User talk:Sumiaz

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Again, welcome! --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 02:14, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Conventions from other wikis & Redirects[edit]

Please remember that people have put a good deal of work into the entries already, so it's always a good idea to find out what the current practice is and get consensus among editors working on a particular language before making major changes in format or other practices. Try to imagine the reaction if people from English Wiktionary went to Quechua Wiktionary and rearranged everything according to how we have it here. Your way may be far better than ours, but other editors are more likely to get defensive and reject your changes if you don't check with them first. I'm fairly new here, so I don't know that much about how you would do that- so I would advise asking about it at the Information Desk.

Try to avoid redirects wherever possible. You may not want a Quechua entry under a particular spelling, but there may be a dozen other languages that have terms spelled exactly the same way, and editors in those languages may not realize that we have no entry for that spelling because the redirect makes the link show as blue. When we move an entry here, we either create a simplified type of entry for that form (see, for instance, how we do it in English entries such as those in Category:English noun forms), or we delete the redirect. Since you don't have the ability to delete pages, you would have to add a template requesting the deletion, such as {{delete}}, and include a note explaining: {{delete|moved page to [[xxxx]]}}, (where xxxx is the page you moved it to) might be one way to do it.

Please read the articles linked above. Feel free to ask questions, and to look at similar entries to see how others do things. Even with experience on other Wiktionaries, there's a lot you need to learn about doing things here. Thanks for working on our entries here, and good luck! Chuck Entz (talk) 04:35, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice, but I hope you will reconsider, based on the fact that the English Wiktionary currently has very few Quechua verbs, and had no consistency in page names with some choosing the root (e.g. "para-") and others the infinitive (e.g. "paray"). I decided to change the root-based pages to redirects for a number of reasons. The first is that infinitives are used for entries in other agglutinative languages like Japanese ("kaeru" instead of "kae-") or Turkish ("konuşmak" instead of "konuş-"). The second is that this is the form one would generally see in a Quechua dictionary, and is consistent with the only significant collection of Quechua verbs on Wiktionary at nl:Categorie:Werkwoord in het Quechua.
Sumiaz (talk) 10:51, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
In this case, Sumiaz is absolutely doing the right thing. I fully support the move to infinitive as the lemma form for Quechua verbs. This user is essentially the entire language community, and I think somebody like Stephen G. Brown (talkcontribs) would agree (but you can ask him if you want confirmation of that). —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 21:58, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

A couple things[edit]

First of all, could you please look at Category:Requests (Quechua)? We have an entry (tuku) that needs attention, and some translations that need to be added or checked.

Secondly, could you please add a BabelBox to your userpage? Thanks! —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 03:15, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

I wanted to thank you again for all your great work with Kichwa here. I just returned today from South America, where I heard Kichwa spoken for the first time. It was really exciting to see it as a vibrant language, used for shop signs, museum labels, and even graffiti (although I'll own up to the fact that I only used Spanish when talking to them...) Anyway, I'm glad to see that we've caught up to nl.wikt and I hope you keep going! —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 03:39, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
Hey, Mετάknowledge, sorry for not replying to your post earlier. That's awesome that you were able to get exposure to the language! I'm still limited to written resources and the occasional Youtube video, but I hope to someday go to Peru, Bolivia, or Ecuador to get some first-hand experience. I think it's a beautiful and remarkably productive language, but it's a shame to hear how marginalized its speakers are, at least in Peru. I'm hoping that making Kichwa/Quechua more accessible on the internet will be helpful to both computer-literate native speakers and second-language learners alike. I'm going to try to get some more work done this summer, and please let me know if you have any other questions or comments! -Sumiaz (talk) 04:28, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Header levels[edit]

Category:Entries with level or structure problems is now principally occupied by your recent contributions. See WT:ELE for the correct formatting. For simple entries, alternative forms, etymology, pronunciation, part-of-speech, and reference headers are at the third level ("==="), others are usually at level four. DCDuring TALK 03:04, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know about that! I couldn't figure out why that template kept showing up. Anyway, I fixed the problems identified by the bot and corrected the template I was using, so new "Numeral" entries shouldn't be getting tagged now. -Sumiaz (talk) 03:16, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
You're welcome, thanks for the new Quechua entries, and for correcting the formatting so quickly. I hope you have all of your entries automatically put on your watchlist. That's indispensable when doing any new. DCDuring TALK 03:41, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Quechua/Kichwa[edit]

Hello! Thank you for all your work on Quechua! I see on your user page that you've opted not to include Kichwa entries (the Ecuadorian standard varieties) under the Quechua header. Is it because of lack of resources or because it is significantly different from Southern Quechua? If it's the difference, then would you be opposed if we separated the two? It would involve creating new codes for both standard varieties, since neither has an official ISO code and I would propose we use new headers (Southern Quechua of II-C and Northern Quechua for II-B). What do you think? --Dijan (talk) 15:32, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

piqwana[edit]

Hi Sumiaz. I was wondering if you could check that this entry is correct, as well as antanka pampa, which is currently at WT:RFV. They were created by an editor who made a lot of poor entries, so I wanted to be sure. Thanks! —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 06:47, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

I honestly can't speak to the validity of this user's entries, mainly since I don't know whether or not these words are used by native speakers in practice. Because of this user's special emphasis on a certain mid-size Chilean city, I am suspect about their other entries and apprehensive of delving too much into them. I found trying to correct or delete this user's numerous entries too time-consuming and difficult to justify; rather, I figured I would make entries independently, linking them to these preexisting entries when possible (there has been little intersection so far). I can offer the below comments instead of a definitive answer:
Re: antanka pampa
Is it one word or two? There isn't much consistency in how modern, written Quechua treats compound words. Compare, for example, the practical treatment of a placename like Urupampa (Urubamba) versus a purported neologism like antaka pampa (which could just as well be written antankapampa or antanka-pampa). I go back and forth between positions, to be honest. On one hand, combining compounds makes for easier suffixing and recognition; on the other hand, separating components allows for easier recognition and reduces the need for remembering lengthy compounds.
  • An editor trying to pick a side should consider the differences in treatment between English compound nouns (word-by-word) and German compound nouns (single-word); in Quechua there is no official or documented practical leaning in either direction, and a native speaker has every right to choose the one they see fit. As an example, would a Quechua neologism for tree house or Baumhaus be mallki wasi or mallkiwasi?
Do Quechua speakers actually say antankapampa? More specifically, do Quechua speakers use the word antanka? Other documented words for "airplane" include awiyun (cf. Es. avión), hawatapuriqanka, and latap'isqu.
  • For these reasons, I have tried to avoid compound nouns when adding or editing entries (Quechua entries have bigger priorities at this point). Although I oppose having antankapampa as a separate entry (as long as there is a deficiency of non-compound entries), I cannot speak to how often it is used by native speakers.
Re: piqwana
Structurally there is nothing wrong with this entry, assuming that piwqay is a verb. If piqway is a motion verb referring to flight, piqwana as "projectile" is believable. However, right now, I can't find evidence for its use; it may be a regionalism, misspelling, or outright fabrication. At the same time, I can't advocate for its deletion for reasons other than that it is too specific of an entry as long as its verb root has no entry of its own.
-Sumiaz (talk) 22:26, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
I missed this at the time, but thank you! I hope that less important priorities like these do get addressed someday, but for now, I think we'll just send them through RFV and I appreciate your effort in answering. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 06:24, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

ñaqcha[edit]

A mistake I think? —CodeCat 22:56, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Yes, definitely a mistake; that should have linked to ñaqch'a. Thanks for the heads-up! -Sumiaz (talk) 22:59, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

About Quechua impersonal Verbs[edit]

Regarding Quechua impersonal verbs such as tutay, should there be a template or at least a parameter in the conjugation template for impersonal verbs? (Also, is tamyay an impersonal verb?) --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 21:15, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps at some point, but I wouldn't bother with it now. There are still very few "impersonal" Quechua verb entries, and they are not consistently categorized anyway. Plus, I'm not sure how flexible Quechua is with impersonal verbs. Applying full regular conjugation to impersonal verbs is permitted in some languages and discouraged in others. The French pleuvioter uses a separate "fr-conj-imp" template that omits all non-3sg forms. What seems to be more common is to include the full conjugation table with a note that usually only the third-person singular form is used (e.g. Spanish llover, Hungarian havazik, Finnish hotsittaa).
On that note, tamyay probably counts as an impersonal verb, but I wouldn't do much more than mark it using the "context" template. Maybe "intransitive, impersonal" would be more appropriate?
-Sumiaz (talk) 22:24, 22 December 2015 (UTC)