Talk:mantel

it means a table cloth in spanish —This unsigned comment was added by 72.240.142.44 (talk • contribs) 2006-05-03 00:51:02.

Yes, it sure does. Added Spanish. Rodasmith 01:56, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Afrikaans

@AdjacentTriangle This word clearly exists in Afrikaans, at least as an article of clothing, but I'm not completely sure if it is used in the sense "cape/cloak" or "coat/jacket" (probably both but it is not easy to tell for me). Could you add an Afrikaans entry? Perhaps some parts of the Dutch and English entries are reusable. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 19:24, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

@Lingo Bingo Dingo Added it now. It means "cape/cloak" rather than "coat/jacket" (unless "the jacket of an object"). It shares a lot in common with the original Dutch definitions. AdjacentTriangle (talk) 07:05, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

@AdjacentTriangle Thanks! Should manteldierd in the derived terms be manteldier? The figurative sense could perhaps use a gloss for clarity. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 08:38, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

RFV discussion: November 2019–March 2021

The following information has failed Wiktionary's verification process (permalink).

Failure to be verified means that insufficient eligible citations of this usage have been found, and the entry therefore does not meet Wiktionary inclusion criteria at the present time. We have archived here the disputed information, the verification discussion, and any documentation gathered so far, pending further evidence.
Do not re-add this information to the article without also submitting proof that it meets Wiktionary's criteria for inclusion.

---

mantel (Dutch)

RFV-sense of "surface (literal), lack of substance (figurative)". The literal sense is likely attestable in the meaning "the Earth's mantle", otherwise I'm not so sure. If it isn't attested with different meanings, a definition "mantle, Earth's mantle" may be a better option. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 15:24, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

The Dutch Wiktionary gives the sense “hull of a device”, as well as “a mollusc in the order Ostreida” without being more specific. (This source may be helpful.) The Dutch Wikipedia gives, furthermore, the senses “hull of an electric cable” and Mantle (mollusc) – not an animal but an anatomical structure, a muscular body wall. So “hull” would seem a better description than “surface”. I find no examples of a figurative sense “lack of substance”. There is a figurative use in the idiom “mantel der liefde”, which seems to be used rather differently (suggesting forgiveness) than English “cloak of love” (suggesting treacherous deceit). I think I see figurative uses here and here, where too the mantel is a deceitful cloak. This may be the same figurative sense as dekmantel. Perhaps the contested figurative sense is a very poor worded attempt to define the sense “guise, facade”. If the sense “lack of substance (figurative)” can somehow be attested, it should definitely get a line of its own, since it is completely different from “surface/hull (literal)”.  --Lambiam 19:41, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

I wouldn't say hull and surface are synonyms; that a sense hull exists should be clear, but I don't really know what the appropriate level of splitting vs. lumping would be for that sense. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 10:23, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

RFV failed, replaced with some goodly stuff, with mantles and hulls and bivalves and all. @Lambiam I haven't added a figurative sense yet. I suppose you would like to see a meaning "guise, facade" whereas mantel der liefde could be an entry of its own? ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 19:26, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

@LBD – In the figurative uses I spotted, “guise, facade” appears to cover the sense. Here is a third figurative use, so this meets our CFI. And yes, mantel der liefde deserves an entry; this is not about appearance, so the sense here is not adequately covered by “guise”.  --Lambiam 20:41, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

@Lambiam  Done. Please check if you agree with the results. Feel free to modify the definition at mantel der liefde in particular, I'm not really satisfied with it myself to be frank. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 10:13, 12 March 2021 (UTC)