User talk:Svartava

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Links to Spanish 101

I'm just passing by to say that I've deleted the links to the two pages I Template:d'd. The links came from a template/module so I didn't actually have to edit other mainspace pages (this might be why the What links here page hasn't updated yet).

It should be OK to delete the two pages now. MedK1 (talk) 15:35, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

@Svartava Also, I wonder if eleven thousand, fifty thousand, and nine thousand nine hundred and ninety-nine should go for the same reasons? The last page passed an RFD, but the grounds for it were that it's SOP, not that it breaks CFI. MedK1 (talk) 16:27, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

@MedK1: The last page was RFD-kept was before the vote; the reasons are about the same, I'll look into speedying them if possible. Svārtava (tɕ) 16:37, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Todo/Lists/Broken links to Wikipedia

Two language blocks of these have been around for a long, long time:

1. Apabhramsa
2. Ashokan Prakrit

The majority of these are due to templates defaulting to the name of the site/locality, which doesn't have a Wikipedia article. In the case of Ashokan Prakrit a lot of them are on rocks in the middle of nowhere, and the nearest named place becomes the name cited. There are articles like Minor Rock Edicts that might be the only ones that cover them. In other cases, I'm sure that the Wikipedia article exists, but the name doesn't match, or there's an article that covers more than one named place.

I was hoping that you, as someone more familiar with the history and geography behind these, might be able to make the appropriate changes to the data modules to retire most of them, and maybe fix a few that are due to errors in the entries themselves. It would take me much, much longer to get up to speed enough to do it myself.

Of course, Wikipedia links aren't the first thing that anyone uses, so it's obviously not a priority. It's just sad to see these month after month because no one else is interested. Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 03:08, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this up! I have fixed the links of the two language blocks by creating two (very basic) articles for the Apabhramsa lects and relinking the some of the Ashokan Prakrit ones to w:List of Edicts of Ashoka, since that is consistent with what is given in the label module: Module:labels/data/lang/inc-ash also. Svārtava (tɕ) 12:06, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

नाम परिवर्तन का अनुरोध

मैंने देखा है कि आपने मुझे एक नाम सुधार के लिए धन्यवाद दिया है। उसके समान टंकणगत अशुद्धियाँ हिन्दी विकिपीडिया में उपस्थित हैं।

https://hi.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/दाल_मखानी https://hi.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/चिकन_मखानी https://hi.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/लाल_मास

मैंने इनके वार्ता पृष्ठों पर नाम परिवर्तन का अनुरोध प्रकाशित किया है। यदि संभव हो सके, तो कृपया उन्हें स्वीकार कर दें। धन्यावाद! The Sorter (talk) 13:39, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

@The Sorter: मैंने यथानुरोध स्थानांतरणों को पूर्ण कर दिया है। इस विषय पर मेरा ध्यान आकर्षित करने के लिए धन्यवाद! Svārtava (tɕ) 17:21, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

Removal of communities who use certain titles and surnames.

Hello, you have recently been removing the names of the communities who use certain titles and surnames from entries for Hindi, Gujarati, and Panjabi languages. You have charactarized this content as "Irrelevant informatino/not dictionary material", but if this were the case the dictionary writers themselves would not have included this information. References can be provided from dictionaries to suppport the lexical meaning.

• दुबे: name of a Brahmin community
  • McGregor, Ronald Stuart (1993) “दूबे”, in The Oxford Hindi-English Dictionary, London: Oxford University Press
  • Dāsa, Śyāmasundara (1965–1975) “दुबे”, in Hindī Śabdasāgara [lit. Sea of Hindi words] (in Hindi), Kashi [Varanasi]: Nagari Pracarini Sabha
  • Caturvedi, Mahendra, Bhola Nath Tiwari (1970) “दुबे”, in A practical Hindi-English dictionary, Delhi: National Publishing House
• वर्मा: surname used by Kāyasths or kshatriya groups from Madhya Pradesh
  • McGregor, Ronald Stuart (1993) “वर्मा”, in The Oxford Hindi-English Dictionary, London: Oxford University Press
  • Dāsa, Śyāmasundara (1965–1975) “वर्मा”, in Hindī Śabdasāgara [lit. Sea of Hindi words] (in Hindi), Kashi [Varanasi]: Nagari Pracarini Sabha
• ઠક્કર, held by Lohāṇās, Khatrīs, Khojās, and Bhāṭiyās.
  • ભગવતસિંહ [bhagvatsĩh] (1944) “ઠક્કર”, in ભગવદ્ગોમંડલ [bhagvadgomaṇḍal], India.
  • “ઠક્કર”, in Gujaratilexicon.com [Gujarati-English dictionary], Arnion Technologies, 2009.
  • Belsare, Malhar (1981) “ઠક્કર”, in ગુજરાતી-અંગ્રેજી ડિકશનરી [Etymological Gujarati-English Dictionary]‎^[1], Asian Educational Services
• ਸਿੰਘ
  • Singh, Bhai Maya (1895) “ਸਿੰਘ”, in The Panjabi Dictionary, Lahore: Munshi Gulab Singh and Sons.
  • “ਸਿੰਘ”, in Mahan Kosh [ਮਹਾਨ ਕੋਸ਼] (in Punjabi), Patiala: Languages Department of Punjab, 2025
  • “ਸਿੰਘ”, in Punjabipedia [ਪੰਜਾਬੀਪੀਡੀਆ] (in Punjabi), Patiala: Punjabi University, 2025

These can be provided for all of the removed meanings if necessary. Also compare the entries for the English occupational surname Walker or the Latin clan name Iulius. Chariotrider555 (talk) 19:27, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

@Chariotrider555: Like I said, I don't think this is relevant information for us to include on pages.

See Appendix talk:Arora surnames#RFD discussion: November–December 2021: Furthermore, dividing this list by literally caste seems unproductive, as we do not mention caste (or religion) in our entries.

The English Walker says: A northern English surname originating as an occupation from the occupation of treating cloth by "walking" it. This much information is provided by our Indic language entries already as well, e.g. the etymology of ગાંધી (gā̃dhī) says it originates from "perfumer", झा (jhā) says it originates from "teacher", etc.

We are not bound to follow any dictionary writer and often independently decide whether some information or word has to be included or not. Svārtava (tɕ) 03:21, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

In my opinion it is not logical that Wiktionary editors (who generally have not published notable dictionaries) can choose to ignore definitions by deeming them "irrelevant", could you provide some background on this Wiktionary practice. Currently this is taking two forms, surnames that are the name of the community itself and surnames that are used only by certain communities. दुबे and દવે are literally the names of communities. The second scenario can be seen for entries like ઠક્કર or ਸਿੰਘ. Removing the defintions in the first case seems far less defensible to me. In the second scenario, supposing you were to take your arguments to their logical extension, you would have to remove the meanings from the Sanskrit terms शर्मन्, वर्मन्, and गुप्त which state they are suffixes added to the names of people of certain varṇas. Chariotrider555 (talk) 01:19, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

it is not logical that Wiktionary editors […] can choose to ignore

If you are saying that all Wiktionary content should be dictated by sources or editors should be completely disallowed to omit what a source says, then that's now how it works here.

दुबे (dube) etc. are not "literally the names of communities", they are just surnames and have very little modern relevance or relation to what they may have originally been for.

ਸਿੰਘ (siṅgh) being one of the most popular surnames throughout India is the most classic example of why this info is totally unneeded and irrelevant for us to show in our entries. Svārtava (tɕ) 13:26, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

I believe Wiktionary is meant to document all historical meanings of a word (including their original use case!), not just their "modern relevance". Chariotrider555 (talk) 04:47, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

You need attestations to show that e.g. दुबे (dube) ever meant "knowing two Vedas" in Hindi (the fact it comes from Sanskrit द्विवेदिन् is already documented, so that covers the historicity) and was anything more than a surname. Svārtava (tɕ) 05:09, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

कवनि कवनेहुँ etc.

Hello, how is कवनि related to कवन, grammatically in awadhi [2]p, 14 How should its entry be created, grammatical case etc.? Awdhi (talk) 11:10, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

@Awdhi: Yes, it must be related to कवन (kavana). There seem many words where a final vowel is unetymologically added to the end of Awadhi words, e.g. बिनु (binu, “without”), पुनि (puni, “again”). Svārtava (tɕ) 11:56, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

Reference for etymology of नकार

Sir, how you reached to the conclusion that नकार as 'to refuse' is borrowed from sanskrit I am asking this because I was unable to find any reference to this claim. MurjhayaAanch (talk) 15:22, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

@MurjhayaAanch: I have added more citations to the entry including a quotation so the "expression of no; refusal" sense existed in Sanskrit, so we can say that NIA (Hindi, Marathi, etc.) borrowed the term from there. Sanskrit also having the sense is also not surprising because कार (kāra, “sound, expression”) is very productive as a suffix and there are lots of indeclinable (in this case न (na, “no”)) + -कार formations. Svārtava (tɕ) 17:30, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Thank you, actually I had doubt if it is truly entirely free from the influence of extremely similar इंकार, in addition the Platts dictionary too had a H not a S in front of the entry, thanks to the quotation you provided helped me a little in understanding that it might just have kind of catalyzed by इंकार, yet, really borrowed from Sanskrit MurjhayaAanch (talk) 19:40, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

Removal of rollback

I'm concerned that the supposed "discussion with few other administrators" was private and not public. I also believe that not liking what I say at RfD isn't a reason to remove rollback. Purplebackpack89 15:12, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

The last antivandalism rollback of yours is in 2016, indicating 9+ years of inactivity concerning the tools (one reverted rollback and one self revert doesn't really count), so you seem to have no need for the tools, seeing there are concerns about your other edits as well. If you think your case for getting the rollback rights is strong enough, you may rerequest at WT:BP as mentioned at WT:Rollback. Svārtava (tɕ) 15:45, 24 March 2025 (UTC)

Removal of “controversial” quotations

• Regarding “controversial”,

  • Although avoiding “controversial” quotations may be preferable a guideline, what is considered controversial is not well-defined.
  • Wiktionary:Quotations does not say anything along the lines of “Do not use controversial quotations”.
  • So, if a very loose definition of “controversial” is used, such a guideline would eliminate many possible quotations.

• Regarding Hindi नेमुलबदल,

Discussion moved from Talk:नेमुलबदल.

• • Since नेमुलबदल is extremely rare in Hindi, almost any quotation is useful towards demonstrating whether it meets the three citations rule.
  • The exact border between Indian-administered Kashmir and Pakistani-administered Kashmir clearly remains controversial to this day. So, Wiktionary should certainly be careful in how it presents this matter.
  • However, by contrast, people migrating to the then-newly-formed Pakistan, and Karachi becoming the capital of Pakistan immediately after the Partition of India has been a divisive issue, but not necessarily controversial.

• Regarding Marathi अकड,

  • The term is not as common in Marathi as it is in Hindi, and at the same time, it is not exactly rare.
  • There are two spellings अक्कड and अकड.
  • So, almost any quotation would be useful towards demonstrating whether a particular spelling meets the three citations rule.
  • The term itself could inherently be argued to have negative connotations.
  • Quoting a Quran translation on its own is not directly “controversial”, as using Hindu material is regularly done.
  • The replacement quotation is a self-published book, so its “usability” may be less clear. ऐसे in the title is a dated form of असे. The entry itself provides little context and finding the context in Google Books may be difficult because of how it randomly hides pages. Providing sufficient context is a recommendation given at Wiktionary:Quotations.

  • • Ideally, quotations should: Illustrate a term's meaning by surrounding context … Show the variety of contexts that a term is used in … Show the variety of genres … that a term is used in

Kutchkutch (talk) 04:20, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

The Quran is a 7th century Arabic text, which makes it an ideal source of quotations for Arabic lemmas. Quoting the Quran for an everyday Marathi term makes it look like the Marathi term is attested in the Quran from the 7th century or is of a higher significance from the Quranic point of view than is really the case. Similarly, I would find it unnecessary to quote a French translation of the Bhagavad Geeta at the French entry travail. -- 𝘗𝘶𝘭𝘪𝘮𝘢𝘪𝘺𝘪^{(𝘵𝘢𝘭𝘬)} 04:47, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

@Pulimaiyi

• Yes, quoting a translation of the Quran may not entirely ideal for a an ordinary Marathi term because it comes from 7th century Arabic.
• However, the replacement quotation that has been added for the sake of increasing “neutrality” is equally inadequate (if not more inadequate).
• It may be difficult to improve upon the replacement quotation (if it does not exist outside Google Books) because of the aforementioned issues.
• On the other hand, if additional context of a line of the Quran needs to be found or verified, then this can be done online.

Kutchkutch (talk) 15:03, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

@Kutchkutch: For now @Pulimaiyi: has added an usex in the entry which is seems to be sufficiently illustrative. Svārtava (tɕ) 17:45, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

• This discussion primarily refers to censoring quotations for being politically correct rather than the usage example.
• There is a difference between usage examples and quotations. As per WT:Example_sentences
  • Example sentences are distinct from quotations, which are taken from a published source, rather than invented by a Wiktionary editor.
• If context to the replacement quotation cannot be added by experimenting with Google Books or finding it elsewhere, it would be better to remove or replace it, rather than letting it remain as is.
• Regarding “controversial” quotations,
  • At some level, it may seem fairly obvious what is controversial within politics, religion, factually incorrect statements, etc.
  • However, almost anything could considered controversial in some actual or imagined context, so it would be helpful if you could explicitly specify what is considered “controversial”.
  • This example is comparatively mild, but with the usage example at अकड, anyone named Ramesh could be somehow affected. Thus, it is impractical to take every possible reader’s sensibilities into account.
  • The reason for bringing up नेमुलबदल is that censoring “controversial” quotations seems to a trend rather than a one-off occurrence.
• Kutchkutch (talk) 10:07, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

  @Kutchkutch: That's a fair point, so I have removed the name and replaced it with a pronoun. -- 𝘗𝘶𝘭𝘪𝘮𝘢𝘪𝘺𝘪^{(𝘵𝘢𝘭𝘬)} 03:06, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

• Fixed the issue with not having enough context for the replacement quotation.
• The expanded replacement quotation does feature distressing issues such as a sibling dispute and financial hardship.
• However, none of these two topics appear to be on the current list of “controversial” topics to be censored.
• Perhaps the reason is that being distressing may not directly be “controversial” in the way that the other topics are.
• Kutchkutch (talk) 16:56, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

The editing of Truth Nuke.

My definition of Truth Nuke is the most straight foward and best definition of truth nuke. 73.205.113.70 04:27, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

No; in line with the word's usage on the internet, the more correct definition definition is that it is a synonym of truth bomb (see the definition there). Svārtava (tɕ) 05:56, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

Who is Chaman chutiya?

Here are the reasons i give why your etymology should not be used:

• The claim that चमन is a clipping of चमन चूतिया is presented with the assertion of being "very certain," yet no concrete evidence as such have been provided to substantiate this etymology. Etymological claims on Wiktionary must be grounded in verifiable sources or linguistic analysis, not personal speculation or anecdotal observation. The proposer bears the burden of proof to demonstrate that चमन as an insult originates specifically from the phrase चमन चूतिया and that चमन (meaning "garden") functions as an intensifier in this context. Without such evidence, the proposed etymology remains speculative and should not override alternative explanations.
• Alternative etymology and Occam's razor : While it is possible that चमन as an insult may have some connection to the phrase चमन चूतिया, this relationship is not definitive and should be noted as a hypothesis rather than a confirmed etymology. Creating a separate etymology for the insult sense risks overstating the certainty of the clipping hypothesis and harms the more logical and commonsensical course of action which confirms the uncertainty, instead it should be stated in the primary etymology section that the sense might be interconnected to chaman chutiya.
• Many Hindi speakers, particularly in informal settings, use चमन as an insult without awareness of its literal meaning ("garden") or any connection to चमन चूतिया. The term’s insulting connotation is often contextually understood, and its usage elicits offense without requiring the explicit vulgarity of चूतिया.

If you revert my edit, it shall amount to edit warring due to onus of such certainty being upon you. @Kutchkutch @सौम्य @AryamanA @Dragonoid76 The counsel of fellow Wiktionarians must be sought and duly considered prior to the reversal of my edit. I humbly submit that their esteemed opinions are requisite in this matter. Chamanchutiyaa (talk) 05:44, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

The reason I think चमन चूतिया is the source of the "fool" sense of चमन is primarily that चमन चूतिया is significantly more popular in usage than just चमन (in fact चमन चूतिया also has hits in Google books which चमन does not - which would be strange considering that चमन चूतिया has the vulgar word चूतिया while चमन does not). I quite strongly think that चमन is just an euphemistic clipping of the expression. Svārtava (tɕ) 07:50, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

I think you are perhaps right Chamanchutiyaa (talk) 08:32, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

But still [3], just because चमन चूतिया seems to be more common, it can't be said with certainty that it is indeed a clipping, possible that chaman already had been used in that sense. Since clipping is only a possibility it is better to keep they way i have edited. Chamanchutiyaa (talk) 13:00, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

It's clearly a clipping. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 18:48, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

Issue with Categories

Hello. There appears to be a hiccup with the catfix, and I was hoping that perhaps as an admin you might have a solution. Terms categorised under tlb and lb are both appearing under Marathi dated terms. Up until now the category "Marathi terms with dated senses" did not exist. However, even after its creation this morning by me, terms tagged with lb (only one meaning having a dated sense and such) haven't moved to the "Dated senses" category and are still under "Dated terms". Could you pls look into it. Sunshine1191 (talk) 03:07, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

@Sunshine1191: Use {{lb|mr|dated sense}} for categorization into CAT:Marathi terms with dated senses. Svārtava (tɕ) 13:04, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

Okay. Thanks. Sunshine1191 (talk) 13:09, 10 June 2025 (UTC)