Talk:goy

"Offensive"

Aren't the alleged "offensive" connotations of this term white nationalist propaganda? It's like saying cis is a slur or straight is a slur; bigots have claimed all of these things, but largely to push a covert agenda and create false equivalence. Finsternish (talk) 13:21, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

At least it can be like with Wiktionary:Information desk/2018/January#Three Chinese proverbs using offensive descriptive language. -91.6.197.79 13:33, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

Can you give an example of someone taking offense to the term who is not advocating white nationalism or some similar ideology, nor participating in a forum widely known for harboring such people? Finsternish (talk) 19:30, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

FWIW the label was added in diff by a now-blocked user whose interests you can see from his editing history. It was toned down from "usually offensive" to "often offensive" by another editor; I would either tone it down a step further to "sometimes offensive" or remove the label and leave just the usage note. Some people do find the term offensive and/or pejorative, especially relative to more neutral terms like gentile, so some kind of note seems appropriate. - -sche (discuss) 19:42, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

Oddly enough the only perceivable difference is that the word goy is Hebrew while the word gentile is Latin and comes from gens, which is basically the same thing. Less assimilated Jews are more likely to say goy, and the nature of power relations means that such people will be more stigmatized by broader society and suffer a larger brunt of antisemitism. Whereas no harm comes to goys from being called goys. Finsternish (talk) 06:53, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

I think it's unfair to assume that people who are offended by being called "goy" are white nationalists. There are Jews who do not like being called Jews and only find "Jewish" acceptable. Are they Jewish nationalists? — [ זכריה קהת ] Zack. — 11:36, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

See my comment above from 13:21, 1 February 2018 (UTC). Finsternish (talk) 18:50, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

The point of Wiktionary is to describe language as it is, not some idealized form of language; hence the fact that only white nationalists take offense to "goy" is simply a description of actual usage in the English language. By the nature of language itself, it would be meaningless to apply the same logic to a word that signifies a different thing. Finsternish (talk) 18:57, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

I know plenty of Jews who take offense to people saying "goy."

The point of Wiktionary is to describe language as it is, not for you to impose your sociopolitical worldview on people. — [ זכריה קהת ] Zack. — 13:17, 27 May 2018 (UTC)