page 6098 датчанка: WARNING: For headword датча́нка, auto dɐˈt͡ɕænkə not same as manual dɐˈt͡ɕːænkə (/dɐˈtt͡ɕænkə/): insert ː at 6
  • Page 6108 двадцатый: WARNING: For headword двадца́тый, auto dvɐˈt͡satɨj not same as manual dvɐˈt͡sːatɨj (/dvɐtˈt͡satɨj/): insert ː at 7
  • Page 6473 дециграмм: WARNING: For headword децигра́мм, auto dʲɪt͡sɨˈɡram (dʲɪt͡sɨɡˈram) not same as manual dʲɪt͡sɨˈɡramː (/dʲɪt͡sɨˈɡramː/): insert ː at 12
  • Page 6646 диффамация: WARNING: For headword диффама́ция, auto dʲɪfɐˈmat͡sɨjə not same as manual dʲɪfːɐˈmat͡sɨjə (/dʲɪfːɐˈmat͡sɨjə/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 7594 жужжание: WARNING: For headword жужжа́ние, auto ʐʊˈʐanʲɪjə not same as manual ʐʊˈʐːanʲɪjə (/ʐʊˈʐːanʲɪjə/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 7595 жужжать: WARNING: For headword жужжа́ть, auto ʐʊˈʐatʲ not same as manual ʐʊˈʐːatʲ (/ʐʊˈʐːatʲ/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 8546 идеальный: WARNING: For headword идеа́льный, auto ɪdʲɪˈalʲnɨj not same as manual ɪdʲɪˈalʲnːɨj (/ɪdʲɪˈalʲnːɨj/): insert ː at 9
  • Page 8828 иммигрант: WARNING: For headword иммигра́нт, auto ɪmʲɪˈɡrant (ɪmʲɪɡˈrant) not same as manual ɪmʲːɪˈɡrant (/ɪmʲːɪˈɡrant/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 8829 иммигрантка: WARNING: For headword иммигра́нтка, auto ɪmʲɪˈɡrantkə (ɪmʲɪɡˈrantkə) not same as manual ɪmʲːɪˈɡrantkə (/ɪmʲːɪˈɡrantkə/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 8830 иммиграция: WARNING: For headword иммигра́ция, auto ɪmʲɪˈɡrat͡sɨjə (ɪmʲɪɡˈrat͡sɨjə) not same as manual ɪmʲːɪˈɡrat͡sɨjə (/ɪmʲːɪˈɡrat͡sɨjə/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 8835 иммунодефицит: WARNING: For headword иммунодефици́т, auto ɪmʊnədʲɪfʲɪˈt͡sɨt not same as manual ɪmːʊnədʲɪfʲɪˈsɨt (/ɪmːʊnədʲɪfʲɪˈsɨt/): insert ː at 2, delete t͡ at 12 (NOTE DELETION OF T AT 12)
  • Page 8940 инкассатор: WARNING: For headword инкасса́тор, auto ɪnkɐˈsatər not same as manual ɪnkɐˈsːatər (/ɪnkɐˈsːatər/): insert ː at 6
  • Page 8984 интеллект: WARNING: For headword интелле́кт, auto ɪnʲtʲɪˈlʲekt not same as manual ɪnʲtʲɪˈlʲːekt (/ɪnʲtʲɪˈlʲːekt/): insert ː at 9
  • Page 9095 иррумация: WARNING: For headword иррума́ция, auto ɪrʊˈmat͡sɨjə not same as manual ɪrːʊˈmat͡sɨjə (/ɪrːʊˈmat͡sɨjə/): insert ː at 2
  • Page 9136 искусство: WARNING: For headword иску́сство, auto ɪˈskustvə not same as manual ɪˈskusːtvə (/ɪsˈkusːtvə/): insert ː at 6
  • Page 9269 иттрий: WARNING: For headword и́ттрий, auto ˈitrʲɪj not same as manual ˈitːrʲɪj (/ˈitːrʲɪj/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 9462 каллиграфия: WARNING: For headword каллигра́фия, auto kəlʲɪˈɡrafʲɪjə (kəlʲɪɡˈrafʲɪjə) not same as manual kəlʲːɪˈɡrafʲɪjə (/kəlʲːɪˈɡrafʲɪjə/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 9515 камчатский: WARNING: For headword камча́тский, auto kɐˈmt͡ɕæt͡skʲɪj (kɐmˈt͡ɕæt͡skʲɪj) not same as manual kɐˈmt͡ɕæt͡sːkʲɪj (/kɐmˈt͡ɕætt͡skʲɪj/): insert ː at 11
  • Page 9523 канадский: WARNING: For headword кана́дский, auto kɐˈnat͡skʲɪj not same as manual kɐˈnat͡sːkʲɪj (/kɐˈnatt͡skʲɪj/): insert ː at 8
  • Page 9703 кассирша: WARNING: For headword касси́рша, auto kɐˈsʲirʂə not same as manual kɐˈsʲːirʂə (/kɐˈsʲːirʂə/): insert ː at 5
  • Page 9894 килограмм: WARNING: For headword килогра́мм, auto kʲɪlɐˈɡram (kʲɪlɐɡˈram) not same as manual kʲɪlɐˈɡramː ([kʲɪlɐˈɡramː]): insert ː at 10
  • Page 9915 киноаппарат: WARNING: For headword киноаппара́т, auto kʲɪnɐɐpɐˈrat not same as manual kʲɪnɐɐpːɐˈrat (/kʲɪnəːpːɐˈrat/): insert ː at 7
  • Page 9953 кириллизация: WARNING: For headword кириллиза́ция, auto kʲɪrʲɪlʲɪˈzat͡sɨjə not same as manual kʲɪrʲɪlʲːɪˈzat͡sɨjə (/kʲɪrʲɪlʲːɪˈzat͡sɨjə/): insert ː at 8
  • Page 9955 кириллический: WARNING: For headword кирилли́ческий, auto kʲɪrʲɪˈlʲit͡ɕɪskʲɪj not same as manual kʲɪrʲɪˈlʲːit͡ɕɪkʲɪj (/kʲɪrʲɪˈlʲːit͡ɕɪkʲɪj/): insert ː at 9, delete s at 14 (NOTE DELETION OF S AT 14)
  • Page 10025 класс: WARNING: For headword кла́сс, auto klas (ˈklas) not same as manual klasː (/klasː/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 10025 класс: WARNING: For headword класс, auto klas not same as manual klasː (/klasː/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 10028 классификация: WARNING: For headword классифика́ция, auto kləsʲɪfʲɪˈkat͡sɨjə not same as manual kləsʲːɪfʲɪˈkat͡sɨjə (/kləsʲːɪfʲɪˈkat͡sɨjə/): insert ː at 5
  • Page 10029 классифицировать: WARNING: For headword классифици́ровать, auto kləsʲɪfʲɪˈt͡sɨrəvətʲ not same as manual kləsʲːɪfʲɪˈt͡sɨrəvətʲ (/kləsʲːɪfʲɪˈt͡sɨrəvətʲ/): insert ː at 5
  • Page 10287 коллаж: WARNING: For headword колла́ж, auto kɐˈlaʂ not same as manual kɐˈlːaʂ (/kɐˈlːaʂ/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 10289 коллегия: WARNING: For headword колле́гия, auto kɐˈlʲeɡʲɪjə not same as manual kɐˈlʲːeɡʲɪjə (/kɐˈlʲːeɡʲɪjə/): insert ː at 5
  • Page 10291 коллектив: WARNING: For headword коллекти́в, auto kəlʲɪˈktʲif (kəlʲɪkˈtʲif) not same as manual kəlʲːɪˈktʲif (/kɐlʲːɪkˈtʲif/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 10299 коллекционировать: WARNING: For headword коллекциони́ровать, auto kəlʲɪkt͡sɨɐˈnʲirəvətʲ not same as manual kəlʲːɪkt͡sɨɐˈnʲirəvətʲ (/kəlʲːɪkt͡sɨɐˈnʲɪrəvətʲ/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 10303 коллоквиум: WARNING: For headword колло́квиум, auto kɐˈlokvʲɪʊm not same as manual kɐˈlːokvʲɪʊm (/kɐˈlːokvʲɪʊm/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 10325 колосс: WARNING: For headword коло́сс, auto kɐˈlos not same as manual kɐˈlosː (/kɐˈlosː/): insert ː at 6
  • Page 10327 колоссальный: WARNING: For headword колосса́льный, auto kəlɐˈsalʲnɨj not same as manual kəlɐˈsːalʲnɨj (/kəlɐˈsːalʲnɨj/): insert ː at 6
  • Page 10392 комиссар: WARNING: For headword комисса́р, auto kəmʲɪˈsar not same as manual kəmʲɪˈsːar (/kəmʲɪˈsːar/): insert ː at 7
  • Page 10394 комиссионер: WARNING: For headword комиссионе́р, auto kəmʲɪsʲɪɐˈnʲer not same as manual kəmʲɪsʲːɪɐˈnʲer (/kəmʲɪsʲːɪɐˈnʲer/): insert ː at 7
  • Page 10400 комментатор: WARNING: For headword коммента́тор, auto kəmʲɪˈntatər (kəmʲɪnˈtatər) not same as manual kəmʲːɪˈntatər (/kəmʲːɪnˈtatər/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 10405 коммерческий: WARNING: For headword комме́рческий, auto kɐˈmʲert͡ɕɪskʲɪj not same as manual kɐˈmʲːert͡ɕɪskʲɪj (/kɐˈmʲːert͡ɕɪskʲɪj/): insert ː at 5
  • Page 10410 коммуникация: WARNING: For headword коммуника́ция, auto kəmʊnʲɪˈkat͡sɨjə not same as manual kəmːʊnʲɪˈkat͡sɨjæ (/kəmːʊnʲɪˈkat͡sɨja/): insert ː at 3, replace ə -> æ at 15 (NOTE VOWEL REPLACEMENT AT 15)
  • Page 10411 коммунист: WARNING: For headword коммуни́ст, auto kəmʊˈnʲist not same as manual kəmːʊˈnʲist (/kɘmːʊˈnʲist/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 10412 коммунистический: WARNING: For headword коммунисти́ческий, auto kəmʊnʲɪˈsʲtʲit͡ɕɪskʲɪj not same as manual kəmːʊnʲɪˈsʲtʲit͡ɕɪskʲɪj (/kɘmːʊnʲɪˈstʲit͡ɕɪskʲɪj/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 10413 коммунистка: WARNING: For headword коммуни́стка, auto kəmʊˈnʲistkə not same as manual kəmːʊˈnʲistkə (/kɘmːʊˈnʲistkə/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 10414 коммутатор: WARNING: For headword коммута́тор, auto kəmʊˈtatər not same as manual kəmːʊˈtatər (/kəmːʊˈtatər/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 10415 коммюнике: WARNING: For headword коммюнике́, auto kəmʲʉnʲɪˈkʲe not same as manual kəmʲːʉnʲɪˈkʲe (/kəmʲːʉnʲɪˈkʲe/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 10662 коралл: WARNING: For headword кора́лл, auto kɐˈral not same as manual kɐˈralː (/kɐˈralː/): insert ː at 6
  • Page 10738 корреляция: WARNING: For headword корреля́ция, auto kərʲɪˈlʲæt͡sɨjə not same as manual kərʲːɪˈlʲæt͡sɨjə (/kərʲːɪˈlʲæt͡sɨjə/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 10742 коррумпированный: WARNING: For headword коррумпи́рованный, auto kərʊˈm⁽ʲ⁾pʲirəvən(ː)ɨj (kərʊm⁽ʲ⁾ˈpʲirəvən(ː)ɨj) not same as manual kərːʊˈm⁽ʲ⁾pʲirəvən(ː)ɨj (/kərːʊmʲˈpʲirəvənːɨj/): insert ː at 3
  • Page 10744 коррупция: WARNING: For headword корру́пция, auto kɐˈrupt͡sɨjə not same as manual kɐˈrːupt͡sɨjə (/kɐˈrːupt͡sɨjə/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 10831 коттедж: WARNING: For headword kottɛ́dž, auto kɐˈtɛtʂ not same as manual kɐˈtːɛtʂ (/kɐˈtːɛtʂ/): insert ː at 4 (NOTE MANUAL TRANSLIT)
  • Page 10863 коэффициент: WARNING: For headword коэффицие́нт, auto kəɨfʲɪt͡sɨˈjent not same as manual kəɨfʲːɪt͡sɨˈɛnt (/kəɨfʲːɪtsɨˈɛnt/): insert ː at 5, replace je -> ɛ at 11 (NOTE DEPALATALIZATION AT 11)
  • Page 11022 кристалл: WARNING: For headword криста́лл, auto krʲɪˈstal not same as manual krʲɪˈstalː (/krʲɪsˈtɑlː/): insert ː at 9
  • Page 11043 кровоподтёк: WARNING: For headword кровоподтёк, auto krəvəpɐˈtʲɵk not same as manual krəvəpɐˈtʲːɵk (/krəvəpɐˈtʲːɵk/): insert ː at 10
  • Page 11068 кросс: WARNING: For headword кро́сс, auto kros (ˈkros) not same as manual krosː (/krosː/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 11069 кроссворд: WARNING: For headword кроссво́рд, auto krɐˈsvort (krɐsˈvort) not same as manual krɐˈsːvort (/krɐsːˈvort/): insert ː at 5
  • Page 11070 кроссовка: WARNING: For headword кроссо́вка, auto krɐˈsofkə not same as manual krɐˈsːofkə (/krɐˈsːofkə/): insert ː at 5
  • Page 11412 лакросс: WARNING: For headword лакро́сс, auto lɐˈkros not same as manual lɐˈkrosː (/lɐˈkrosː/): insert ː at 7
  • Page 11688 лёсс: WARNING: For headword лёсс, auto lʲɵs (ˈlʲɵs) not same as manual lʲɵsː (/lʲɵsː/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 12011 лытдыбр: WARNING: For headword лытды́бр, auto lɨˈdɨbr not same as manual lɨˈdːɨb(ə)r (/lɨˈdːɨb(ə)r/): insert ː at 4, insert (ə) at 6 (NOTE SCHWA INSERTION AT 6)
  • Page 12324 маркграф: WARNING: For headword маркгра́ф, auto mɐˈrɡraf (mɐrɡˈraf) not same as manual mɐˈrɡːraf (/mɐrˈɡːraf/): insert ː at 5
  • Page 12378 массаж: WARNING: For headword масса́ж, auto mɐˈsaʂ not same as manual mɐˈsːaʂ (/mɐˈsːaʂ/): insert ː at 4
  • Page 12426 матч: WARNING: For headword ма́тч, auto mat͡ɕ (ˈmat͡ɕ) not same as manual mat͡ɕː (/matt͡ɕ/): insert ː at 5
  • Page 12630 металл: WARNING: For headword мета́лл, auto mʲɪˈtal not same as manual mʲɪˈtalː (/mʲɪˈtalː/): insert ː at 7
  • Page 12631 металлический: WARNING: For headword металли́ческий, auto mʲɪtɐˈlʲit͡ɕɪskʲɪj not same as manual mʲɪtɐˈlʲːit͡ɕɪskʲɪj (/mʲɪtɐˈlʲːit͡ɕɪskʲɪj/): insert ː at 8
  • Page 12666 метонимический: WARNING: For headword метоними́ческий, auto mʲɪtənʲɪˈmʲit͡ɕɪskʲɪj not same as manual mʲɪtənʲɪˈmʲːit͡ɕɪskʲɪj (/mʲɪtənʲɪˈmʲːit͡ɕɪskʲɪj/): insert ː at 11

Various questions[edit]

@Atitarev, Wikitiki89 I have some pronunciation questions; maybe Anatoli or Wikitiki can help as well.

  1. Can you check carefully the entries in Module:ru-pron/testcases down as far as подсти́лка (first 13 entries currently)? In particular:
    1. In хору́гвь, I'm pretty sure that [xɐˈrukfʲ] is correct, but ruwikt writes [xɐˈrugvʲ]. Which one is right?
    2. The module currently prevents final devoicing when the next word begins with an н, as in наря́д на ку́хню (but not when the next word begins with мрл). Hence [nɐˈrʲæd nɐ‿ˈkuxnʲʉ]. Is this correct?
    3. Anatoli added подсти́лка, and writes it [pɐt͡sˈstʲilkə] without any palatal assimilation. I thought there should be such assimilation, as in [pɐtʲ͡sʲˈsʲtʲilkə], and this is how the module is currently coded.
    4. In ко̀е-кто́, I continue to be baffled why ое here ends in -(j)ɪ whereas in моро́женое it ends in -jə. Is there a rule for this or is it just an exception that should be handled by rewriting the {{ru-IPA}} entry? See my comment under кое-как.
    5. In под абази́ном, is the initial ɐ in абази́ном correct even though phonologically it's not at the beginning of a word (because под behaves like a preclitic)?
  2. In Гуйчжо́у and Чжэцзя́н, Anatoli wants to put the stress mark before the affricate, hence [ɡʊjˈd͡ʐʐoʊ] and [d͡ʐʐɨˈdʲ͡zʲzʲæn], whereas I think it should go between the affricate and following fricative, hence [ɡʊjd͡ʐˈʐoʊ] and [d͡ʐʐɨdʲ͡zʲˈzʲæn]. Which is correct? Also, is the assimilation of чж to дж correct?
  3. In льстец, the module currently generates lʲstɛt͡s rather than lʲsʲtʲet͡s, as I'd expect. Similarly, льви́ца becomes lʲvɨt͡sə instead of lʲvʲit͡sə. There's specific code that blocks palatalization by a following front vowel when the syllable begins with a cluster consisting of soft sign + consonant, hence львя́тник, льняно́й, льстить, льди́на, льви́ный are all affected. Is this totally bogus or is there some actual phonological rule involved?
  4. In Асунсьо́н and Вьентья́н, the module currently breaks things as асунс/ьо́н and Вьент/ья́н, whereas I think it might be better to do асун/сьо́н and Вьен/тья́н. I also think that а word like ничья́ should probably be broken ни/чья́ rather than нич/ья́, i.e. [...C/CjV...] and [...V/CjV...] rather than [...CC/jV...] and [...VC/jV...] for V=vowel, C=consonant. What do you think about these two suggestions?
  5. In не всё то зо́лото, should the syllable break be [nʲɪ‿ˈfsʲɵ ...] or [nʲɪ‿fˈsʲɵ ...]? What about от А́ни, should it be [ɐt‿ˈanʲɪ] or [ɐˈt‿anʲɪ]?

Thanks very much for any help you can give. Benwing2 (talk) 13:37, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Point-by-point:
  1. Test cases:
    1. [xɐˈrukfʲ] is correct. Sometimes Russians forget about final devoicing when describing pronunciations because it is an unconscious automatic phenomenon.
    2. Yes, I think that's correct, as long as there isn't even a slight pause in between.
    3. I think there is assimilation, but maybe both variants occur.
    4. I think the rule here is that since кое is such a rare word on its own, people don't subconsciously connect it with the adjectival neuter ending in the set phrases it is used in.
    5. I would say it should be [ə-].
  2. I agree with Anatoli here. There is still a morpheme boundary there, even though the morphemes are completely foreign. Although I have never heard these words spoken.
  3. I agree, that seems totally bogus. Although there is something similar to that in Polish (e.g. źródło).
  4. I agree.
  5. The thing is, common consonant clusters usually congregate at the syllable onset and are not broken up. Thus, [nʲɪ‿ˈfsʲɵ ...], but [ɐˈt‿anʲɪ].
--WikiTiki89 16:00, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
@Benwing2 Hi. Just a quick note that I changed my mind on подсти́лка (podstílka). Cinemantique has already corrected the test case. Sorry, quite busy these days. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 21:37, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Questions about specific words[edit]

@Atitarev, Cinemantique, Wikitiki89 I pushed a new version of Module:ru-pron out. It implements your suggestion of making лл never geminate unless gem=y or gem=opt, and Anatoli's suggestion of making жж and зж always geminate unless gem=n or gem=opt. The following words are pronounced differently as a result:

Gemination no more
  • колли
  • Даллас
  • острове Уоллис и Футуна
  • галлий
  • колледж
  • пять баллов
  • булла
  • валлаби
  • шиншилла
  • тролль
  • Маршалловы Острова
  • австралийский доллар
  • контроллер
  • киллер
  • а капелла
  • ралли
  • триллер
  • Алла
  • вилла
  • идиллия
  • новелла
  • горилла
  • швеллер

Which of these words needs gemination?

Gemination now, but not before
  • вожжа
  • мозжечковая миндалина
  • сожжёшь
  • сожжём
  • сожжёте
  • съезжаться

Which of these words should not have gemination?

Thanks!!!! Benwing2 (talk) 14:58, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Thank you! Benwing2 (talk) 08:06, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

More words where gemination has changed[edit]

@Atitarev, Cinemantique, Wikitiki89

I pushed another round of changes to Module:ru-pron.

1. The following words used to be geminated but are no longer:

  • финн
  • тиранн
  • Бонн
  • гунн
  • алеманн
OK, no gemination for final "нн". --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 11:12, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

2. The following words now have gemination in them (is this correct? They have йе directly after the stress, but maybe we should treat geminated jj like geminated лл, meaning that it remains geminated only with gem=y or gem=opt):

  • Айерс-Рок
  • конвейер
  • колба Эрленмейера
  • скала Айерс
Айерс-Рок =Аерс-Рок
конвейер =конвеер
колба Эрленмейера - optional gemination (gem=opt), just my opinion
same as Айерс-Рок --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 11:12, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

3. The following words have lost gemination:

  • вепсский
  • оргкомитет
вепсский - optional (gem=opt)
оргкомитет = о̀рк-комите́т (morpheme boundary) --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 11:12, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

If these words have gemination, I can change the module appropriately to allow gemination between a consonant and a vowel (it's now restricted to being between vowels).

4. The following words now end in final [-o] when they used to end in final [-ə]:

  • Борне́о
  • Альбире́о
[o] --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 11:12, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

5. The following words used to have [o] in the final syllable but now have [ə]:

  • ха́ос
  • Агри́нион
Tertiary accent for ха́ос (irregular reading), Агри́нион has [-ən] --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 11:12, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

In these last two issues, if they're now wrong, I'll probably have to change the module to get them right.

Thanks for your help. Benwing2 (talk) 08:13, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

  • @Atitarev, Benwing2, Wikitiki89: We have few such words like ха́ос: this one and ма́ори have unstressed [o], but пра́отец has not. Maybe we should use a sign for unstressed [o], for example О (in the middle of word)? It can be useful for other cases like боа́, бомо́нд, etc.--Cinemantique (talk) 10:07, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
Benwing has introduced the symbol for "tertiary accent" in Template:ru-IPA/documentation#Accent_marks, not really an accent but it rids vowels of reductions, makes them pronounced as if they are stressed. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 11:03, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
How to put this symbol? Maybe using double grave would be easier. Also, we can use 'h' instead of 'ɣ' (my dictionary uses it) and 'жь' instead of 'ӂӂ' (it's always geminated?).--Cinemantique (talk) 11:26, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
I agree with using "h" as input (but still [ɣ] as IPA output). But why can't ха́ос just be inputted with a secondary stress ({{ru-IPA|ха́о̀с}})? --WikiTiki89 15:06, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
I don't mind "h" for "ɣ" (but "жь" for "ӂӂ" is wrong, since "жь" is a legitimate combination in Russian and it doesn't gemination or palatalisation.)
To enter, you can save these to your subpages. I personally use a Firefox plug-in (character palette):
“А́”, “а́”, “Е́”, “е́”, “И́”, “и́”, “О́”, “о́”, “У́”, “у́”, “Ы́”, “ы́”, “Э́”, “э́”, “Ю́”, “ю́”, “Я́”, “я́”.
“А̀”, “а̀”, “Ѐ”, “ѐ”, “Ѝ”, “ѝ”, “О̀”, “о̀”, “У̀”, “у̀”, “Ы̀”, “ы̀”, “Э̀”, “э̀”, “Ю̀”, “ю̀”, “Я̀”, “я̀”.
“А̂”, “а̂”, “Е̂”, “е̂”, “И̂”, “и̂”, “О̂”, “о̂”, “У̂”, “у̂”, “Ы̂”, “ы̂”, “Э̂”, “э̂”, “Ю̂”, “ю̂”, “Я̂”, “я̂”.
--Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 06:48, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
Because [o] is unstressed.--Cinemantique (talk) 06:11, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────

@Atitarev, Cinemantique, Wikitiki89 OK, I will allow h as input for [ɣ] and add double-grave as another way of marking "tertiary stress". (For me, on Mac OS, it's easier to type a circumflex accent than a double grave.) I've also added the dot-above accent, e.g. и̇ о̇, as a way of forcing vowel reduction where it otherwise wouldn't occur (e.g. in single-syllable words that aren't recognized as a preposition or particle). I also made it possible to write e.g. и`` in place of и̏, and и` in place of ѝ, and и@ in place of и̇, although this is really ugly. Perhaps a better solution is a template to be substituted with {{subst:.

As for йе, how are the following words pronounced?

  • аллилу́йя
  • ауйяма
  • ва́йя
  • ма́йя
  • папа́йя
  • парано́йя
  • пира́йя
  • ра́йя
  • секво́йя
  • Гава́йи
  • Гава́йев
  • Гава́йям

?

If these are pronounced without /jj/ (or mostly without /jj/), then I'll make /jj/ automatically get degeminated unless gem=y or gem=opt. Benwing2 (talk) 09:14, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

IMO, all cases here where the stress immediately precedes "jj" (and only those), they are geminated. I am guided by my own pronunciation and the gut feeling here, not references. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 06:48, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
Meanwhile, I don't geminate any of them. So I would say we need to find references one way or the other. If not, we could probably say the gemination is optional when following a stressed syllable. --WikiTiki89 19:27, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
Even майя and райя?--Cinemantique (talk) 19:30, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I do not geminate майя and райя. --WikiTiki89 19:41, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
It may be OK to make those optional but Wikitiki89, while you can, of course, comment on Russian pronunciations, you and others should be aware, that your pronunciation is not a typical pronunciation of a native Russian, living in Russia. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 21:21, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
I take that into account every time I comment. This is why I always try to listen to how my parents and grandparents pronounce things. And this is why I always say I'm unsure of something if I am unsure of something. --WikiTiki89 14:36, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Converting ru-decl-noun-z templates[edit]

@Atitarev, Cinemantique, Wikitiki89 Hello Cinemantique ... so far I've been generally leaving alone uses of {{ru-decl-noun-z}}, but since {{ru-noun-table}} now supports pretty much the same Zaliznyak-style specification of arguments, and has some a number of additional features and bug fixes, and since I haven't seen Vitalik around for several months, I'm thinking it makes sense to convert existing uses of {{ru-decl-noun-z}} to use {{ru-noun-table}}. Are you OK with this?

In general, anything that can be expressed as {{ru-decl-noun-z|LEMMA|GENDER-ANIM|STRESS|SPECIAL}} can be expressed equivalently as {{ru-noun-table|STRESS|LEMMA|GENDERSPECIAL|a=ANIM}} where the GENDER and SPECIAL arguments are combined together. The main differences are that {{ru-noun-table}} requires special argument in place of just ё (since that has a different meaning as an old-style declension), and all of the arguments in {{ru-noun-table}} can be omitted, with reasonable default values. Benwing2 (talk) 08:07, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

OK, thanks!--Cinemantique (talk) 06:26, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
All uses converted to {{ru-noun-table}}. Benwing2 (talk) 06:48, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Cases where manual pronunciation has unstressed /o/ that automatic would not have[edit]

@Atitarev, Cinemantique, Wikitiki89 Going back to cases where the manual pronunciation differs from what would be automatically used, the following 28 cases have automatic /ə/ corresponding to manual /o/. Sometimes the manual pronunciation has an extra secondary stress (донкихотский, восточноармянский, воздухоочиститель, налогообложение) or even a primary stress in a different place (e.g. смело) but usually it's just a final unstressed -о that's pronounced /o/ in the manual. Could you help fix up these cases? Keep in mind that if you want the unstressed -о to be pronounced /o/ without any stress marker, use "tertiary stress" i.e. о̂ or о̏. Thanks! Benwing2 (talk) 12:07, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

  • Page 649 Айдахо: WARNING: For headword Айда́хо, auto ɐˈjdaxə (ɐjˈdaxə) not same as manual ɐˈjdaxo (/ɐjˈdaxo/): replace ə -> o at 6
  • Page 887 альбедо: WARNING: For headword альбе́до, auto ɐˈlʲbʲedə (ɐlʲˈbʲedə) not same as manual ɐˈlbʲedo (/ɐlˈbʲedo/): delete ʲ at 3, replace ə -> o at 8
  • Page 3752 вето: WARNING: For headword ве́то, auto ˈvʲetə not same as manual ˈvʲeto (/ˈvʲeto/): replace ə -> o at 5
  • Page 3859 видеоигра: WARNING: For headword видеоигра́, auto vʲɪdʲɪəɪˈɡra (vʲɪdʲɪəɪɡˈra) not same as manual ˌvʲidʲɪoɪˈɡra ([ˌvʲidʲɪoɪɡˈra]): insert ˌ at 0, replace ɪ -> i at 2, replace ə -> o at 6
  • Page 4234 воздухоочиститель: WARNING: For headword воздухоочисти́тель, auto vəzdʊxɐɐt͡ɕɪˈsʲtʲitʲɪlʲ not same as manual ˌvozdʊxɐɐt͡ɕɪˈsʲtʲitʲɪlʲ ([ˌvozdʊxəɐt͡ɕɪˈsʲtʲitʲɪlʲ]): insert ˌ at 0, replace ə -> o at 1
  • Page 4493 восточноармянский: WARNING: For headword восточноармя́нский, auto vəstət͡ɕnɐɐˈrmʲænskʲɪj (vəstət͡ɕnɐɐrˈmʲænskʲɪj) not same as manual vəˌstot͡ɕnɐɐˈrmʲænskʲɪj ([vɐˌstot͡ɕnəɐrˈmʲænskʲɪj]): insert ˌ at 2, replace ə -> o at 4
  • Page 5323 гестапо: WARNING: For headword геста́по, auto ɡʲɪˈstapə not same as manual ɡʲɪˈstapo (/ɡʲɪˈstapo/): replace ə -> o at 8
  • Page 6600 динго: WARNING: For headword ди́нго, auto ˈdʲinɡə not same as manual ˈdʲinɡo (/ˈdʲinɡo/): replace ə -> o at 6
  • Page 6617 диско: WARNING: For headword ди́ско, auto ˈdʲiskə not same as manual dʲɪˈsko (/dʲɪˈsko/): delete ˈ at 0, replace i -> ɪˈ at 3, replace ə -> o at 6
  • Page 6869 донкихотский: WARNING: For headword донкихо́тский, auto dənkʲɪˈxot͡skʲɪj not same as manual ˌdonkʲɪˈxot͡skʲɪj ([ˌdonkʲɪˈxotskʲɪj]): insert ˌ at 0, replace ə -> o at 1
  • Page 8571 идо: WARNING: For headword и́до, auto ˈidə not same as manual ˈido ([ˈido]): replace ə -> o at 3
  • Page 9702 каско: WARNING: For headword ка́ско, auto ˈkaskə not same as manual ˈkasko (/ˈkasko/): replace ə -> o at 5
  • Page 10326 Колорадо: WARNING: For headword Колора́до, auto kəlɐˈradə not same as manual kəlɐˈrado (/kəlɐˈrado/): replace ə -> o at 8
  • Page 11706 либидо: WARNING: For headword либи́до, auto lʲɪˈbʲidə not same as manual lʲɪˈbʲido (/lʲɪˈbʲido/): replace ə -> o at 8
  • Page 12262 манго: WARNING: For headword ма́нго, auto ˈmanɡə not same as manual ˈmanɡo (/ˈmanɡo/): replace ə -> o at 5
  • Page 13634 налогообложение: WARNING: For headword налогообложе́ние, auto nələɡɐɐblɐˈʐɛnʲɪjə not same as manual nəˌloɡɐɐblɐˈʐɛnʲɪjə ([nɐˌloɡəːblɐˈʐɛnʲɪjə]): insert ˌ at 2, replace ə -> o at 3
  • Page 21338 саго: WARNING: For headword са́го, auto ˈsaɡə not same as manual ˈsaɡo (/ˈsaɡo/): replace ə -> o at 4
  • Page 21379 сальто: WARNING: For headword са́льто, auto ˈsalʲtə not same as manual ˈsalʲto (/ˈsalʲto/): replace ə -> o at 6
  • Page 21395 самбо: WARNING: For headword са́мбо, auto ˈsambə not same as manual ˈsambo (/ˈsambo/): replace ə -> o at 5
  • Page 22542 смело: WARNING: For headword сме́ло, auto ˈsmʲelə not same as manual smʲeˈlo ([smʲɛˈlo]): delete ˈ at 0, insert ˈ at 5, replace ə -> o at 6
  • Page 22979 сорго: WARNING: For headword со́рго, auto ˈsorɡə not same as manual ˈsorɡo (/ˈsorɡo/): replace ə -> o at 5
  • Page 24086 танго: WARNING: For headword та́нго, auto ˈtanɡə not same as manual ˈtanɡo (/ˈtanɡo/): replace ə -> o at 5
  • Page 24354 техно: WARNING: For headword те́хно, auto ˈtʲexnə not same as manual ˈtʲexno (/ˈtʲexno/): replace ə -> o at 6
  • Page 24584 торпедо: WARNING: For headword торпе́до, auto tɐˈrpʲedə (tɐrˈpʲedə) not same as manual tɐˈrpʲedo (/tɐrˈpʲedo/): replace ə -> o at 8
  • Page 26048 фламинго: WARNING: For headword флами́нго, auto flɐˈmʲinɡə not same as manual flɐˈmʲinɡo (/flɐˈmʲinɡo/): replace ə -> o at 9
  • Page 27778 эмбарго: WARNING: For headword эмба́рго, auto ɨˈmbarɡə (ɨmˈbarɡə) not same as manual ɨˈmbarɡo (/ɨmˈbarɡo/): replace ə -> o at 7
  • Page 28113 Ямато: WARNING: For headword Яма́то, auto (j)ɪˈmatə not same as manual jɐˈmato ([jɐˈmato]): delete ( at 0, replace )ɪ -> ɐ at 2, replace ə -> o at 8
  • Page 4464 смело: WARNING: For headword сме́ло, auto ˈsmʲelə not same as manual smʲeˈlo ([smʲɛˈlo]): delete ˈ at 0, insert ˈ at 5, replace ə -> o at 6
@Benwing2 Done. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 22:01, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
@Atitarev Thank you!!! Benwing2 (talk) 08:02, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Possible errors in imperatives of 4a вы- etc. verbs in ruwikt[edit]

The following appear to be wrong in ruwikt, or at least they contradict Zaliznyak:

  • высушить: ruwikt has высушь, высушьте while Z. indicates высуши, высушите
  • выучить: ruwikt has выучь, выучьте while Z. indicates выучи, выучите
  • выправить: According to Z this is [(3)], so it should have выправь/выправи, выправьте but ruwikt has only выправь, выправьте
  • таращиться: According to Z this is [(3)] as above, but ruwikt has only таращься, таращьтесь

Can you verify whether these are wrong in ruwikt or in Zaliznyak? Benwing2 (talk) 06:15, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

  • That was mistakes in ruwikt. I've corrected them. Thanks!--Cinemantique (talk) 09:21, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

вира[edit]

Hi, Cinemantique. In one place in вира, you have it marked as the genitive singular of вир (vir). Is вир (vir) a Russian word? I don't know that word. —Stephen (Talk) 16:05, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Can you please explain why you removed a reference to 643.2 at красноречивый?[edit]

I can very easily read word "красноречивый" beneath "§ 643. Суффикс -лив­. Прилагательные с суф. ­лив-/-ив­ (фонемат. |л’ив|/|ив|)"

Не могли бы объяснить причину удаления ссылки на параграф 643.2 на странице красноречивый?

Я могу с легкостью прочитать "красноречивый" под "§ 643. Суффикс -лив­. Прилагательные с суф. ­лив-/-ив­ (фонемат. |л’ив|/|ив|)" 15:13, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

@D1gggg «Русская грамматика» не является авторитетным источником в области этимологии, этот труд вообще не посвящён этимологии. Окончания не являются словообразовательным средством, не нужно представлять их таким образом.--Cinemantique (talk) 15:46, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Can you please explain why you removed a reference to 1193 at полвторого?[edit]

"я пришёл к полвторо́му" - is very literate both verbally and on the letter. What makes you think otherwise?

Не могли бы объяснить причину удаления ссылки на параграф 1193 на странице полвторого?

"я пришёл к полвторо́му" - более чем грамотно как устно так и письменно. Что вас заставляет вас думать иначе? d1g (talk) 15:21, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

  • @D1gggg Это нелитературная форма, смотреть здесь и здесь.--Cinemantique (talk) 15:43, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
    • @Cinemantique и что теперь?
    • 1. Разговорная речь и табуированные слова это часть языка. Помечайте как colloquial.
    • 2. Лично я знаю носителей языка, которые используют "я пришёл к полвторо́му" и "придти к полвторо́му" как минимум устно.
    • 3. не кажется ли вам, что отсутсвие записей в других словарях абсолютно не значит что именно этой формой слова пользуются или не пользуются устно?
    • В свете 2. и 3. ваши обоснования удалений (сомнительным сайтом udarenieru.ru) ставят под вопрос ваш подход к составлению словарей устной речи. d1g (talk) 15:53, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
      • На сайте udarenieru.ru размещён авторитетный словарь Зализняка. Вы внесли форму полвторому без всяких помет, вводя в заблуждение о статусе этой формы. Я не против вернуть её с соответствующим указанием.--Cinemantique (talk) 16:00, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
        • Где объяснение неавторитетности РГ, зачем ссылки на неё трогать? РГ отражал большой процент использования языка, хотя бы часть людей всё ещё будет говорить используя ненормативные формы по инерции.
        • "без всяких помет" - было предупреждение про падежи, можно было туда приписать про нерекомендуемость Залязником. Помет полно нехватает и на более важных страницах: вводи и описывай.
        • Можете написать в "Usage notes" что согласно авторитетному словарю "использования ..." быть не должно.
        • Вы же настойчиво удаляете разговорные использвания прикрываясь теперь Залязником.
        • 1. Информация о остутсвие записей в словере Зализняка дожно быть отмечена в Usage notes. Это, кстати, не значит кстати что Зализняк высказывался явно против такой формы.
        • 2. Форму верну на основании знаний от настоящих ностелей языка
        • 3. Вопросы про разговорную речь вы проигнорировали, а разговорная и текущая речь включается WT:CFI
          • 2017 "К полтретьему мы были в конторе и вручили флэшки и использованные ISBN 5425087349
          • 2016 Скрой свои чувства
          • тысячи результатов по интернету - достаточно много для такой разговорности
        • d1g (talk) 16:37, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
          • И тем не менее эта форма нелитературная, просторечная (это не я решил, и не вам решать). А вы подаёте её как нормативную. Вообще, вам бы следовало в данном случае ставить ссылку на РГ-80 (а не в разделе этимологии).--Cinemantique (talk) 16:48, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
            • "вы подаёте её как нормативную" - прекратите это! Я никогда такого не говорил:
            • 1. она испольузется 2. она ненормативна
            • 3. ссылку на РГ-80 опять же удаляли вы, а не думали куда её пристроить (потому что там очень явно говориться что такое использование - допустимо). 16:53, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
              • Спокойствие, только спокойствие. Форму я внёс. Её присутствие без помет равносильно высказыванию, что все формы равноправны.--Cinemantique (talk) 16:56, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
                • Если что-то находится недавно в Google books или в интернете, то удаляя - только вредить, словарь неполный будет. Даже устаревающие использования не удаляются, а меняются на "dated" или "archaic".
                • Ссылки на РГ не сносите пожалуйста они в голове всё систематизируют у обучающихся языку либо показывают какую главу нужно читать целиком. В usage notes всегда найдется место для одной сноски. d1g (talk) 17:10, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Please join discussion![edit]

You seem to engage in edit war at полвторого instead of discussion at your talk page.

I highly suggest to discuss things at your talk page.

@Cinemantique, your uncooperative, anti-wiki style forced me to leave ru.wiktionary.org. Don't repeat that here. d1g (talk) 15:27, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

@D1gggg: You are the one who is acting uncooperatively. If you continue with this behavior, your a well on your way to getting blocked. --WikiTiki89 15:44, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
@Wikitiki89, nah, I'm not that into it.
I will give a month to Cinemantique to answer why he is removing references. d1g (talk) 15:47, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
@D1gggg: You're not in a position to be issuing ultimatums to other editors. --WikiTiki89 15:57, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Seriously! Stop edits at main space![edit]

I would like to know whom and why thinks ГР as unreliable source of suffixes and morphemes. Did you know that ГР-80/05 is the only normative work about morphology? (good/bad is a secondary question) I don't understand why you arguing morphology reference.

Я абсолютно серьёзно говорю вам прекратить правки!

Я хочу чтобы вы объяснили почему ссылки на ГН не являются источником информации о морфемах и суффиксах. Вы в курсе что это издания РГ это единственная работа которая может считаться эталонной? (плохой или хорошей это вротостепенный вопрос) Я не опнимаю почему вы оспаиваете руководство по морфологии.


d1g (talk) 15:44, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

  • Вот и используйте его при описании морфологии. Этимология тут при чём?--Cinemantique (talk) 15:54, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
    • 1. Суффикс -ив- есть в слове красноречивый или нет?
    • 2. Куда следует размещать эту информацию как не рядом с etymology?
    • 3. Их что, было запрещено узкаывать в разделе etymology? d1g (talk) 16:13, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
      • 1. Да. 2. Нигде. Здесь не описываются морфемика и (обычно) синхронное словообразование. 3. Там нужно указывать источники по этимологии. Что я и сделал (правда, без сноски).--Cinemantique (talk) 16:24, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
        • Повторю по-русски:
          • 1. где в правилах было написано что разбор морфологи из Etymology нужно всегда сносить (это вы настаивали на удалении морфологии, я - рядом оставлял и то и то)
          • 2. "Вот и используйте его при описании морфологии" и "Нигде" как увязываются? d1g (talk) 16:41, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
  • Вы собираетесь заполнять раздел этимологии, руководствуясь РГ-80? Пожалуйста, прекратите! Вы наделаете кучу ошибок, потому что этимология и синхронное словообразование — две разные вещи. Их результаты могут совпадать, а могут и различаться, и это нормально.--Cinemantique (talk) 17:08, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
    • Вы пытаетесь оппонета услышать? Я не наделаю ошибок в суффиксах потому что правила говорят какие суфиксы и в каком слове.
    • Морфология встречалась и редко, не считаю это поводом не улучшить информацию по составу слов.
    • Вас спрашивают: куда морфологию указывать? Ваш ответ: "Вот и используйте его при описании морфологии"
    • Вас спрашивают: почему указанную морфологию с источниками удаляется без замен? Ваш ответ: "Нигде", "прекратите! Вы наделаете кучу ошибок; этимология и синхронное словообразование — две разные вещи"
    • Будьте серьёзны. d1g (talk) 17:19, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
      • Как это не наделаете? Вот, пожалуйста, ошибка. И почему вы опять указываете окончание как суффикс? Я могу понять ваше недовольство записью «-тельный», и тем не менее -ый — это не суффикс и не словообразовательный формант.--Cinemantique (talk) 17:25, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
        • Не уводите тему на личности и не приписывайте мне идиотских поступков.
        • -ый как флексийный морф я создал сегодня. Уж окончания от суффиксов я отличу.
        • В удалённых правках я говорил что -ый это inflection (inflexion).
        • Попробуйте в 4 раз ответить, возможно у вас получится:
          • 1. Где указывать информацию по морфологии?
          • 2. Почему информацая по морфологии удалялась без замен? На основе каких соглашений? 17:34, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
  • Вот это ваша версия статьи? Категория «Russian adjectives suffixed with -ый» вами добавлена или Котом-в-сапогах? Морфология — это часть речи, словоизменение. Где это описывается? В разделах Noun, Declension и т. п. Если вы о морфемике, то она тут, насколько я знаю, не описывается.--Cinemantique (talk) 17:42, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
    • Я про ту часть грамматики, которая описывает морфы, стемы: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphology_(linguistics) - какие нюансы возникают в русскоязычной терминологии это дело десятое.
    • Russian adjectives suffixed with -ый это недоработка шаблона, его научить инфинитивы определять от суффиксов.
    • Умышленно -ый как суффикс в этом слове я бы с роду не ввёл
    • Кроме "adjectives suffixed with -ый" какие ещё проблемы были?
    • Мне казать что этимологию указывают шаблонами Template:borrowing и Template:m
    • Поэтому я affix и стал использовать для разборов, а не этимологии.
    • Приписыванием незаконченного разбора (благотворить|-тельн-|-ый) как этимологии это вы занимаетесь битый час.
    • Пятый раз: какие причины не указывать морфологию рядом с этимологией? d1g (talk) 18:00, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
      • А почему не в Noun или Synonyms? Только потому, что в Etymology упоминаются морфемы? Но я вам в пятый раз повторяю: этимология и словообразование — это две различные науки. Может, вам Гугл бандеролью прислать?--Cinemantique (talk) 18:08, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
        • Вас всё ещё пытаются воспринимать серьёзно.
        • Что словообразование вводили в Ety это даже вы сами сказали.
        • 7 раз соглашение на неввод словообразования вместе с этимологиями покажете? d1g (talk) 18:18, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
          • А я вас уже всерьёз не воспринимаю. Вашу персону, кстати, обсуждают на форуме. Может, там и решат заблокировать вас.--Cinemantique (talk) 18:29, 19 April 2017 (UTC)