User talk:Paul G/2008

Open requests at Wiktionary:Changing username

Hello, mine is one of several open requests currently at Wiktionary:Changing username. If you have a moment please have a look. Thanks. Jerry lavoie 03:20, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Organic radicals (translation to Italian)

Paul, radicals in organic chemistry (see methyl as an example) are treated only as nouns, even in terms such as methyl alcohol. But in Italian there is both a noun and adjective form (metile and metilico). I have included both in the translation table for methyl - do you think this is OK (before I do any more)? Jeff SemperBlotto 08:58, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Well spotted. Yes, I think this useful and fine as you have done it, but don't forget to use {{italbrac| }} around "attributive" rather than roman text. I would suggest using either "attributively" or "attributive form" rather than "attributive" for greater clarity. — Paul G 09:02, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Changing username

I have a request at Wiktionary:Changing username that I've been waiting to actually get done. Could you do this for me? —Zachary ^talk 16:35, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Awaiting admins

We have a couple of folks who were recently voted in as admins, but have not yet had the flag set. So, if you feel like doing that, I'm sure they'd appreciate it. Atelaes 20:40, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

n-year-old

Italian has words (e.g. dodicenne) for eleven-year-old to sixteen-year-old (same for adjective and noun), but I'm unsure of hyphenation or spaces in English. What do you think? SemperBlotto 14:19, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi Jeff,

The English adjective is certainly hyphenated, because it is the prepositive form of the phrase "n years old": "a child that is eleven years old" → "an eleven-year-old child". I am inclined to think that the noun is an absolute use of the adjective; hence the hyphenation is the same: "an eleven-year-old" = "an eleven-year-old child" (or horse, or whatever). I think this has to be right. Consider the following:

• I heard your one-year-old can talk. (= I heard that your child, who is one year old, can talk)
• I heard your one year-old can talk. (= I heard that your only child, who is a year old, can talk)
• I heard your one year old can talk. (Ambiguous and hard to parse; could even mean "I heard your tin, which is one year old, talk")

So I think hyphenation must be right for both the adjective and the noun.

— Paul G 08:00, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Participation request

Since this is an issue that you have commented on before, I would like to invite you to cast a vote on IPA for English r. DAVilla 00:47, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Phonemic vs. phonetic transcriptions

Hi, Paul. I posted a follow-up comment to your vote at Wiktionary:Votes/2008-01/IPA for English r, but I thought I'd drop you a line here in case that page is not on your watch list. I hope eventually to clear up a very common misunderstanding about the use of IPA for transcriptions. There are two very different types of transcription that use IPA. One is phonetic (where [r], [ʀ], and [ɹ] have the usually-understood meaning, each indicating a distinct sound). The other is phonemic transcription, which is indicated by slashes (where no language distinguishes between /r/, */ʀ/, and */ɹ/, so /r/ is unambiguous). Phonemic transcription does not distinguish between the sounds that two speakers make when they pronounce a given word. It does not distinguish between the sounds in pairs of languages. Rather, it encodes a word into a series of language-specific phonemes and represents each such phoneme by a consistent, unambiguous symbol that can only be interpreted using pronunciation roles for the language of the transcribed word. Phonemic transcription requires much more planning than phonetic transcription, because it's important to start by identifying all of the phonemes in the given language and selecting symbols for them. One nice pay-off is that speakers of multiple accents and dialects can interpret a phonemic transcription by reading a chart that shows well-known words transcribed with those phoneme symbols. Rod (A. Smith) 17:12, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Appendix: Animals

Hi, Thought that you might want to add herd as the term for a group of reindeer (I'm afraid of messing up your table, if I try to do it on my own). That is the only term I have ever seen. For curiosity, I checked "reindeer band" in Google but found only musical groups and references to Santa's reindeer band. Hekaheka 06:24, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Hello, again. I visited the Taronga zoo in Sydney, and there they used the word "army" of a group of frogs. Army gets support on many websites, and WikiAnswers also mentions knot and colony. Regards, Hekaheka 05:07, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Rename request

Hello SemperBlotto, I saw you are one of the most active bureaucrats on this project so that is why I write here (too). To complete my global-login/SUL only the account of Romaine (0 edits) is one I would like to usurp. Can you help me with my request? Thanks! Greetings - 84.30.175.153 14:33, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I wasn't logged in, request was made by me: NL-Romaine 14:35, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

SUL - changing username

Hi there are some requests at Wiktionary:Changing username awaiting some bureaucrats attention. Maybe you could have a look at them?

Regards, Nux. —This unsigned comment was added by 84.10.144.250 (talk • contribs) at 22:02, 6 July 2008 (UTC).

I came here to ask the same thing when I saw that you usurped the account Daniel Polansky, but left the other requests alone, which was not exactly kind of you (preferential treatment?). Dvortygirl usually handles CHU requests, but I think she's on vacation: she hasn't been active for over 3 weeks. I asked Semperblotto if he wanted to do them, but he did not reply. Is it really that much work? Cheers, Face zz 11:47, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Never mind. Dvortygirl came back and took care of it. Cheers, Face 07:48, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Latin/Roman

Please see the ongoing conversation at Wiktionary:Grease_pit#name_and_order_of_scripts_in_Serbian_translations. --EncycloPetey 17:26, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Hello. Thank you for that. I was unaware that we had agreed on this. Noted for future reference. — Paul G 06:11, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

massify, countify

Hi,

I reverted your edits to [[massify]] and [[countify]], since I think with quotations it makes sense to respect the original typesetting with this sort of thing. The full stop is not very useful, and the italics on “and” were probably a mistake, but I don't think it's a good idea to start injecting our judgment into quotation formatting that way.

Just my 2¢; if you disagree, revert back and I won't press the issue.

—Ruakh_TALK 03:34, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Absolutely, I agree that we should stick to the original formatting of the quotation. The simple solution to show that errors in quotations are in the original quotation and are not ours is of course to insert [sic]. — Paul G 09:44, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Be my guest. :-)   We even have a template for that: {{SIC}} → ^[sic]. —Ruakh_TALK 10:38, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

sfioccare

Hello Paul. Some time ago (years?) we had a discussion about a process or machine related to carding (I have forgotten the details). Anyway - I have just come across sfioccare, which De Mauro defines as "ridurre una fibra tessile in fiocchi per prepararla alla cardatura". I have looked at the Wikipedia article on carding, and can't find any process that fits this description. Any ideas? SemperBlotto 11:25, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

• Ah, looking at the context again, it is actually sfioccarsi - to flake. Cheers Jeff. SemperBlotto 11:35, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Bot username rename

Hi, I'd like my bot User:Computer to be renamed to User:タチコマ robot. This rename request is per my wikimedia wide bot username rename. I have decided to have a single username to more efficiently use SUL. Thanks.

• If this is not the right place to make this request, please move it to the right place.

I'd also like my own username User:Cool Cat to be renamed to User:White Cat. I own the White Cat SUL username and this is the only wiki where I have a leftover account. I requested this before but due to a bug SUL didn't allow the rename. Now that is fixed.

-- Cat ^chi? 19:14, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

sottoponibile

Hi Paul. I'm not convinced that I have got exactly the right translation for this. It isn't in any of my dictionaries, but there is lots of usage out there. SemperBlotto 09:15, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Not I word I've come across before, but I think "amenable (to)" is good, while "subject (to)" might be a better second translation.

Consider the follwoing Google hits:

• "Di contro alla seconda ipotesi - datore di lavoro non sottoponibile, o non più sottoponibile, a procedura concorsuale..."
• "...byte che è sottoponibile a operazioni di lettura..."
• "Quel libro non sottoponibile a interpretazioni..."

I think "subject to" would work as a translation in these cases. — Paul G 10:01, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

UPDATE: "Sottoponibile" is not in my Italian dictionary nor in wordreference.com. Both sources have both "to subject" and "to submit", so "subject to" is definitely good for "sottoponibile". "Amenable (to)" I'm not sure about. The example in my dictionary for the second sense is "sottoporre qualcosa a qualcuno/all'attenzione di qualcuno", translated as to submit/put something to someone, but does "submissible" have that sense in English? — Paul G 06:28, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

butcher's

Hi paul. I just added beccheria (regional variant of macelleria) and noticed that the later links to butcher (with an added 's). Do you think we should have entries for butcher's (the shop), along with all the others? SemperBlotto 10:26, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Hi Jeff. Quite possibly... If we do, I think this might be a British usage only (or maybe a Commonwealth usage). The slippery-slope argument does not apply because if we should include "butcher's" then we should include "baker's", "greengrocer's", etc. I don't think there are that many of these, anyway - largely these terms are restricted to traditional trades, so we won't have "mobile phone salesman's" or anything like that. I think this is worth discussing in the beer parlour — do you want to start a thread there? — Paul G 16:20, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

OK - I might push for candlestick maker's. SemperBlotto 16:25, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Wikimedia UK Chapter

A plan is in the works to found a new UK chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation, and we are currently gathering support from the community. If you are interesting in being part of this new UK chapter as a member, a board member or as someone with a general interest in the chapter, please head over to m:Wikimedia UK v2.0 and let us know. We welcome help in making finishing touches to the plans. An election will be held shortly for the initial board, who will oversee the process of founding the company and accepting membership applications. They will then call an AGM to formally elect a new board, which will take the chapter forward, starting to raise funds and generally supporting the Wikimedia community in the UK. Thanks for your time. AndrewRT 22:30, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Italian heteronyms

OK - what about bisbiglio - see [1] and [2]. SemperBlotto 08:52, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Yep, that one's good. (bisbigliò does not count, of course.) — Paul G 09:03, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

OK - I've split the two nouns. Perhaps you could do it better - maybe add pronunciations? SemperBlotto 10:13, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

p.s. pispiglio and scompiglio follow the same pattern.

Interesting - thanks for that. I started to add the pronunciations but realised that the nouns probably have the same etymologies, so we can't subdivide this entry into "Etymology 1" and "Etymology 2". I wonder if adding the pronunciations under the noun headings is the right thing to do. Beer parlour time... I'll post something there. — Paul G 14:53, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

I've come up with a format, which I've used at bisbiglio and scompiglio - does this look OK to you? Also, would you say the stress mark in the right place (between the "ʎ"s)? — Paul G 15:19, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

It looks reasonable to me (but I don't really understand pronunciation symbols). I have added an etymology - but am not sure how we format onomatopoeic ones (so just added it as a reference link). SemperBlotto 15:27, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

On second thoughts - I don't really like the way that the definition is under the pronunciation rather than under the headword. SemperBlotto 15:31, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that's what I was unhappy with too. Time for me to start a beer parlour discussion, I think. The IPA and SAMPA pronunciations are fine, by the way. — Paul G 19:22, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I've come up with a format that I think looks OK. See bisbiglio. — Paul G 19:49, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Time-saving fact: Template:italbrac = Template:i

Sorry if this seems patronising and I’m not telling you anything new, but it seems from these two revisions that you’re not aware that {{italbrac}} and {{i}} do the same things. Hmm, {{i}} redirects to {{qualifier}}, which still mentions {{italbrac}}… How strange. Off I go to the Beer Parlour. † ﴾^(u):Raifʻhār ^(t):Doremítzwr﴿ 14:31, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

French combined forms

On my recent foray into France I noticed that they stitch pronouns to verbs in a different manner to the Italians. As an example, a newspaper headline read "L'état peut-il nous protéger de la crise?" (Can the state protect us from the crisis?). We do not as yet have entries for peut-il, peut-elle or any others as far as I can tell. Do you think that we ought to (and presumably have a "Category:French combined forms" similar to the Italian)? SemperBlotto 22:02, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

No, we should not be including these, because these are just inversions of subject + verb, which is a standard grammatical construction for asking questions in French. They correspond to the same concept in English; we would not have entries for can it. They are not the same as Italian alzarsi, farsela, esserci, etc, which have different meanings not necessarily derivable from the meanings of alzare, fare and essere. In other words, "peut-il", etc, are merely grammatical constructions and are not idiomatic. By the way, the form "noun + verb + pronoun repeating the noun" is a standard grammatical construction in French too - literally, it is "The state, can it protect us from the crisis?" but this form is not standard English (although compare "Your mother, is she coming with us?"). How was your holiday, by the way? — Paul G 08:56, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

OK - that saves us some work. Replied by email yesterday re. holiday. (which was enjoyable apart from Chunnel chaos) SemperBlotto 09:34, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

OK, I'll have a look at that next time I check my email. I missed something in my posting... of course we have an entry for can it, because this means "shut up", but it also just so happens to be translation of "peut-il" :) — Paul G 13:31, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

• Just a comment – but a few words change form when they invert, eg je peux --> puis-je... Ƿidsiþ 13:48, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, of course these irregular forms should certainly go in. (Are there any others? None come to mind.) I think "je puis" is an obsolete form of "je peux", hence the form "puis-je". — Paul G 13:51, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Update - I've added puis-je, with a warning in comments that regularly formed inversions of this kind are not to be added. — Paul G 13:57, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Hello, Paul G. I am pretty sure that your supposition about "puis" as an obsolete form is correct - there are two examples of its use without any inversion whatsoever, refuting the assertion about changes caused by inversion: "je ne puis parler devant vous." and "craindre lorsqu'il y a des hommes en péril et que je leur puis être utile!"(source, F.-R. de Chateaubriand) - two ordinary sentences(negative and subordinate clause). Ça veux dire, puis is a habitual form of pouvoir just as durst of dare. Bogorm 15:34, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Re: "Are there any others?": Well, this isn't quite the same thing, but forms ending in -e change it to -é (traditionally) or -è (in text following the 1990 rectifications de l'orthographe) when they invert with je. (I say it's not quite the same thing because, as Bogorm points out, puis can exist even outside of inversion, and also because the -e → -é/-è thing is a perfectly regular pattern.) This is pretty rare — usually such verbs just don't invert with je — but google books:"puissé-je" pulls up >1000 hits. —Ruakh_TALK 19:52, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Problemi con SUL

Ciao Paul G, sono felice di aver trovato un madrelingua italiano fra i burocrati. Scusa se ti disturbo in quanto non sono riuscito a trovare la pagina giusta. Sono un sysop su it:wiki con la user Triquetra ed ho cercato di realizzare un user comune su tutti i progetti wiki nazionali. Relativamente a quelli in lingua inglese non ho potuto ottenere il nick su en:wiki e su en:wiktionary. Ho quindi creato su entrambi i progetti il nick Triquetra.bis. Ho poi chiesto su en:wiki l'usurpazione del nick Triquetra che mi è stata concessa da pochi giorni. In quella occasione non ho chiesto la contemporanea usurpazione del nick sul progetto en:wiktionary e pertanto mi rivolgo alla tua cortesia per sapere quale procedura occorre seguire per richiedere questo spostamento. Grazie --Triquetra.bis 17:21, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

scompiglio

Paul - this entry is now a shambles. I can't see what should go where. Could you fix it. SemperBlotto 15:47, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, it looks like the AutoFormat chewed it up and spat it out because of the unconventional layout. Now fixed, but there's nothing to stop AutoFormat from doing the same again. — Paul G 09:24, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Ruakh fixed it to use conventional layout, but with Pronunciation at L4/5 (attribute, like Synonyms etc), not wedged in between the inflection line(s) and the defs where it isn't allowed in any case. AF has no trouble with it now. Robert Ullmann 17:21, 23 December 2008 (UTC)