User talk:Mölli-Möllerö

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Enjoy your stay at Wiktionary! Ultimateria (talk) 15:17, 14 September 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

kääntää (ympäri) edukseen[edit]

In merging two essentially identical senses of the verb turn around, I had to merge two differing Finnish translations. Could you review that what I did was good enough, or else repair the damage?  --Lambiam 08:21, 20 March 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Hahaha... no relation. It is nice to see entries expand in unexpected ways. Equinox 19:47, 15 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello. You seem to imply that the conjugation listed in informal. Would you be able to expand on that? Pious Eterino (talk) 14:00, 11 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

User:Surjection wrote in 13:36, 4 January 2020‎ edit summary [bold added by me, obviosly]: "has to be marked as irreg due to the 1st infinitive being irregular; might as well use slang inflection forms". These are the slang inflection forms according to the regular colloquial Finnish / Helsinki slang morphology. In standard Finnish verbs aren't conjugated like this. If this word were adopted into Standard Finnish, its base form would be körata and the conjugation would be as follows:
Inflection of Mölli-Möllerö (Kotus type 73/salata, no gradation)
indicative mood
present tense perfect
person positive negative person positive negative
1st sing. köraan en köraa 1st sing. olen körannut en ole körannut
2nd sing. köraat et köraa 2nd sing. olet körannut et ole körannut
3rd sing. köraa ei köraa 3rd sing. on körannut ei ole körannut
1st plur. köraamme emme köraa 1st plur. olemme köranneet emme ole köranneet
2nd plur. köraatte ette köraa 2nd plur. olette köranneet ette ole köranneet
3rd plur. köraavat eivät köraa 3rd plur. ovat köranneet eivät ole köranneet
passive körataan ei körata passive on körattu ei ole körattu
past tense pluperfect
person positive negative person positive negative
1st sing. körasin en körannut 1st sing. olin körannut en ollut körannut
2nd sing. körasit et körannut 2nd sing. olit körannut et ollut körannut
3rd sing. körasi ei körannut 3rd sing. oli körannut ei ollut körannut
1st plur. körasimme emme köranneet 1st plur. olimme köranneet emme olleet köranneet
2nd plur. körasitte ette köranneet 2nd plur. olitte köranneet ette olleet köranneet
3rd plur. körasivat eivät köranneet 3rd plur. olivat köranneet eivät olleet köranneet
passive körattiin ei körattu passive oli körattu ei ollut körattu
conditional mood
present perfect
person positive negative person positive negative
1st sing. köraisin en köraisi 1st sing. olisin körannut en olisi körannut
2nd sing. köraisit et köraisi 2nd sing. olisit körannut et olisi körannut
3rd sing. köraisi ei köraisi 3rd sing. olisi körannut ei olisi körannut
1st plur. köraisimme emme köraisi 1st plur. olisimme köranneet emme olisi köranneet
2nd plur. köraisitte ette köraisi 2nd plur. olisitte köranneet ette olisi köranneet
3rd plur. köraisivat eivät köraisi 3rd plur. olisivat köranneet eivät olisi köranneet
passive körattaisiin ei körattaisi passive olisi körattu ei olisi körattu
imperative mood
present perfect
person positive negative person positive negative
1st sing. 1st sing.
2nd sing. köraa älä köraa 2nd sing. ole körannut älä ole körannut
3rd sing. köratkoon älköön köratko 3rd sing. olkoon körannut älköön olko körannut
1st plur. köratkaamme älkäämme köratko 1st plur. olkaamme köranneet älkäämme olko köranneet
2nd plur. köratkaa älkää köratko 2nd plur. olkaa köranneet älkää olko köranneet
3rd plur. köratkoot älkööt köratko 3rd plur. olkoot köranneet älkööt olko köranneet
passive körattakoon älköön körattako passive olkoon körattu älköön olko körattu
potential mood
present perfect
person positive negative person positive negative
1st sing. körannen en köranne 1st sing. lienen körannut en liene körannut
2nd sing. körannet et köranne 2nd sing. lienet körannut et liene körannut
3rd sing. körannee ei köranne 3rd sing. lienee körannut ei liene körannut
1st plur. körannemme emme köranne 1st plur. lienemme köranneet emme liene köranneet
2nd plur. körannette ette köranne 2nd plur. lienette köranneet ette liene köranneet
3rd plur. körannevat eivät köranne 3rd plur. lienevät köranneet eivät liene köranneet
passive körattaneen ei körattane passive lienee körattu ei liene körattu
Nominal forms
infinitives participles
active passive active passive
1st körata present köraava körattava
long 1st1
Possessive forms
Person sing. plur.
1st köratakseni körataksemme
2nd körataksesi körataksenne
3rd köratakseen
past körannut körattu
2nd inessive2 köratessa körattaessa agent3 köraama
Possessive forms
Person sing. plur.
1st köratessani köratessamme
2nd köratessasi köratessanne
3rd köratessaan
negative köraamaton
instructive köraten 1) Used only with a possessive suffix.

2) Usually with a possessive suffix (active only).
3) Usually with a possessive suffix. Does not exist in the case of intransitive verbs. Do not confuse with nouns formed with the -ma suffix or the third infinitives.
4) Identical in form to the -minen verbal nouns, but used differently (more details).

3rd inessive köraamassa
elative köraamasta
illative köraamaan
adessive köraamalla
abessive köraamatta
instructive köraaman körattaman
4th4 nominative köraaminen
partitive köraamista
Possessive forms
Person sing. plur.
1st köraamaisillani köraamaisillamme
2nd köraamaisillasi köraamaisillanne
3rd köraamaisillaan
However, all salata-type verbs are conjugated like this (with consonant gradation and vowel harmony taking place) in the spoken variety of the Helsinki region, even if they are not slang verbs in the first place. Mölli-Möllerö (talk) 14:39, 11 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I mean, conjugated like köraa in the table on the page. More or less, someone might disagree on a form or two, as it's not a standardized variety. Mölli-Möllerö (talk) 14:41, 11 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Thanks for the swift explanation. I personally can't really understand what you mean, but I'm not learning Finnish. Feel free to add something relevant to the page köraa (or to revert my edit!) Pious Eterino (talk) 14:45, 11 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Spoken Finnish differs a lot from the Finnish taught at schools. One of the many differences is that whenever a third person singular past tense of a verb ends in a vowel followed by -si in Standard Finnish, the -i at the end is dropped. Thus when in Standard Finnish one writes salasi ("s/he encrypted") it becomes salas in spoken Finnish (both Helsinki slang and the nonslang vernacular variety spoken around Helsinki). Helsinki slang is morphologically more or less identical to the aforementioned nonslang version of colloquial Finnish but has words such as köraa which are not used in other Finnish varieties. That "informal" in the conjugation was there to inform the reader that the morphology is also from slang, not just the word itself, and thus the third person past is listed as köras instead of körasi which would be expected in the standard variety (in which this particular word is not used). Mölli-Möllerö (talk) 14:53, 11 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Heyo, about this edit, I thought you might want to have some background on Ingrian:

Right now, the work I'm doing is adding as much verification to entries as possible, since there is quite some doubt on the validity of Chernyavskij's work. Since quotations are not only used to support attestation, but also to display usage, quotations like this are useful, and since the quote concerns a 30's literary language, which as of yet only seems to support the form hiiri (with final -i), and since Nirvi (which is considered the major work on Ingrian) also supports the -i form - not to mention the fact that the book quoted also contains the nominative form - it can be safely assumed that the form is an inflection of hiiri rather than hiir.

The reason why I or anyone else is not (yet) moving the entry to hiiri, making hiir an alternative form is the fact that while it may not be reliable, Chernyavskij's teach-yourself is the most used source for Ingrian on wiktionary, and so until further consensus on the validity of his book the entries stay at his forms, making it a de facto standard orthography.

That said, if you would like to help with Ingrian, I'd be more than happy to get you started :) Thadh (talk) 19:57, 12 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

In that case, feel free to undo my edit - or alternatively you could create the entry hiirt and put the quotation there. Mölli-Möllerö (talk) 09:23, 13 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

tiedosto inflection[edit]

As much as KSK thinks the word has inflection class 2, it's easy to see that in practice, the -iden, -ita forms are basically not used; as an example, tiedostoiden gets ~300 ghits (the first one of which is Wiktionary!), while tiedostojen gets over a million. Wiktionary is ultimately a descriptive dictionary, so we should be reflecting actual use. — surjection??⟩ 11:52, 10 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

...and tekstitiedostojen gets ~2700 ghits, tekstitiedostoiden gets 4. — surjection??⟩ 11:55, 10 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yeah, it is really bizarre that Kotus accepts both. Maybe a new declension table is needed for -sto nouns, saying that those forms are very rare but acceptable according to Kotus. Another more extreme example is näköistiedosto as "näköistiedostoiden", "näköistiedostoitten" and "näköistiedostoita" all get one hit, namely that Wiktionary page, whereas "näköistiedostojen" and "näköistiedostoja" get a bit less than 800 hits each. Mölli-Möllerö (talk) 20:36, 10 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
poliisi is an example of a page that deviates from the inflection type given by Kotus. It's by no means a crime to do so, so I suggest tekstitiedosto be reverted back to the valo type. (If we do add a note, it should be in tiedosto or even in -sto... where a note already exists.) — surjection??⟩ 01:07, 11 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Done, I also changed the declension of näköistiedosto and expanded the note at -sto. Mölli-Möllerö (talk) 10:02, 11 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Hey, kirjoitan tänne kun suomenkieliseen versioon en voi. Olet estänyt IP:n (2001:999:0:0:0:0:0:0/32) enkä pääse luomaan tunnusta fi-wiktionaryyn. Voisitko muuttaa estoa niin, että se mahdollistaa tunnuksen luonnin, tai poistaa sen vaikka päiväksi? Thanks. --Daleq (talk) 15:05, 20 May 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Tunnuksesi ("Daleq") pitäisi toimia fiwiktissäkin. Voit varmaan alkaa muokkaamaan sillä. Mölli-Möllerö (talk) 15:30, 20 May 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Muokkaisin kyllä mutta jostain syystä ei toimi... Loin tunnuksen siis aikoinaan en-wikipediassa ja kun eri wikiprojektit on "synkronisoitu" niin käsittääkseni tunnuksen pitäisi toimia kaikissa wikiprojekteissa ja kieliversioissa, mutta ilmeisesti on niin, että koska olet estänyt tästä IP-avaruudesta muokkaukset ja tunnuksen luonnin, niin tunnustani ei ole luotu fi-wiktionaryyn? Ainakin täällä näkyy että tunnusta ei ole rekisteröity sinne. Sinänsä järjestelmä on hyvä, koska kuka tahansa voisi kiertää estoa luomalla vain tunnuksen toisessa kieliversiossa ja palata vandalisoimaan suomi-versiota, mutta sitten käy näin ettei rehellisetkään pääse muokkaamaan... Tein siis tämän tunnuksen jo kuukausia sitten enkä ole aiemmin käynyt fi-wiktionaryssa. Esim. sv-wiktionary ja en-wiktionary toimii normaalisti. Kun yritän kirjautua fi-wiktionaryyn (muihin kieliversioihin olen kirjautunut automaattisesti), tulee vain teksti "Näyttää siltä, että tämänhetkisessä istunnossasi on jokin ongelma". EDIT: kävin vielä äsken testaamassa no-wiktionaryssa, kun menin sinne niin tunnukseni luotiin automaattisesti, ks. loki ja ilmeisesti juuri tämä estyy fi-wiktionaryssa koska tunnuksen luonti estetty tästä IP-avaruudesta. Jos estoa voisi lieventää tuon tunnuksen luonnin osalta niin auttaisi varmaan. --Daleq (talk) 16:12, 20 May 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Eston asetukset muutettu sellaisiksi, että tunnusten luonti sallitaan. Muutan takaisin, kun teet ensimmäisen muokkauksesi tai kun 24 h on kulunut. Mölli-Möllerö (talk) 18:20, 20 May 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]