Talk:thrifty

RFV discussion: May 2022–January 2023

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thrifty

Rfv-sense:

• (obsolete) Secured by thrift; well husbanded.
• Having a pleasant appearance; looking or being in good condition.

OED gives only a Shakespeare cite for the first one (what does that gloss even mean?) and lacks the second sense. Webster 1913 marks the second sense as "Obs." and gives a Chaucer quote, which is placed by OED under a sense "Respectable, decent, becoming, proper" that has only Middle English evidence. This, that and the other (talk) 04:31, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

It seems exceedingly hard to find citations that definitively use one of these two sense. Senses 2 and 5 ('thriving' and 'having a pleasant appearance') can be hard to distinguish; likewise for senses 3 and 4 when applied to an animal ('well-husbanded' and 'growing rapidly'). In a surprising number of texts, a beautiful, thriving and frugal woman is called thrifty! Nevertheless I've found a quote for the first that may match the gloss given. It's been added to the page. I've found more success looking for thriftie and thrifty than the standard spelling.

The fifth sense seems to have been grandfathered into the OED directly from Johnson's dictionary, Shakespeare quote and all.

One quote that may match the second is from Johnson's Cynthia's Revels, III. iv:

Nor can my weak imperfect memory
Now render half the forms unto my tongue,
That were convolved within this thrifty room.

The OED lists this as the only quote for its even more obscure sense 4.c, marked obsolete and transferred.

Winthrop23 (talk) 11:29, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

In context the quote from Cynthia's Revels can't mean "good-looking", since the decor is described slightly further up as "the strangest pageant" and "diffused" (i.e. "irregular, careless" as one critical edition glosses it). The OED's take, which is also marked doubtful, that it essentially means "small" could be right, but my hunch is that it just means a lot of stuff has been packed into the room (they can't remember "half the forms ... convolved [i.e. brought together] within" it), and is a slight extension of the "thriving" etc. sense. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 21:44, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

I believe I have cited the first of the two challenged senses (secured by thrift), and have added one for the second. Kiwima (talk) 11:56, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Can we have a better gloss for sense 4? I'm not totally sure I understand what this sense means. This, that and the other (talk) 05:16, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

"Husband" in this context means "administer frugally", see husband. So, instead of something that evinces thrift, it means that something has been/is being carefully conserved by thrifty management. I've rewritten the gloss to "preserved by thrift; carefully managed".

I don't think the "church thrifty, the soul thrifty, graces thrifty" citation that Kiwima added is correctly categorised, I believe it should just be interpreted as "thriving". It makes no sense to talk about graces, in this theological sense, having a pleasant appearance or condition, but they can certainly thrive ("O make my languid graces thrive" [1]), as can churches and souls. At the same time, I don't see any reason for the "thriving" gloss to be split into separate subsenses for people and animals as Webster's did: it's often applied to things like towns as well. In any case, I went through the hits on EEBO for "thrifty", "thriftie" etc. and couldn't find any evidence of the "good-looking" sense. 1 passed, 2 failed. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 21:02, 5 January 2023 (UTC)