Talk:عروس

عروس

This word's root is from Persian verb آراستن (to decorate). The verb exists in Middle Persian. Its pronunciation in Mazanadrani dialect conserves the original long 'a' (آراس bride). Also the diminutive عروسک (doll) uses the usual Persian diminutive form. Wiktalia (talk) 08:27, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

It is unlikely. Eclipsing native Iranic words -in written Persian, not dialectal Persian- concerning familial ties and relatives, isn't rare after Islamicization of Iran. Perso-Arabic term (عَمو) eclipsed native New Persian term "اَپْدَر" or "اَفْدَر". Perso-Arabic word "عَمِّه" eclipsed native New Persian term "توریا". Perso-Arabic term "اجداد" nearly but imperfectly eclipsed native New Persian "نیاکان". Or "خاله" eclipsing dialectal but dominant native New Persian word "دایِزِه". Of course these were confined to the written language and perhaps were imported into common people's speech, by theologists and clerics. There is a high possibility that Mazandarani "آراس" is either rooted from "آراستن" or the similarity has led to the reinforcement of its usage , to say the least. In Lori/Kurdish-oid dialects of Persian, the term for paternal uncle ,it's "تاتَه"‌ of unknown origin. In Northern Lori dialect of Persian, the term for paternal aunt is "کِچی" and so forth. Plus I think that usage of the Perso-Arabic word "عَروس", is definitely reinforced and promoted by Middle Persian and Classical Persian word "alus, alūs" or dialectal Persian (L>r) word "arūs or alūs" all meaning "white", though a colleague of mine deems it very far-fetched. Alireza9992 (talk) 15:27, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

@Alireza9992: You have still not explained how the meaning “white” has anything to do with brides or bridegrooms or weddings in general; and الوس (alūs) does not even appear to be a common word for white, so a mental connection is even less likely. Nobody denies that a native Iranian word has been eclipsed, but the connection to this particular word family “white”. That Mazanderani word and the other words have little do with the topic, the similarity is most likely a coincidence – coincidences constantly happen. The rest what you say has little coherence or discernible relevancy.

I stress also that you should look how other people code their entries, else you will also reverted because the mere formatting of your edits is insufferable and it would take too long to fix it.

And for all, if you or somebody else try to claim the Arabic word or root as borrowed from Iranian, this must be dismissed forthwith. The root is also found in other Semitic languages, e.g. Akkadian [script needed] (ērišu, “a person asking favours; bridegroom”), related to more general meanings of the root “to request”, as in [script needed] (erištu, “wish, request, desire etc.”), [script needed] (erēšu, “to request, to demand”), clearly a root inherited from Proto-Semitic, that is present before Iranians existed. Fay Freak (talk) 17:21, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Don't be angry. I didn't say عروس is of Iranian origin. Plus, I don't think it existed before Indo-Iranian-speaking people existed. Afro-asiatic languages are ancient and attested, due to the fact that Egyptians were perhaps the first humans who wrote down, but Semetic people aren't more ancient that Indo-Iranian speaking people, I only say to clarify. You pointed out that Mazandarani example is a coincidence, I am aware of that and I said probably; I am not that newbie. It's been common word during New Persian period (from Arab conquest till 600 hundred years later, when we have Ferdowsi), and I mentioned that. As for the rest, I am convinced by because, white gown as typically worn by brides is probably a Western importation. You are right, I should have also considered the cultural context, that the supposed dynamic had presumably happened. Again, thanks. Alireza9992 (talk) 19:48, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

i mean that* Alireza9992 (talk) 19:49, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

I mean word arūs, alūs, have been common in New Persian ( from Arab conquest untill 500 or so years) as opposed to Modern Persian (from after Mongol invasion, when New Persian became further Turkified and Arabicized). Alireza9992 (talk) 19:52, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

I can't believe you know so many languages, are you an immigrant?. Alireza9992 (talk) 19:54, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Claiming an Arabic word?; You think, that I see Persian as a Semetic language, though I admire the word morphology, Koine Greek and German et all are perhaps more potent, but Arabic can borrow trilitteral root words and then put it in templates that is cool, but the aforementioned Indo-europian languages are more self-sufficient in that regard. Alireza9992 (talk) 19:58, 21 December 2020 (UTC)