Appendix talk:Hungarian pronunciation assimilation

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This appendix serves the following purposes:

  1. Provide learners with ready examples of assimilation.
  2. Instruct Hungarian IPA content providers with a ready reference of this phenomena.
  3. Provide an easy checklist that Hungarian IPA entries are accurate (if this appendix is updated by bot).

Automation via Bot[edit]

  1. Scan Hungarian page changes.
  2. If an IPA entry is found, check for one of the assimilation pairs.
  3. If found, add the term to this appendix.

döfve[edit]

I'm wondering if fv assimilates to a long v. (It's not discussed on this page.) I don't really think so. I say döfve differently than "dövve". Any other examples of f followed by v? Qorilla (talk) 16:24, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

I've found the following interesting information on p46 of Lanstyák István: A MAGYAR BESZÉLT NYELV SAJÁTOSSÁGAI:
"Rendhagyó módon viselkedik a v, amely alapvetően zörejhangnak minősül, mégis felemás módon vesz részt a zöngésségi hasonulásban: maga zöngétlenedik ugyan, de az előtte álló mássalhangzót a köznyelvben és a legtöbb nyelvjárásban nem zöngésíti.
tévtanítás [téftanítás], szívtől [szíftől], révkalauz [réfkalauz], évhez [éfhez],
de ötven [ötven], nem pedig *[ödven]"
So that explains that döfve is [döfve] and not *[dövve]. --Panda10 (talk) 17:20, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

-ndny-, -ndm-...[edit]

mindnyájan assimilates to miɲːaːjɒn. I'm wondering if it's the case in every nasal + (d or t) + nasal cluster. But it seems a bit ambiguous. What's up with mindmáig, I say it a bit contracted, but not fully like "mimmáig", but it also depends on speed. Other example: mindnél. Similar to minnél, but not fully. Is pontnál "ponnál"? This is a small peculiarity. Otherwise I can reproduce all effects in this page from my script. Qorilla (talk) 18:29, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

From the same document:
"Szóbelseji torlódások vagy idegen tőszavakban vannak jelen, vagy pedig magyar toldalékolt és összetett szavakban, ill. szókapcsolatokban. A t és a d különösen hajlamos a törlésre.
mindnyájan [miɲːaːjɒn]
majdnem [mɒjnɛm]
testsúly [tɛʃːuːj]"
As you said, it depends on speed. As for the other examples, I'd say mindmáig [minmaːʲig]. I agree: mindnél and pontnál there is a subtle stop after the first n, but the d and t are not fully pronounced. --Panda10 (talk) 18:48, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

-gys-[edit]

I (and Wikipedia) think that "egység" becomes /ˈɛt͡ʃːeːɡ/, just like ramatyság is /ˈrɒmɒt͡ʃːaːɡ/ and négyszer is /ˈneːt͡sːɛr/ etc. Why do you think that it's not so? Qorilla (talk) 18:38, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

From the same document:
lágyság [látyság] > [láccság]
irigység [iritység] > [iriccség]
nagyság [natyság] > [naccság]
hegység [hetység] > [heccség]
nem hagy sokat [haty sokat] > [hacs csokat]
I never pronounce it as /ˈɛt͡ʃːeːɡ/. If you look at the small table with the voiced and unvoiced pairs, you'll see that gy assimilates to ty. I think if the speach is very fast (and perhaps a little careless), it may sound as /ˈɛt͡ʃːeːɡ/, but if you want to pronounce it nicely, it is /ˈɛcʃeːɡ/. --Panda10 (talk) 19:01, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, there is a continuum between the two extremes, depending on speed and formal vs. informal context. I'm fine with either in the entries. Qorilla (talk) 19:40, 28 September 2014 (UTC)