Talk:derivatives market

RFD — kept

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derivatives market

SoP. [[derivatives]] [[market]] DCDuring TALK 10:53, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, and these probably too: stock market, money market, futures market, commodity market. They are all listed as related terms under financial market. Maybe that should go as well? --Hekaheka 17:24, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm. "Derivatives market" is in no OneLook dictionary. All the others are in multiple dictionaries. I think that in the case of the ones that are in other dictionaries there are definite non-SoP aspects with regard to the items on the market. Eg, the stock market sells more than stock and not all kinds of stock. In all cases the dictionary terms seem to refer to the markets that have publicly advertised prices set at least daily. The term derivatives market seems to refer to any market on which any derivative is traded, including the infamous credit default swaps. The "financial markets" seems to some kind of personified aggregation, to judge from the media. DCDuring TALK 18:08, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

The reason for derivatives market not being in other dictionaries may be simply that it is a newer phenomenon. I don't see any fundamental difference with, say, futures market. --Hekaheka 06:57, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Some of the markets seem to differ from those we have included: currency market, gold market, overnight funds market, options market, securities market, Eurodollar market, swaps market, swap market, commodities market. (Bond market could be added to the blue links.) Some are old, some are new, some are red, some are blue.

This is the definition shown: "A market where various financial derivatives are bought and sold." I rest my case. Further, I doubt that an accurate definition could be provided that was not SoP. DCDuring TALK 12:45, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

The definition is far from perfect, but that wasn't my point. The point is that the term itself is not materially more SoP than the others that I mentioned, nor is it necessarily less SoP than the red links which you listed. The definitions for money market and commodity market simply list examples of what is traded and futures market repeats the definition of a financial future and combines it with the word market. Both "improvements" can be easily done for the definition of derivatives market. --Hekaheka 13:38, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

We cannot run this process relying on hypothetical definitions. We need to assess what we have. I have been reviewing our business, finance, management, and economics. If I can improve an SoP definition, I try to do so. I can't for this one. Perhaps someone else can. If no one can come up with a definition that is not sum of the parts and not encyclopedic, then it ought to be deleted. DCDuring TALK 15:47, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

• Keep. Strongly agree with User:Hekaheka on this one. Obviously in widespread use, not sum of parts; colloquially it has enormous connotations beyond the literal meaning. But withing the finance industry, the meaning is probably more specific than we should guess at. Not sure how this could ever be construed as sum-of-parts at all. --Connel MacKenzie 15:07, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

• This is not RfV. If it has connotations, let them be laid out as a non-gloss definition. If we don't have anyone who can do it, perhaps it can't be done. If we can't recruit anyone with more expertise and experience in this field than I have, then we may not have the ability to make good on the "all words in all languages" claim in this area yet. DCDuring TALK 15:47, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Looks lika a draw to me. I'll remove the tag as there isn't sufficient support for deletion. --Hekaheka 21:50, 17 April 2009 (UTC)