User talk:Physchim62

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I can't let you away with having a blank user talk page, so I suppose I had better "Welcome to Wiktionary" you. As I know you do a lot on 'pedia, there is no need for the full tedious impersonal welcome template, instead I will just give you the links to our two most important policies. Entry layout explained and Criteria for inclusion, and hope that you get along fine. See you around (IRC or here). Yours Conrad.Irwin 12:14, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Cheers! Physchim62 13:35, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

ca-conj templates[edit]

We use the specific ones (like ca-conj-ar) so we don't have to type out every form. :) I don't really speak Catalan, so if I made a mistake when I made them, you can fix them. BUT remember that we use them to make things easier. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 19:22, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I realise, but I'm working through irregular verb forms at the moment so the ca-conj templates are less useful. We could of course have a hundred or so of the damn things, but that's hardly user friendly either! The vast majority of Catalan verbs are regular -ar verbs and will work with {{ca-conj-ar}}. A list of irregular forms is at User:Physchim62/Catalan verbs: I'm keeping the list in userspace for the moment whicle I check each entry. Physchim62 17:34, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
I tried to do with the Romanian conjugation templates what the Portuguese Template:pt-conj did. If a verb is irregular, you can just use the pt-conj template so that you can use pt-conj-ar etc. for regular verbs. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 19:47, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
That's exactly the idea :) Secondarily, the Catalan templates now roll up nicely, and the table formatting is taken away from the "user interface" (except for defective verbs, of which there are two in Catalan: dar and caldre). At the moment, I am trying to blitz the hundred or so irregular forms using {{ca-conj}} (and a lot of "find-and-replace" in a text editor!) so that we have them covered. Physchim62 10:40, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Irregular forms caused by phonetic mutations can usually be covered by the templates. {{ca-conj-car}} handles the -ques ending in the second person singular (and the other q changes). Pretty fancy, really :) — [ ric ] opiaterein — 11:34, 31 December 2007 (UTC)


Happy New Year! When you have a moment, could you please add Catalan translations to the entry for hinder (both verb and adjective)? Do watch out for edit conflicts, though, since I'm asking several folks for help with this. --EncycloPetey 20:13, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

POS headers[edit]

Just a quick note, on some recent French contributions, you did not include the POS (part of speech) heading e.g. Noun, Verb etc. These are important to the structure of the Wiktionary and should always be included. I fixed catalytique and catalyses, but I'm not sure how many you have entered already so I'll leave that to you or another to fix when come across them next time. --Williamsayers79 13:10, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm new here, so sorry! I don't think it's affected any other entries: my Catalan contributions have all had the correct part of speech header (although there seems to be some problems with lower headers, although I am trying to follow WT:AES as far as possible). The entry you are referring to is catalyse here, not catalyses: I've checked my other French entries and they are either OK or have already been corrected. Physchim62 16:16, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
Good stuff, have fun! --Williamsayers79 16:17, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

multiple etymologies[edit]

Only the Etymology header gets a number "Etymology 2"; the subsidiary headers are as usual. See porquet. Robert Ullmann 15:16, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I'll take your word for it, but not that that makes linking to meanings impossible! On porquet, I deliberately split the "etymologies" so as to make it possible to link to one or other of the three distinct meanings (which also have different synonyms). Physchim62 19:09, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your work on verb conjugation[edit]

...Please may I point out to you Wiktionary:French inflection templates, in case you haven't seen it, which contains all the French inflection templates. I personally think it will be better to tag all verbs with similar conjugations with a common template, as I did with sentir. Not only does this make mistakes easier to spot, but it will make things easier for when my bot (User:Keenebot2) auto-creates all these conjugated forms. In time I also hope to auto-add inflected forms of other languages (I should be able to do this with Catalan). If you have any other suggestions, please let me know. Thanks again, --Keene 17:48, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Yep, I've seen the category:French inflection templates (although not the WT: page; I seem to have missed some of its members! I certainly agree that standardized templates are best—I've only been modifying entries which had either no conjugation at all or old, non-standard templates. I must try to fix {{fr-conj-table}} before I log off (I need it for defective verbs). Physchim62 17:56, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
the table template seems fixed now… that was suspiciously easy, let me know if you see any other problems! Physchim62 18:00, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Catalan past participles[edit]

Thanks for the help with conjugation on here and IRC. I've asked User:Opiaterein this too, as he seems to want to help.. So cantada, cantades and cantats are always used as adjectives, then? In French, as you may know, we say "les femmes que j'ai recontrées" (the women that I met), where rencontrées is used as a feminine plural past participle (because femmes is a direct object, and femmes is a feminine plural word). I've found Complement directe, which seems to say they have a similar system (I may be wrong). Is this not used in Catalan, then? How do you say "the women that I met"? Thanks in advance. --Keene 09:03, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, there are problems here! I don't agree with Opiaterein's changes at all. Also, I would like to play around with the formatting on entries for past participle forms (and adjective forms). For example, cantada needs a link (somewhere) to say that the plural is cantades. I am playing around with a version of the system which is used in French, I'll try to get back to you (both) later on this afternoon.
As for your question, Catalan does have a system of agreement of past participles, but it is more restricted than in French. Agreement is always optional, but is usually used when a third-person direct-object pronoun preceeds the verb: Les germanes, les he vistes avui. "The sisters, I've seen them today." However, "the woman that I met" — la dona que he trobat — doesn't have agreement because que is not a pronoun. In any case, la dona que vaig trobar would be a more general translation, using a verb form in which there is never agreement. Agreement with first- and second-person pronouns is gramatically possible, but virtually unknown in practice. Physchim62 12:12, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Cantada doesn't link to cantades because cantat is the most basic form. Trust me, cantat linking to cantada, cantats and cantades with all three linking back to cantat is the easiest and cleanest way to do it. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 15:13, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
The most basic form is cantar :P Physchim62 17:13, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
The current form of {{ca-pp}} doesn't work in the way you suggest: it lists feminine singular, masculine plural and feminine plural forms regardless of the form of the participle given. I suggest an inflection line that says (past participle, infinitive cantar), a definition line as we have at the moment and a table which should be a prettier version of {{ca-adj-table}}. What do people think? Physchim62 17:25, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


auger augur Auger -- sort 'em out!  :-) msh210 22:08, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

  1. Symbol support vote.svg Support [The]DaveRoss 22:45, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Done! Physchim62 15:52, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


Please do not add spaces adjacent to equal signs in headings. That disrupts popups from WT:PREFS and many offline tools. --Connel MacKenzie 21:51, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

La la land[edit]

I couldn't really think of a section title for this, so I let the dork in me take over for a minute. But anyway, there are two basic things I want to talk about.

  1. Catalan past participles and their forms. I want to try and keep the articles as standard as possible, so I'm going to make changes to some of the templates. Everything you want to be there will still be there, I just want to standardize a little bit so we don't have all of our past participles across languages looking all different, because for the most part they really aren't. So I'll try to do some of that today, or sometime, before we start adding too many.
  2. Get a {{Babel}} on your user page so I know what other stuff you can handle :p — [ ric ] opiaterein — 15:47, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh yeah, I forgot. For past participles (usually just the main form, because in most other romance languages the forms are only used as adjectives) let's use the header ===Participle===, because of the fact that you -can- use Catalan pp's as verbs or adjectives. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 15:49, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

OK, let's go with ===Participle=== as a compromise on that one. Almost all Catalan participles can be used as adjectives; indeed some have escaped and taken on adjectival senses which are different from the sense of the verb (eg cansat, tired). However, they are also verb forms! The rest we can sort our bit by bit, I agree that the presentation of participles should be as consistent as possible over Romance languages. Physchim62 17:55, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Alrighty, let's see... one thing is that current past participle form entries don't include the infinitive, just the simplest form of the past participle (because it's a form of a form of the verb, two steps back, more one than really necessary.) So at some point I'm going to change the {{ca-pp-form}} so that it just displays the current word and the gender. (so cantada would show "cantada f" on the inflection line)
On a less serious side, I also like the function of the {{ca-adj-table}}, but I really want to play with it to try to make it more fun to look at. :) — [ ric ] opiaterein — 23:16, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Oh yeah, also, that's an impressive Babel you've got thar :) — [ ric ] opiaterein — 23:29, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm glad you like the idea of {{ca-adj-table}}: please, please make it prettier! I disagree with you about the inclusion of infinitives, but I shall go away and think about it some more. We seem to be disagreeing on what should be the "lemma" form, the form to which we devote most of our attention in definitions, and also on how much guidance should be given to the user in navigating through the different word forms. Physchim62 16:00, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Come discuss, for realreal[edit]

Our Romance languages' form-of entries (mostly verbs and past participles) need some attention. Like now. :) Come talk about it. — [ ric ] opiaterein — 14:22, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Have done, at least as far as participles go. I think these are our biggest problem: I'm fairly easy about other verb forms, although I would welcome consistency among Romance languages. Physchim62 14:28, 4 March 2008 (UTC)


Would you be willing to take a look at this entry? I know nothing about Slovak orthography, but wouldn't it go at Fero, as its a proper noun? Also, the inflection is formatted kind of goofy, and there's some (Slovak?) text which I commented out. Many thanks. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 02:11, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I've taken a look: yes, I think it should go at Fero. The declension seems correct, although I agree that the formatting is strange. There is a delension template for Slovak—{{sk-decl-noun}}—but it is used on exactly one entry! The commented text seems to be in Esperanto, except for the final sentence: I won't hazard a guess at what it means! Physchim62 13:22, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Fixed. Physchim62 11:42, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Awesome. Thanks. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 17:34, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
I've made the template very slightly prettier as well (could do with some more work though). Physchim62 19:03, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


Could you look at cabell please? I just want to make sure the plural structure is the correct form. Nadando 18:56, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Good call! I have corrected the plural to the standard (Central Catalan, IEC) form. "Cabelles" might be a plural form in some dialects, but I would want some sort of a clarification or reference before going against the IEC. Physchim62 15:53, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
It's not the same as cabal, believe me! Physchim62 16:37, 20 February 2009 (UTC)