Talk:Brennschluss

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Latest comment: 12 years ago by 72.235.12.12 in topic Tea room discussion
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Tea room discussion

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Note: the below discussion was moved from the Wiktionary:Tea room.

As an English word, ought this not be spelled with a lower case 'b'? Compare with Weltanschauung/weltanschauung. __meco 10:33, 8 March 2009 (UTC)Reply

  • When I entered this, I wasn't sure whether it should be English at all. Except that the quote I had was from a novel in English, in which the word has some importance (always used with a capital B). And from there it has become a term used sometimes in various bits of Pychonalia. Maybe it should still be a German section though, I'm not sure. Ƿidsiþ 10:48, 8 March 2009 (UTC)Reply
    • No, it should not be - the German section is at Brennschluß. Please, preserve the capitalisation, this is the sound orthography for German nouns and for nouns derived from German - cf. Schadenfreude. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 14:56, 8 March 2009 (UTC)Reply
      • Brennschluß is the old orthography. It should not be used anymore. -- Prince Kassad 15:21, 8 March 2009 (UTC)Reply
      • You are citing the German entry at Schadenfreude. The relevant entry would be schadenfreude, which is the English entry. Add to that weltanschauung as I initially presented and a rather clear pattern emerges which dictates that the English entry for the word we are discussing should be at brennschluss. __meco 12:30, 9 March 2009 (UTC)Reply
        • Yes, but it needs to be established that brennschluss is properly a loanword in English. The Pynchon reference does not do this, as it emphasises that it is a German word (including capitalisation). The Wikipedia page mentions a Heinlein novel, but appears to overhype its usage there. Wikipedia also refers to a NASA glossary, which includes brennschluss, uncapitalised. Pingku 16:50, 9 March 2009 (UTC)Reply
          •  
            • "The brennschluss time is, arguably, one of the main controlling parameters on flame dynamics — if the brennschluss time is very short […]" — →ISBN pp. 95
            • "Notice how the velocity tails off in the interfals between the ignition of the various steps. Brenschlusss at 25½ seconds." — Rockets, Missiles, and Space Travel, Willy Ley, Viking Press, 1957. pp. 223
            • "In rocketry, Brennschluss has two implications, but the same basic meaning. The first implies that the driving fuels are all expended […]" — Air Pictorial and Air Reserve Gazette, Rolls House, 1951.
          • On the matter of loaning, particularly, this quotation seems particularly apt:
            • "The German language has also contributed such words as blitz, brennschluss, immelmann, lufbery, and strafe. For the most part, borrowing from foreign aviation terminology occurred prior to World War II." — The Special Vocabulary of the United States Air Force, George Lloyd Rule, Stanford University, 1957.
          • So, are you prepared to accept running English prose and to take the word of an 1957 M.A. thesis? ☺ Uncle G 00:44, 10 March 2009 (UTC)Reply
              • Looks fine to me. With the (especially lower case) cites it appears verified in a technical/jargon (aeronautics?) sense. The NASA ref might confirm it is still current. Pingku 16:11, 10 March 2009 (UTC)Reply

To define brennschluss as "[t]he moment in the trajectory of a rocket when the fuel burns out, after which it continues with its own momentum for some distance and then begins to succumb to gravity" suggests three distinct phases of a rocket's flight: (1) thrust-dominated, (2) momentum-dominated, and (3) gravity-dominated. From a physical standpoint, this is incorrect. While thrust is usually applied only during the initial stages, momentum and gravity are relevant throughout a rocket's trajectory. Momentum carries the rocket forward at every instant of its flight. Moreover, a rocket does not "succumb to gravity" (eg, after reaching apogee); from a Newtonian point of view, gravity is constantly changing the rocket's momentum.

I suggest defining "brennschluss" as the instant when a rocket transitions from powered to unpowered flight. During the powered phase, a rocket accelerates under its own thrust; subsequently, it follows an essentially ballistic trajectory, possibly modified by aerodynamic forces.

72.235.12.12 06:13, 26 November 2011 (UTC) (Joshua E. Barnes, Honolulu, Hawaii)Reply