User talk:Myndfrea

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There was a bug.[edit]

It's fixed now. You can edit your sandbox again. -- Liliana 11:48, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

  • Thanks. Myndfrea (talk) 13:06, 24 July 2013 (UTC)


I'm wondering why you are adding the genitive forms to Old Norse entries. There is already a declension table, so it seems kind of redundant. And why the genitive? —CodeCat 12:10, 2i6 July 2013 (UTC)

  • Well, it was on one of the pages I edited in the first place, so I kinda thought of that as a norm. Myndfrea (talk) 12:12, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Plus, it seems like genitive singular is preset on Icelandic noun-templates as default. Myndfrea (talk) 12:19, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
    • There aren't really any norms for Old Norse yet. But in general, when a full declension table is given in an entry, common practice is not to display those same inflections in the headword line, because it is kind of redundant then. However, for some languages, knowing one or two of the extra forms lets you easily predict the rest of the forms, these forms are called "principal parts" and you can list them in the headword line like we do for Latin entries. Maybe that's why Old Norse entries listed the genitive in that way; the previous editors may have copied the practice from Latin, without knowing what it was for. In any case, I don't know if Old Norse nouns have any principal parts, and whether any of them would be the genitive singular form. I know that verbs do have principal parts, and we list them for Icelandic already too. In any case, for Old Norse noun entries you should probably use {{non-noun}}, which is customised specifically for Old Norse usage. It does include parameters for genitive and plural, but again I am not sure if they are principal parts. I've raised the question at WT:ID. —CodeCat 12:30, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
  • I fixed up the headword-line templates that are currently available for Old Norse: Category:Old Norse headword-line templates. I also added them to all entries that didn't use them yet, so now those templates should be present wherever they can. I asked about the principal parts and BigDom said that genitive and plural are the most usual principal parts for Old Norse, so I left them in the template. —CodeCat 20:00, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
    • Thanks, although, as you said, having both these two forms and a declension table indeed is a bit redundant. Still, as these two forms are principal, I guess they are to be added. Myndfrea (talk) 20:17, 26 July 2013 (UTC)


I think this table is too wide. It probably won't fit on most people's screens. I think it would be better to put the third-person forms below the other forms. —CodeCat 15:54, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

  • Or maybe reverse the axes - so person goes down instead of across. SemperBlotto (talk) 15:58, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
    • Well, here is how others have it: tables [1] or [2].Myndfrea (talk) 16:05, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
      • Those tables list singular, dual and plural on separate rows, so that's why it takes up less space there. From what I can tell, the Wikipedia table was based on the other one too. {{sl-decl-ppron}} is kind of similar, as is {{sla-decl-ppron}}. But they don't list the third-person forms because they inflect just like adjectives and all other pronouns. That is, they distinguish gender, which the first/second person and reflexive forms don't. —CodeCat 16:20, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
        • I changed the table based on the Icelandic variant, listing the numbers below instead of across. Myndfrea (talk) 16:58, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Old Norse for FWOTD[edit]

Hey! I notice you're methodically going through the Völuspá. Good job! I'm getting some Old Norse words to feature as Foreign Word of the Day, and I'm wondering if you could add a pronunciation or two (IPA or audio) to some of the words, if you know it - pronunciation is a requirement for featured words, and I don't know enough to do it myself. I've nominated mold, viðr, íviðja and unnr so far - but if you know of any other interesting words, we'd be happy to have more nominations here. Cheers! Hyarmendacil (talk) 09:20, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

  • I've tried searching for some IPA instructions on Old Norse, but I couldn't find much about that. I don't really know how would these words be properly sounded. As for citations, I will add some. Myndfrea (talk) 10:57, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
Ok. I might ask User:CodeCat if she knows. By the way, I presume you're doing the translation (at your sandbox) yourself? If so, would you mind if I used for Old Norse citations? - otherwise I have to look up another public-domain translation, and/or work it out myself. Hyarmendacil (talk) 07:31, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
Well, you can use this translation, but I'm not sure whether it is exactly accurate (since so many of these words' meanings are uncertain and/or metaphoric), plus, it certainly doesn't preserve the alliterative verse of the original. Myndfrea (talk) 07:38, 10 August 2013 (UTC)


I think you're confusing two words here. *hwaz (> hvar) and *hwarjaz (> hverr with two rs) are separate words with their own inflections and meanings. Also, the first is a pronoun (stands alone) while the second is a determiner (modifies words). —CodeCat 12:39, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

  • Well, they merged in the end. I noticed the difference, but it's not easy to separate the forms, especially of oblique cases. Myndfrea (talk) 12:58, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
    • As far as I can tell, the forms inherited from *hwarjaz are just strong adjective forms. All the remaining ones are from *hwaz it seems. Except for hvern, that one is a bit strange. —CodeCat 13:09, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
      • I edited the table a bit, but I'm still not quite sure about the feminine forms. Please check it and correct if needed.Myndfrea (talk) 13:43, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
        • I think it would be better to make two tables and show them together. One table to show the regular strong adjective forms inherited from *hwarjaz, and the other with the singular forms inherited from *hwaz. —CodeCat 13:56, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
          • I've made a table for hvar but I'm still not sure about whether it's correct or not. There aren't many sources on that matter, and they all differ. Myndfrea (talk) 16:12, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Why are you putting Old Norse entries into English categories?[edit]

Like morginn, undorn, nið, hof, which I fixed. But there are probably more. —CodeCat 15:51, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

  • Oh, I have forgotten to put the parameter. But there aren't any other entries like that left, I've checked. Sorry. Myndfrea (talk) 16:10, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
    • I think the way the parameters work on {{etyl}} is very counterintuitive. In the past, we had a lot more templates that would assume the language is English, and still quite a few do. But I'm hoping we can move away from that gradually. —CodeCat 16:12, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
  • P.S. {{context}} also requires lang=, just so you know. I have cleanup up all so far. Hyarmendacil (talk) 03:29, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Descendants of garðr[edit]

Why did you remove gardîn? --Njardarlogar (talk) 12:04, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

  • Did I now? Oh, sorry about that. But, come to think about it, it doesn't come directly from Old Norse, but through Old Northern French. I mean, indirect descendants aren't usually listed. Myndfrea (talk) 15:52, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
Would they not be listed under the direct descendants (e.g. like this?) --Njardarlogar (talk) 18:19, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
I guess they would. But if we take gardîn back, we have to list these direct descendants (Old Northern French and Vulgar Latin in this case). Isn't that right? Myndfrea (talk) 18:42, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
Plus, gardîn isn't listed as a descendant of garðr, but rather of Frankish gart, along with other words in Romance languages. Ergo, a question arises – what exactly was gardîn derived from? Myndfrea (talk) 05:17, 19 October 2013 (UTC)