Talk:reggaeowy
Latest comment: 2 years ago by Tashi in topic RFV discussion: March 2022
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Polish. @Shumkichi, Tashi Vininn126 (talk) 15:47, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
- It's on SJP but you might be right it's incorrect https://sjp.pl/reggaeowy Tashi (talk) 15:51, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
- SJP is created by random users I think, no serious person would use it as a reference work. The word is unattestable + not comparable to native words and fully adapted loan words that are declineable (e.g. "łuska" + "-owy" = "łuskowy" - yes, the last vowel is deleted but it's because it's a fully declineable noun, and that's how Polish morphology works). With phonetically unadapted borrowings like "reggae", "attaché", or even "ska", the irregular vowel that's not found in native neuter nouns is an inseparable part of these nouns, that's what makes them unique. The final vowel in "reggae" for a NEUTER noun (the gender is important here) simply makes it impossible for us to delete it and create even "reggae'owy" out of it, with the regular pronunciation of /regovy/. We could do it if the noun was pronounced e.g. "rega" and was feminine. Delete delete delete raus raus raus! Shumkichi (talk) 15:58, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
- It might be non-standard, I was able to pull up results without the apostrophe. If it's attestable it's attestable. I wouldn't be surprised if reggae'owy had more results Vininn126 (talk) 16:04, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
- But, as I said, if the native speakers felt the need to use a relational adjective, they would simply use it. But native speakers instinctively know that it would violate some phonological rules so they use the noun itself as a postpositive adjective, cf. "muzyka reggae", "piosenka reggae". Just because it can be found on the Internet, it doesn't mean that we should add it. Ironically, that's a rather prescriptive way of thinking: you disregard how a vast majority of people use their native language. Shumkichi (talk) 16:09, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
- it's not prescriptive if I'm just saying how they use it. That said, CFI is CFI. If it is something on the internet we might want to add it. Vininn126 (talk) 16:12, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
- It IS prescriptive if you ignore the opinion of the MAJORITY. Who cares if some ppl use it (I'm pretty sure on the Internet only), they shouldn't be our point of reference. Ok, @Tashi, what would be the adjective of "ska"? "skowy"? Of course not. "reggae" is no different. Shumkichi (talk) 16:20, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
- The standard should be added. I never denied that. But non-standard forms are added all the time. Vininn126 (talk) 16:22, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
- So at least move it to "reggae'owy", pls, and I'll try to never look at it again. "Reggaeowy" violates not only phonological rules but also orthographic ones. I don't have time to argue about such trivial matters today anyway.Shumkichi (talk) 16:28, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
- It'll probably end up getting "non-standard spelling of", since the majority would probably do it as you said, but there's still some that don't. Vininn126 (talk) 16:32, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
- So at least move it to "reggae'owy", pls, and I'll try to never look at it again. "Reggaeowy" violates not only phonological rules but also orthographic ones. I don't have time to argue about such trivial matters today anyway.Shumkichi (talk) 16:28, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
- The standard should be added. I never denied that. But non-standard forms are added all the time. Vininn126 (talk) 16:22, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
- It IS prescriptive if you ignore the opinion of the MAJORITY. Who cares if some ppl use it (I'm pretty sure on the Internet only), they shouldn't be our point of reference. Ok, @Tashi, what would be the adjective of "ska"? "skowy"? Of course not. "reggae" is no different. Shumkichi (talk) 16:20, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
- it's not prescriptive if I'm just saying how they use it. That said, CFI is CFI. If it is something on the internet we might want to add it. Vininn126 (talk) 16:12, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
- But, as I said, if the native speakers felt the need to use a relational adjective, they would simply use it. But native speakers instinctively know that it would violate some phonological rules so they use the noun itself as a postpositive adjective, cf. "muzyka reggae", "piosenka reggae". Just because it can be found on the Internet, it doesn't mean that we should add it. Ironically, that's a rather prescriptive way of thinking: you disregard how a vast majority of people use their native language. Shumkichi (talk) 16:09, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
- It might be non-standard, I was able to pull up results without the apostrophe. If it's attestable it's attestable. I wouldn't be surprised if reggae'owy had more results Vininn126 (talk) 16:04, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
- SJP is created by random users I think, no serious person would use it as a reference work. The word is unattestable + not comparable to native words and fully adapted loan words that are declineable (e.g. "łuska" + "-owy" = "łuskowy" - yes, the last vowel is deleted but it's because it's a fully declineable noun, and that's how Polish morphology works). With phonetically unadapted borrowings like "reggae", "attaché", or even "ska", the irregular vowel that's not found in native neuter nouns is an inseparable part of these nouns, that's what makes them unique. The final vowel in "reggae" for a NEUTER noun (the gender is important here) simply makes it impossible for us to delete it and create even "reggae'owy" out of it, with the regular pronunciation of /regovy/. We could do it if the noun was pronounced e.g. "rega" and was feminine. Delete delete delete raus raus raus! Shumkichi (talk) 15:58, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
- @Shumkichi, Tashi I have cited reggaeowy, and marked it as a rare, nonstandard alternative spelling, which seems to match reality. All the standard content was moved to reggae'owy, which also has citations. Looking for various forms of both on NKJP, reggae'owy does truly seem to be more common by a wide margin, and as such, reggaeowy has been marked as the alternative form (and also rare at that, it wasn't easy to cite).
- RFD Passed Vininn126 (talk) 11:07, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
- Fine with me. I realize it's probably the lesser of two evils. Thanks Vininn! Tashi (talk) 11:11, 9 March 2022 (UTC)