Talk:囝兒
Latest comment: 4 years ago by Mlgc1998 in topic Philippine Hokkien
Philippine Hokkien[edit]
@Mlgc1998, Mar vin kaiser I thought it would be káⁿ-lî in Philippine Hokkien. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 19:04, 9 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Justinrleung: I was asking my dad awhile ago and he kept saying it was kiáⁿ-lî, then I said was it ever káⁿ-lî? Then, he kept on saying it was kiáⁿ-lî. My dad's originally from 南安, though I think 囝 being pronounced as káⁿ is something my mom would do more, but her side is from 晉江.--Mlgc1998 (talk) 19:13, 9 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Mlgc1998: Hmm, I think we usually go with whatever's more common in the Philippines, which seems to be closer to Jinjiang. Also, it should be the speech of at least 2nd gen cuz people could be retaining their accent from before immigration. Defining "Philippine Hokkien" is a little trickier than I thought. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 19:25, 9 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Justinrleung: The second gen/third gen thing is kinda blurry for my family, since technically my parents are first gen since they were born in Hong kong from parents that originally came from 晉江 and 南安, but then they moved to Manila in either their elementary or early high school years by connections from other relatives who were already in the Philippines long ago, so I also still have one branch of cousins in Hong kong, and another branch of cousins who are from Northern Samar province, which if you see them, they're a bit more culturally filipino-sided and might not look as chinese. Me and my siblings were raised in-line with how other 3rd-gen fil-chi kids were raised, that is mostly speaking english and filipino, while comprehending the hokkien we hear, while some of us do the occassional hokaglish, especially my elder siblings. I think I would describe myself as more culturally third-gen, while my parents and grandparents as probably culturally first-gen, while my younger uncle/aunt that were born here and elder sister is probably culturally 2nd-gen, since they can comfortably do hokkien conversations when they want to. It's weird sometimes too, when I asked my fil-chi friend from Cebu (3rd-gen with grandfather from 晉江) awhile ago what he thought of 山候, he said his mother defined the word to mean something like coward. There are words too that are pronounced differently with my cousin's families. My dad usually pronounces everything that's usually with "li-" into "di-", except for 日本 which he pronounces as "Li̍t-pún", but when I told this to my cousin, he said his dad pronounced it as "Di̍p-pún".--Mlgc1998 (talk) 19:53, 9 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Mlgc1998: I don't want to dismiss your contributions or the realities in your family, but I'm not sure how we can document Philippine Hokkien more systematically here in Wiktionary. Perhaps we can allow this variability, like for Singaporean Hokkien, but I'd like to get more input from Mar vin kaiser, who seems to be more proficient in Hokkien than you. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 19:58, 9 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Justinrleung: Yeah, I know, I'm just telling the realities of where I'm coming from and that it's really going to be varied between which terms people usually use here, since it is a sparse non-standard dialect, that's usually only spoken by the first or second gen people. Most people in my generation usually aren't interested in this dialect, so they'd rather forget about it since it's usually seen as old and uncool. I don't know what Mar vin kaiser's background is but I trust he can probably give more certain stuff since he seems like its probably really his thing. I'm not sure if he's the same guy I saw in facebook before that's supposedly writing some sort of research paper on this, but I'm thinking maybe he was that guy. I'm mostly here as a hobby since currently for the past weeks or months I have a lot of time and interest I can give this, especially with being deep in the fil-chi community that I've encountered so far, since I'm from a fil-chi school, church, and have encountered fil-chi classmates and friends from different provinces. It's a big country and I wager it's going to be like this for someone from Indonesia and Myanmar as well, since I know they too have an undocumented hokkien that's hidden there somewhere besides the random online commenter who might talk about it. --Mlgc1998 (talk) 20:26, 9 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Mlgc1998: I don't want to dismiss your contributions or the realities in your family, but I'm not sure how we can document Philippine Hokkien more systematically here in Wiktionary. Perhaps we can allow this variability, like for Singaporean Hokkien, but I'd like to get more input from Mar vin kaiser, who seems to be more proficient in Hokkien than you. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 19:58, 9 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Justinrleung: The second gen/third gen thing is kinda blurry for my family, since technically my parents are first gen since they were born in Hong kong from parents that originally came from 晉江 and 南安, but then they moved to Manila in either their elementary or early high school years by connections from other relatives who were already in the Philippines long ago, so I also still have one branch of cousins in Hong kong, and another branch of cousins who are from Northern Samar province, which if you see them, they're a bit more culturally filipino-sided and might not look as chinese. Me and my siblings were raised in-line with how other 3rd-gen fil-chi kids were raised, that is mostly speaking english and filipino, while comprehending the hokkien we hear, while some of us do the occassional hokaglish, especially my elder siblings. I think I would describe myself as more culturally third-gen, while my parents and grandparents as probably culturally first-gen, while my younger uncle/aunt that were born here and elder sister is probably culturally 2nd-gen, since they can comfortably do hokkien conversations when they want to. It's weird sometimes too, when I asked my fil-chi friend from Cebu (3rd-gen with grandfather from 晉江) awhile ago what he thought of 山候, he said his mother defined the word to mean something like coward. There are words too that are pronounced differently with my cousin's families. My dad usually pronounces everything that's usually with "li-" into "di-", except for 日本 which he pronounces as "Li̍t-pún", but when I told this to my cousin, he said his dad pronounced it as "Di̍p-pún".--Mlgc1998 (talk) 19:53, 9 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Mlgc1998: Hmm, I think we usually go with whatever's more common in the Philippines, which seems to be closer to Jinjiang. Also, it should be the speech of at least 2nd gen cuz people could be retaining their accent from before immigration. Defining "Philippine Hokkien" is a little trickier than I thought. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 19:25, 9 November 2019 (UTC)