User talk:Dick Laurent/Archive 2008

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Happy New Year! When you have a moment, could you please add Romanian translations to the entry for hinder? Do watch out for edit conflicts, though, since I'm asking several folks for help with this. --EncycloPetey 20:01, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Hungarian entries[edit]

One thing you haven't done on the entries you've created is to mark the stress in the pronunciation. This is easy to do, since the stress is always on the first syllable. --EncycloPetey 21:21, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

...Damn. I've never heard of such an easy thing. I'll get it from now on. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 21:23, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
That's the wrong character. It should be as I've set it in házzal‎. --EncycloPetey 21:25, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Although I normally get all kinds of insane about accuracy, visually there's very little difference, so if we can't even get people to use ɹ instead of r, there's no way I'm going to make it a point to use ˈ instead of '. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 21:29, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
There's a great deal of visual difference in some browsers and platforms. They're also different character sets. I agree with you about the r issue, but for stress, we need to be consistent, since there are folks looking to develop software that "reads" the IPA. --EncycloPetey 21:31, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
I really think it's more important to be consistent with ɹ at least, but I do understand. I'll try to remember it when I'm not in a rush or doing something special, but I can't promise I'll remember it every time. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 21:33, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Possible simple fix[edit]

Ah! There's a wrinkle in the way you coded Template:hu-noun-1. Hungarian consonant doubling doesn't work the way you expect. For monograph consonants like z, or l it's fine, but the consonant sz doubles as ssz and the consonant ny doubles as nny. In other words, digraph consonants typically double the first "letter" in the digraph. This may require a separate template of its own. --EncycloPetey 21:16, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Dammit, I wasn't thinking about those. I'm not sure, though... I don't really know enough about Hungarian nouns to know how many templates there will need to be, what the variables are... I guess I could have 1 be the stem and 2 be the stem for those two forms. I guess I'll get it figured out at some point. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 21:41, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
I think I have a simple and elegant solution for this. What if, instead of having the arguments as:
you had:
So that for rész, you would use:
The third argument would be the regular single-consonant ending, and the second "doubling" argument would only appear when the stem consonant doubles. (This particular example will take a different set of endings, but I couldn't easily locate an example just like ház that ended in a digraph. :P) --EncycloPetey 22:42, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
I just wish there were an easier way to do it... I was thinking there could just be 2 arguments still, one for the full stem and one for the last letter of it, but then it wouldn't always be in the right place. Romanian is so much easier to work out templates for :p — [ ric ] opiaterein — 02:06, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Wiktionary:About Hungarian[edit]

FYI, this page now exists. --EncycloPetey 00:40, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not really sure what I'll use it for, but I guess...looking at it might help. :) — [ ric ] opiaterein — 02:06, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

IPA chars[edit]

The IPA folks no longer advocate the use of those consonantal digraph characters; they prefer combinations of individual characters now, as of the 2005 revision. --EncycloPetey 17:18, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

That sounds horrible to me. "tʃ" is a solid sound. This news crushes a part of my soul. lol — [ ric ] opiaterein — 17:20, 12 January 2008 (UTC)


What is the lang paramater in {{IPA}} supposed to do? --Keene 22:58, 12 January 2008 (UTC)


Should be working again now, small bug magnified out of proportion by Opera, unusual for a normally stable and sane browser. I would have noticed, but my personal javascript turned off the broken site javascript. Conrad.Irwin 21:58, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

You're my hero :) This post brought to you by Opera — [ ric ] opiaterein — 23:58, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


Sorry. You did the right thing deleting this entry. I'm a little unhappy with the speed of deletions. Sometimes a bad entry could be viewed as a request for entry and may be a better request than what is on the request page. DCDuring TALK 16:05, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I usually don't delete anything unless it's unused (templates, categories, whatever) or obviously garbage. Otherwise I leave it alone for someone more decisive to handle :) I understand where you're coming from, though. It irritates me when people mark badly formatted but completely valid entries for speedy deletion. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 16:31, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
I should have looked at the delete log which had enough to suggest the hopelessness of the entry. You can delete that kind of thing any time as far as I am concerned. DCDuring TALK 17:23, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Adding translations requests indiscriminately?[edit]

To me it looks quite arbitrary the numerous translations requests which you added to pornographer. But I realize of course you may have had a reason which is not fully apparent. Could you comment? __meco 13:21, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

At some point in the future, the goal is to have complete translation tables for all words, with all languages, and I request translations that I can't find myself so I can continue adding words I want to know in languages in which I'm interested, and in which I think others are most likely to be interested.
So I really don't see any problem. Is there a reason that the translation table for pornographer should not include translations in those languages? — [ ric ] opiaterein — 13:45, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
The problem is, as I see it, that this is a completely unnecessary exercise which basically creates a lot of useless code, noise. It lies in our mandate that we want translations of all words into all languages. This is something every person involved in creating this oevre is aware of. Adding a request because you are specifically looking for it, or because you have a particular sentiment about the immediate importance that these translations should be prioritized, I believe are commendable grounds for doing so. Just adding a great number of requests for a random entry, as I still have the impression that you have done — even after you have provided your rationale for doing this — I believe is a bad idea. I think it is ultimately demoralizing to ask people to do things when any other thing they might come up with to do of their own initiative would be at least as valuable.
Having written the above, I feel that p e r h a p s I'm being too judgmental on you, however, I am ambivalent as to how I shall perceive this. Therefore I add an erasure to parts of. But I'm not prepared to retract it fully. __meco 07:49, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
__meco 07:49, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't add trreqs to any old random words. I add them because I want to know the words (for certain languages) and because I want to be able to add the entries (for all the languages). Pornographer happens to be a word I like, and I want to be able to add articles for translations of it. I don't stop and add 12 trreqs to every article I stop at. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 13:22, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
I suppose that reassures me about the rationality of your edit. I appreciate your forthcomingness. __meco 13:36, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
I also find numerous trreqs noisy, even annoying. Couldn't they be placed among ttbc's as in e.g. hamlet, or if that is not good enough, as their own table like the "Requests for translation"? Hekaheka 06:01, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
That'd be a better topic for the Beer parlour. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 06:07, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


I had understood that the piped links belong to translation lists, not headers. Hekaheka 05:32, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I'd personally rather see all of them linked in all cases, but I'd always seen them linked in translation lists and headers, which makes sense to me anyway. Why link one and not the other? — [ ric ] opiaterein — 05:48, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Catalan past participles[edit]

Thanks for the reply. So cantada, cantades and cantats are always used as adjectives, then. In French, as you may know, we say "les femmes que j'ai recontrées" (the women that I met), where rencontrées is used as a feminine plural past participle (because femmes is a direct object, and femmes is a feminine plural word. I've found Complement directe, which seems to say they have a similar system (I may be wrong). Is this not used in Catalan, then? How do you say "the women that I met"? Thanks in advance. --Keene 08:58, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

My French isn't so great, but then neither is my Catalan. It doesn't look like Complement directe says anything about past participles. It looks like you've already asked Physchim62, so we should have it all cleared up soon :) — [ ric ] opiaterein — 13:34, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

dative of[edit]

Instead of using {{dative of}} and similar templates, wouldn't it make more sense to use the flexible template {{inflection of}}? It does all that all the other various templates do. --EncycloPetey 22:49, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

The {{inflection of}} template gets on my nerves, somehow. Also, the "x of" templates could just be edited to use the 'inflection of' template. {inflection of|dat|s|}, y'know. Anyway, I like those specific little form-of templates. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 22:54, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Lithuanian etyms[edit]

I forgot to mention Derksen's Baltic inherited lexicon that seems to be well-updated place for PIE etymons of Baltic languages and their cognates. Entry for vyras also lists *u̯iHró- (= *wiHró-). Just watch out for those combining diacritics for indicating stress and use proper acute marks on vowels and don't forget to select the "UTF-8" radio button on "Change viewing parameters" page. You can use {{rfscript}} for placing check request for cognates in other branches you'd possibly want to list in =Etymology= sections for others to check them and possibly fix them (e.g. for Ancient Greek, Sanskrit, OCS, Gothic, Hittite..). Have fun ^_^ --Ivan Štambuk 15:48, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

If I can figure out how to use this place, I'll probably start including etymologies in lt entries, but what would really be awesome is if I could find a place that lists IPA transcriptions of Lithuanian words. That'd make my week. :) — [ ric ] opiaterein — 15:55, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Redirecting to {{inflection of}}[edit]

Your redirecting a bunch of CaseName_plural_of to {{inflection of}} definitely makes some sense, but appears to have screwed up when CaseName_plural_of templates were passed a wikified article name (e.g. {{locative plural of|[[blahblah]]}}. I suggest you figure out where the problem is or revert those, because otherwise those inflected form stubs won't be appearing in total entry count (article must have at least one wikified entry to be counted). Cheers --Ivan Štambuk 13:29, 14 March 2008 (UTC)


The plural form is "pornografowie". I added the Polish definition. Maro 18:29, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


This word has been on RFC for some time, and I was wondering if you'd be willing to take a look at it. Thanks. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 22:34, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Keenebot to attack Romanian conjugations?[edit]

Hi Opiaterein. I've been hunting around for some new languages for my bot (User:Keenebot2) to attack, and generally those shortlisted languages which have in place decent workable templates (Portuguese, Catalan, Norwegian, possibly Czech) don't have any native-speakers or decent-speakers, regulars or admins to ask about them. However, Romanian has one (you), and what look like really good usable conjugation templates. Is Template:ro-conj-a a completed, ready-to-use template? Would you be willing to check (thouroughly) a couple of test runs if Keenebot2 were to auto-generate a couple of verbs, to begin with from Template:ro-conj-a, and possibly later the others in Category:Romanian conjugation templates? Keene2 18:42, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Bonus question: Is there a Romanian verb here which already has all its conjugated forms correctly added? Keene2 18:44, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
I dunno if you're going to like this response as much as you were hoping, I can be a picky bastard when it comes to my Romanian :\ I don't like the idea of having bots add Romanian entries because I like to have pronunciations included from the start. I like adding entries that are full to begin with a lot more than editing them to fill them up, so going in to add pronunciations later is a pain in the ass to me for some reason, which means it probably won't get done because I'm difficult. But I dunno. As useful as I think bots are for some things, a lot of the time I just don't trust them. They'll only do what you tell them to, and they do it. They won't let you know if they think they're making a mistake with something, while a human will still be able to notice they're making a mistake. (They don't always notice it, but it's still possible.) Also if you really do make a mistake telling them what to do, they just multiply the hell out of it.
Unless I got sidetracked in the middle of fixing all the templates, everything in Category:Romanian conjugation templates should be working fine. Don't forget, though, that I set them up to be able to handle even minor irregularities (like if only one form is different from what it would normally be) so I don't know if that changes anything.
How about a bot that cleans up all those damn Spanish verb form entries? Somebody got a little too into that. :s
Bonus question answer: forma, fute, face, iubi, sodomiza, mânca, proteja, masturba, veşteji, fi, vorbi and şantaja I believe all have all their forms added. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 12:30, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the answers and links. I've taken your advice and put in a pronunciation section to my offline Romanian verb conjugation templates. The template for -a-ez verbs is found at User:Keene/ro.txt/a-ez. Does this look like something the bot could do? All I did to create that was copy exactly the lay out for all conjugated forms of şantaja, replacing "şantaj" with "!", and the pronunciation stem with "£". Before I trial run the bot on a new Romanian verb, could you have a look through and check they're fine? Keene2 13:06, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
I'll try to look through it now and get back to you in a second, but remember that I've never done this kind of bot work so it might take me a minute to get what I'm looking at in some cases. lol — [ ric ] opiaterein — 13:20, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
God, I'm glad you picked -ez verbs. If this works out, you should go for -esc verbs next :p But anyway, most of the changes I made were minor formatting stuff that I may or may not have done differently before ^^ Should be ready for ya. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 13:24, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
First Romanian run completed, using soma as the base. Temporarily available for your reading ease at Special:Contributions/Keenebot2. Keene2 13:40, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Didn't see anything wrong with any of those. Looks clear — [ ric ] opiaterein — 13:53, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Except right here lol — [ ric ] opiaterein — 13:54, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks! Been fixed! One last thing - where can I get Romanian pronunciations from, so I don't have to tag {{rfp}} to Romanian words missing the pron section? Keene2 14:07, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
If the infinitive entry doesn't have it, there are only a couple things you really have to know: The alphabet is phonetic, so the pronunciation is always reflected by the spelling. Dipthongs are the only thing you really have to worry about. Another thing is the stress, which in the cases of -ez verbs should always be the same as the infinitive. So for these, as long as the infinitive entry has the pronunciation, you should be set. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 14:28, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks - although it may be a phonetic alphabet, I don't think I'll tackle Romanians pronunciations for now - getting out of my depth there. I'll hunt around for some new Romanian templates to work with, but feel free to feed the bot with anything, as these bot things save a hell of a lot of time. Keene2 14:42, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Trust me man, if you're really out of your depth with Romanian pronunciation, you're out of your depth in any language. Romanian pronunciation has to be the easiest I've ever seen. It might take time to get used to, but it's really quite simple. If you can handle French, I'm sure you can handle Romanian :p — [ ric ] opiaterein — 14:45, 5 April 2008 (UTC)


Semper edits the Italian entry grazia, which I see in the RC. In turn, I realize that Latin grātia does not list descendants, and the descendants don't have the macron in the etymology. You notice the edit to graţie, and rush to add more content to the short entry. Oh, how I love Wiktionary! I can't ever recall experiencing such a cascade of good edits to multiple articles on Wikipedia. --EncycloPetey 16:31, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I tend to do that whenever something in my watchlist has been edited... so it helps that I have about four and a half thousand pages in my watchlist. :D — [ ric ] opiaterein — 16:37, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Hmm.. I don't even have 600. --EncycloPetey 16:40, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Everything I create goes in there automatically.... But I generally tend to remove stuff that's from languages I'm not too familiar with. So pretty much everything I've ever made in Romanian is still chillin' there. :) But I basically do it so I can do what I did with graţie, to improve on the stuff I didn't do perfectly earlier. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 16:42, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Good grief - I've got 29 entries in my watchlist! SemperBlotto 22:03, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm particularly territorial. I like knowing when my work has been edited. :D Sometimes, people change it from being right to being wrong, aswell. I don't like that. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 22:19, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
I just got 3 in my watchlist. one of them's not yet created (it's a perfectly valid entry, but I've got a bet with myself that it'll not be created on Wiktionary before I die) Keene 22:08, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Lithuanian participles[edit]

What does dalyvis mean? SemperBlotto 22:01, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

It's the name of the class of participles. There's also padalyvis, pusdalyvis and būdinys. But since each class has more participles underneath it... it's really difficult to give them English names. I've never seen them, at least. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 22:06, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Actualy dalyvis just means "1. participant 2. participle". The word būdvardis/būdvardinis means "adjective", so presumably būdinys means a participle functioning as an adjective. The prefix pus- means "half", so I'm not sure how pusdalyvis would translate. --EncycloPetey 02:47, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Ah! found a bit more. A padalyvis is an indeclinable participle, but functions like an active voice gerund; there are two subclasses, one fromed from the present and one from the past. The pusdalyvis (literally "semi-participle") is a partly declinable participle, that also functions like an active voice gerund. There again appear to be two subcategories, but the distinction here isn't clear in my references. The remaining eight categories of participles are fully declinable (4 active and 4 passive). --EncycloPetey 03:01, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
There are actually only 3 passives; the past frequentative tense doesn't have a passive form. You can see all the -base- forms there are at sapnuoti. It might take me a while, but if you really want me to explain what they all do, I can try. I'm not familiar with all of their functions yet, but I know enough to find out easily. But I can tell you that the participles basically don't do what you'd expect them to. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 11:11, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
My grammar lists four passive declining forms. The fourth is termed the "participle of necessity", which (as you note) does not match with the frequentative). My grammars note what they do, it's just the difference between the two semi-participles that isn't clear. --EncycloPetey 13:57, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Here we go
  • dalyvis [1] Atneškite man tą greitai einantį katiną. Bring me that quickly walking cat.
  • pusdalyvis [2] Jonas dainuodamas eina. Jonas goes while singing.
  • padalyvis [3] Jonui dainuojant, Mantas klauso. While Jonas is singing, Mantas is listening.
  • būdinys [4] Jonas bėgte bėga. Jonas runs (as runners should run; very quickly).
— [ ric ] opiaterein — 15:06, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


Couls you create an entry for this verb "to feel" (and link it from feel)? The root is a major vocabulary word in LAtin, as are its descendants in their respective languages, so I'd like to see an entry for it. --EncycloPetey 03:07, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Simti isn't a Romanian word, unfortunately. Fortunately, simţi is, and feel just fell victim to some butthole's laze or poor spelling :D Thanks for bringing it up, though, it could use an upgrade. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 12:16, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Somewhere at home I have a list of the top (50? 200?) Latin verbs in Classical usage. Do you think we could get a group of Romance language editors together to clean up each one and its descendants? Perhaps doing one per day (but possibly allowing longer for some of the more complicated verbs)? --EncycloPetey 18:03, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
I suppose it's possible, but I'm not really all that talkative amongst editors, so I don't know that many others in particular, except Physchim62 who does Catalan, and Keene who does French. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 03:43, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Well, Keene is banned from Wiktionary, so I guess that gives just one. But, SemperBlotto does Italian and there are some other French editors. Bequw and others can do some Spanish. That gives us six key languages, which is pretty good. I'll see about setting up some sort of project page in my userspace. --EncycloPetey 18:01, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I've started a project page at User:EncycloPetey/Latin verbs. I plan to select (or have someone select) one or two new verbs each week. The table at the top of the page will list the current as well as past and upcoming selections. The current selection will also be highlighted in the tables on the page. If you could invite Physchim62 to participate in doing Catalan, whom I do not know, I can ask the others. --EncycloPetey 06:01, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

It bothers me that I can't find out why Keene was banned. I like knowing these kinds of things. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 13:09, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
Have you looked at the last of his Contributions? He left a hidden message in the edits revealing that he was Wonderfool. He also deleted the Main Page and blocked several high-profile users without cause. --EncycloPetey 17:41, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
There's two names he gives after Keene. Maybe this one is another facet of Wonderfoolery? :D — [ ric ] opiaterein — 19:21, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Romanian uncategorized[edit]

These entries showed up in Mutatnte's ctegrorization cleanup list. Thought you might like to check them: fericirea fierbinte fulg insulã. --EncycloPetey 13:27, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Mutante seems to have developed a complete list of uncategorized Romanian pages here:[5], though the indexing may still be in progress. --EncycloPetey 13:50, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Pizdos. Lol... should've seen that one coming. I'll see what I can do about this stuff. :) — [ ric ] opiaterein — 14:12, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Two more Romanian[edit]

These two entries need some cleanup and categories: fântână puţ. Could you help? --EncycloPetey 01:27, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

All done. :) — [ ric ] opiaterein — 18:12, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Moldovan language...[edit]

Please do not add "moldovan" words anymore. Ит'с лике ъритинг енглиш лике тхис фор романиан. Moldovan Cyrilic alphabet is history. It was Stallin's invention. It may be is still used in Transnistria, but that's without people's will.


Hey, I never knew you knew Armenian. I don't suppose you'd be interested in giving Category:Articles which need Armenian script a look, would you? Also, if you know of a nice free online Armenian dictionary, I'd love to get a link. I do need to get up to hy-1 at some point (although I doubt I'll get past that). Many thanks. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 18:06, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Do the Pimsleur course, it should help :) I wish I could find more online resources for Armenian, but it's rather difficult... I'll see what I can do, though. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 20:40, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
If you can't read Armenian script (and I can't), then I recommend Thomas Samuelian's Armenian Dictionary in Transliteration (Hippocrene Books, 1992) ISBN 0-7818-0207-5. It's not ideal and covers a somewhat limited vocabulary, but does translate both directions, orders the Armenian by transliteration, and gives the Armenian script for the word as well. --EncycloPetey 20:32, 6 July 2008 (UTC)


Hi Opiaterein,

Just so you know, {{ro-noun-voc}} seems to be broken — it results in gibberish at the two pages that use it (proastă and ipocrit).

Do you remember, by any chance, what the story is with it?

RuakhTALK 19:20, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Must've been something I was fucking with and forgot about... oh well, we can live without it ^_^ *delete* — [ ric ] opiaterein — 01:35, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
Well, that works. Thanks! :-) —RuakhTALK 22:14, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
Any time :) — [ ric ] opiaterein — 12:44, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Greek noun forms[edit]

Hey, I guess this isn't extremely important, but I notice a bit of a difference in our templates for Greek noun forms.

For example, in κουνελιού, I used a different template to the more lengthy one that you used in αινίγματα. The difference I suppose is that the template you used indicates if it's a plural (even though that piece of info is in the definition).

Well, I'm not sure if I should start using the template you used or not. What do you recommend? I will have no problem using the template for new pages (or changing old ones, though it might be a little laborious, haha).

Thanks! AndyPandy 09:09, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Ah, there doesn't actually appear to be any technical reason to use {{infl}}... I used it because I thought that the el-noun-form templates didn't automatically add the category, because I'd always seen them added manually. So basically, the only thing you should remember is that when you use the el-noun-form templates, you won't have to put [[Category:Greek noun forms]] at the end, because the template does it for ya. :) — [ ric ] opiaterein — 14:31, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Okay, thanks a lot for that! I added [[Category:Greek noun forms]] as a precautionary step, but I now realise that it's simply an unnecessary addition. I also have one more question. When I am adding a transliteration/romanisation of a Greek word, I tend to follow this page: WT:AEL#Romanisation, which seems to indicate that transliteration of Greek words are more character based than phonetic based. Example, for κλειδί, the transliteration is klidí whereas I would have put it as kleidí. I'm starting to wonder if I'm just getting confused over semantics, but I figured it's probably worth asking about. AndyPandy 20:02, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure what the wiktionary standard is, but I personally use transilerations that reflect the phonetic values of the word, because I think they're more useful for learning the new alphabet. I include IPA pronunciations, but not everyone can read those, so someone who is a beginner in Greek (or whatever else) will be helped more by transilerations that reflect the sounds, rather than 'equivalents' for letters, whereas a more advanced speaker won't need to worry about the transilerations at all. But this is just the way I do it :) — [ ric ] opiaterein — 22:45, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


This template is up for deletion at Wiktionary:Requests_for_deletion/Others. Because of the title, you cannot link to it.......but I imagine you'll find it anyway. I figured since you created the template, you should be informed, in case there is something we missed. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 09:52, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Armenian transcription[edit]

I've added the requested characters. Conrad hasn't been around much lately. --EncycloPetey 19:09, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


I've reverted you. Switching from tr= to {{{1}}} means that you broke all the old pages. All the pages that used tr= would no longer display a transcription, because named parameters are never treated as unnamed ones. --EncycloPetey 17:07, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

What you could do instead is set up a personal default Edittools that allows you to enter {{hy-noun|tr=}} with the click of a button. --EncycloPetey 17:08, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Why not use {{{1}}} for the plural? The tr= is set to be consistent among the various non-Latin script templates. Having one template different from all the others would lead to frustration. --EncycloPetey 17:10, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Because 1, 2, 3 is easier than 1, tr, and ptr or whatever the transileration of the plural would be. I think the el-noun template is the same, but I have these memory problems, so even having used it, I seem to have forgotten. Heh. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 17:14, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Personally, I wouldn't think the plural should be transliterated, but you do realize that tr= does not count as of of the 1, 2, 3? So if tr= comes before or after, it will not affect the numbering of the other parameters. The plural (and its translit.) could be 1 & 2, leaving tr= for the transliteration of the entry. --EncycloPetey 17:19, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
I like the linear set-up of el-noun and how you don't have to worry about the order ever changing. 1, 2 3 is easier for me, at least, than named parameters. Especially when I go back and fix them later. I like things to have a place. An easy place... lol. At any rate, all the entries that use hy-noun have been 1-ized. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 17:23, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Rollback of Catalan "ser" etymology[edit]

Hi, Ric. I noticed your rollback ([6]) of the etymology of ser. Ther's no note on the contributor's talk page, so I'm not sure I understand the reason for the rollback. Was the Vulgar Latin step not actually part of the etymology? Rod (A. Smith) 15:28, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I think I was just being too hasty and got confused about the changes I saw... Sorry about that :o — [ ric ] opiaterein — 15:36, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Ah. Understood. RC patrol is quite a challenge when it includes all words in all languages. :-) I'll revert the rollback, then. Cheers! Rod (A. Smith) 16:03, 4 September 2008 (UTC)


Why de-link? If you dislike redlinks in these tables (as I aslo do), there's a bit of code that can be added to turn redlinks in a table black. We use it in the Galician templates and I've been using it more in the Latin ones as well. Just include class="inflection-table" to blacken links, but keep the links active. --EncycloPetey 22:34, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

{{hy-decl-noun}} is just for the look of the table. I put links into the real declension templates, since some declensions have two different forms for certain cases, so...yeah. :) — [ ric ] opiaterein — 22:54, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
OK. I didn't realize hy was one of the languages with a 2-tier inflection template. --EncycloPetey 22:56, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
I prefer the 2-tier system because it lets me have one template that has the formatting, so that in the specific templates all I have to worry about is the inflection. It makes life easier for me — [ ric ] opiaterein — 22:58, 4 September 2008 (UTC)


This template puts Romanian given names into the "ro:Female/Male given names" categories, which are being replaced by "Romanian male/female given names" categories. Could you fix it - because I don't understand a thing about templates? --Makaokalani 15:14, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

I've corrected the template to use "Category:Romanian masculine/feminine names". --EncycloPetey 17:01, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Lithuanian accents[edit]

Hey :D

Are you sure you're getting Lithuanian circumflex/acute accents correctly in IPA phonetic transcription? Shouldn't notation like [ǎ] and [â] be more appropriate then mere stress indicators? --Ivan Štambuk 00:51, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

My Lithuanian references don't use accents on IPA transcriptions for vowels. Length markers, yes, but not any sort of diacriticals. Granted, the tone on long stressed vowels is marked in the dictionary forms of words, but I haven't seen it marked in IPA transcriptions. --EncycloPetey 00:57, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
Well, so far we have:
  • circumflex tone in vãkar transcribed as [ˈvakɐɾ]
  • acute tone in várpa transcribed as [ˈʋarpɐ]
I.e. exactly the same way, though they're pronounced differently (as rising/falling tone). I don't know really much of IPA, but I was thinking that it should be somehow marked in IPA phonetic transcription, since it is pronounced differently. In West South Slavic languages the abovementioned IPA notation with caron/circumflex is usually used.. --Ivan Štambuk 01:08, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
I haven't had to deal much with tonal transcription, so I'm not sure what to suggest. Neither have I heard much Lithuanian; most of what little I know is from written texts. On a quick hunt though some pages at the Lithuanian Wiktionary, I didn't find any the had a pronunciation given, so that's unlikely to be very helpful either. Neither do I find anything mentioning tone in the Wikipedia articles on the language (en or lt). --EncycloPetey 01:16, 27 November 2008 (UTC)