Talk:cumbrous

From cumber (noun or verb?)

@Sgconlaw: The etymology states that it is from the verb but your references do not (OED: “cumber n., -ous suffix”). J3133 (talk) 13:56, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

@J3133: you have to treat OED etymologies with some caution, especially those which haven't been fully updated (this entry, for instance, dates from 1893). I check if there are alternative forms listed, and in this case there are Middle English forms which means the modern English term was inherited from Middle English. If there aren't any alternative forms, just to be sure I check the Middle English Dictionary to see if it has a relevant entry.

Also, the OED doesn't distinguish between Old English, Middle English and modern English, so when it gives an etymology like cumber + -ous it's best to consider whether this refers to the word having been formed in modern English or, as I have sometimes found, Middle English. — Sgconlaw (talk) 14:53, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

@Sgconlaw: But the MED does not state that it is from the verb either, merely “Cp. encǒmbrǒus”, which is from Old French encombros, itself, according to the OED, also from a noun, encombre (i.e., not the verb, encombrer). J3133 (talk) 15:52, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

@J3133: hmmm. I looked at the references I mentioned in the entry again (essentially the MED, OED and Lexico; I guess I didn't look at any others). I suspect what may have happened is that I either missed the fact that the OED claims the word is derived from the noun form of cumber, or I looked at Lexico which does not specify whether the noun or verb form of cumber is intended.

If cumbrous derives from Middle English, then it can't be from cumber the modern English noun. Should we then indicate the etymology as Middle English combre, cumbre (“destruction; distress”) + -ous? — Sgconlaw (talk) 19:51, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

@Sgconlaw: I suppose we should. J3133 (talk) 08:10, 7 February 2024 (UTC)