Talk:काय

@Kutchkutch Hi, can you check the usex that I added? Also, तुझं (tujha) is pronounced /t̪ud͡zə/, right? —Aryaman ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 01:56, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

@Aryamanarora: Thanks for asking! The Devanagari is fine. I fixed the transliteration. Since झ is aspirated (more scientifically 'breathy voiced') so 'h' should follow 'j̈'. 'N' could be there, but I prefer to use it only word-medially. As for IPA, you were very close. It should be /t̪ud͡zʱə/ phonemically with ʱ to represent the 'aspiration'. Marathi phonology says [d͡zʱ]~[zʱ], which I think means that it fluctuates between the two in actual speech and either of the two could be used in a phonetic transcription.

The 'gentler' way of saying the usex would have आहे or its abbreviation (clitic?) ए followng काय, but the way you've written the sentence is also fine. It's just more direct or abrupt as a Zero copula, which you explained using {{q|informal}}. Kutchkutch (talk) 02:38, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

@Kutchkutch: Thanks! I don't know why I forgot the aspiration lol. Perhaps MOD:mr-translit should transliterate ं (ṁ) as "a" word-finally; it seems to stop schwa dropping from happening. A question: word-medially does it just nasalize like Hindi? —Aryaman ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 13:15, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

@Aryamanarora: Yes, I agree MOD:mr-translit should transliterate ं (ṁ) as "a" word-finally and it doesn't always do the schwa-dropping correctly. The current transliteration without these changes makes it look more like Sanskrit. Even though Marathi has been 'Sanskritised', it's not 'Sanskritised' in that way. Schwa-dropping does occur, and it may follow Hindi's schwa dropping rules in most cases.

As for the 'N' in transliteration, this is the same phenomenon that I tried describing earlier at Module:mr-translit/testcases and Module_talk:mr-translit/testcases#Anusv.C4.81ra. I've come to a different conclusion now. Anusvara before र, श, ष, स, य, ल, व word-medially used to indicate phonemic nasalisation historically, and the rules I found there reflect the historical nasalised pronunciation. Today, the phonemic nasalisation has been lost, and some of those anusvaras have been deleted from orthography and pronunciation. For those anusvaras that remain, some speakers nasalise the anusvara according to those rules and others just it pronounce closer to a consonant/glide. So I just transliterate it as 'N' to indicate that there's some nasal there. Whether the nasal is realised with the historic nasalisation or closer to a consonant/glide is undeterminable by rules. Simply using 'n' in the transliteration ignores that there is something different about those cases. Kutchkutch (talk) 04:53, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

@Aryamanarora For anusvara before र, श, ष, स, य, ल, व, I found some clarification in the second note of Chapter 2 of Dhongde & Wali. Anusvara before र, ल, व is 'u', and anusvara before य is 'i' with no nasalisation on the 'u' or 'i'. The lack of any mention about anusvara before श, ष, स suggests it is the default 'n'. This reasoning makes sense. Words with anusvara before र, य, ल, व could only be Sanskritised borrowings so I think I'll add ['य'] = 'इ', ['र'] = 'उ', ['ल'] = 'उ', ['व'] = 'उ', to the local nasal_assim expression list of MOD:mr-translit. (This would be my first ever edit to a module.) Kutchkutch (talk) 04:55, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Anusvaras word-medially before other consonants become homorganic just like Hindi (क-घ:ङ, च-झ:ञ, ट-ढ:ण, त-ध:न, प-भ:म) The exceptions to this are 'ċ' (e.g. उंच (unċa)) and j̈/j̈h (if I find examples), where anusvara is 'n'.

Anusvara word-finally is a relatively recent change where it was originally ए in neuter words or in the -णे infinitive marker for verbs, and the ए is now colloquially pronounced ə and written as ं. Kutchkutch (talk) 21:41, 31 October 2017 (UTC)